Iso high leg delta offgrid inverter.

[wild01]

Title says it all. I'm looking for a single inverter or stack of inverters capable of putting our high leg delta. 120/240/208 preferably a all in one setup. I already have a 415 3p system on my shop, but I'm constantly having co-workers hit me up to help them design a system. We are all in heavy industry so 3p power is desired. Does anyone know of a system capable? Like can 2 lv6548s be stacked with a 5048mg (probably take a custom firmware to makeit happen) anyway does anyone know of a system capable of this?

 

[HighTechLab]

Only 3 phase inverters that I know of do 120/208Y

My neighbor has high leg delta grid power, he also faces the issue that there are no backup inverters that can run all three phases. Sol-ark flat-out said they cannot be used on the system other than 120-n-120 on A&C Phase. Sol-ark requires grounded neutral, which is a shame because if they didn't, it could at least create an open delta....

 

[wild01]

3 mg5048s can be stacked @ 380-415 3p (415 3p 60hz runs my 460v equipment ok) that's what I did in my shop, but I still needed an lv5048 for 120 240 split. Looking for simpler solution.

 

[wild01]

Maybe it's more complicated than I'm seeing but it seems like a 120/240 split phase system could be paralleled to a 208 inverter 120 degrees out of phase and bingo 240 high leg delta. Seems like it would just take a firmware change. Wonder how many I'd have to buy to get voltronic to make them. I bet they'd sell like crazy.

 

[wild01]

Damn still no responses must not exist

 

[Supervstech]

I was under the impression the euro inverters could be connected this way, I will check my manual and see.

 

[Supervstech]

Delta high leg shouldn’t be 240 though, it should be 185 or so…

 

[wild01]

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...egs-120v-output-rpc-system-delta-high-leg.jpg delta high leg CANbe any number of voltages, I'm specifically looking for this standard.

 

[Supervstech]

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...egs-120v-output-rpc-system-delta-high-leg.jpg delta high leg CANbe any number of voltages, I'm specifically looking for this standard.

Sorry, I meant to ground…

 

[wild01]

Yes according to every diagram I've seen its 208 to ground. Not sure how the math works on this but that what i always see. I'm much more interested in having 240 3p and 120/240 split phase on the same system.

 

[wild01]

Yep colorado to be specific. I want to be able to run standard split phase equipment in the same system that can also use surplus 3p equipment that can often times be picked up cheap because most people don't have 3p at home.

 

[Hedges]

I think high-leg delta would be 240V delta, no 208 unless you use transformers to get it.

You could get 120/208Y from inverter(s) and use a transformer to turn one 120V into 120/240V split-phase. So long as the inverter works OK with imbalanced loads.
Could use three such transformers, distribute three different 120/240V branches to different buildings.

3x Sunny Island will give you 120/208Y, 18kW total and 6kW on each phase (so usable for split-phase.

SMA has European model battery inverters that do 230/400Y. That wouldn't be stinger or give you a center tap, so transformers again.

If you do AC coupling of PV inverters, there will be some interesting issues with phase imbalance and frequency shift power control (frequency-watts.) I think it will be limited to PV wattage equals Sunny Island wattage rather than PV up to double, because unloaded phases will need to suck down the extra power to battery.

 

[Tecnodave]

Delta high leg shouldn’t be 240 though, it should be 185 or so…

You are absolute right, I getting that he is trying to tie into 120/240 utility service and output 120/240 delta hi leg in a home.......not even going to touch that one. read his posts again and you might see what i did, that is why i deleted my posts

 

[Hedges]

You are absolute right, I getting that he is trying to tie into 120/240 utility service and output 120/240 delta hi leg in a home.......not even going to touch that one. read his posts again and you might see what i did, that is why i deleted my posts

With 3x Sunny Island, you can take in 120V up to 56A (connected to one inverter) and the other two will make the other two legs of 3-phase 120/208Y. AC coupled PV would have to be limited to 6.7 kW, the max one inverter could feed back to the grid.

Alternatively, could use a 240V input, 120/208Y output VFD to run the 3-phase shop tools. That's what I have for my pool pump.

 

[Tecnodave]

With 3x Sunny Island, you can take in 120V up to 56A (connected to one inverter) and the other two will make the other two legs of 3-phase 120/208Y. AC coupled PV would have to be limited to 6.7 kW, the max one inverter could feed back to the grid.

Alternatively, could use a 240V input, 120/208Y output VFD to run the 3-phase shop tools. That's what I have for my pool pump.

I did know that about sunny boy, new info. I see VFD a lot, farm , commercial and home, many home water pumps are now VFD.
He was talking about china inverters, something that i would rather not touch, including doing it as cheaply as possible

 

[Tecnodave]

I meant to say....I did NOT know that about sunny boy......typing error, thanks for that info

 

[wild01]

You are absolute right, I getting that he is trying to tie into 120/240 utility service and output 120/240 delta hi leg in a home.......not even going to touch that one. read his posts again and you might see what i did, that is why i deleted my posts

Tie into utility service??? Delta in a home???? NO! I'm looking for an offgrid battery based high leg delta setup for a rural home/SHOP environment. Ie split phase to the home split and 3phase in the shop.

As far as the comments on Chinese inverters, they are the only setup I've seen capable of 3p other than 208y which is less than useful imo because almost nothing in industry runs on 208y. In so far as that goes, what inverters AREN'T Chinese at this point. I have an outback system a Schneider system a sunny island system and 3 mppsolar systems. Only the sunny island isn't made in China. The reason i brought up voltronic is because they are the only manufacturer I've come across that readily supports 3p.

 

[wild01]

Btw when I say home shop... This is my shop

 

[Supervstech]

I have seen home main panels
With 240Delta hot leg...

 

[Hedges]

As far as the comments on Chinese inverters, they are the only setup I've seen capable of 3p other than 208y which is less than useful imo because almost nothing in industry runs on 208y. In so far as that goes, what inverters AREN'T Chinese at this point. I have an outback system a Schneider system a sunny island system and 3 mppsolar systems. Only the sunny island isn't made in China. The reason i brought up voltronic is because they are the only manufacturer I've come across that readily supports 3p.

Victron can do 3-phase

Parallel, split- and three-phase VE.Bus systems [Victron Energy]

www.victronenergy.com

European model SMA Sunny Island is 230V, can do 230/400Y. You would run 3-phase "Y" directly to shop, transformer to establish split-phase.
Sunny Tripower Storage same voltage, AC voltage range 360 V to 530 V. Note it uses high-voltage lithium battery.

Battery Inverters | SMA Solar

The Sunny Islands offer you first class possibilities in the installation of self-sufficient energy systems. In conjunction with a battery pack the devices form a self-sufficient AC voltage grid, which meets with the highest of quality standards.

www.sma.de

SMA has bigger battery inverters too. (But between 20 kW and 1 MW, only that European model.)

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SCSXXXXUP-US-DS-en-23.pdf

Unless you do a Sunny Island cluster, for up to 100 kW

Multicluster Box for Sunny Island 4548-US and 6048-US | SMA America

Multicluster Box for SUNNY ISLAND 4548-US and 6048-US

www.sma-america.com

Their TriPower PV inverters are higher voltage, can be AC coupled with Sunny Island but require a transformer.

Discover Sunny Tripower CORE1 String Inverter | SMA America

Discover the world's first free-standing string inverter: Sunny Tripower CORE1 ► Faster installation ► Rapid shutdown compliance ► SMA Shadefix

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Instead of 120/240 single-phase for household loads, you can use two legs of 120/208Y. That's common for apartment/condo in the US. Then you don't need isolation transformer. Boosting 120/208Y to 230/400Y could be done with auto-transformer, half as much iron as isolation.