Leaking Electrolyte from Bigbattery Powerblock

[solarbot]

Did he mean external leaking? Or was he referring to internal leakage caused from delamination of the jelly roll. Could it be he meant internal current leakage? I think that needs to be clarified.

The whole statement is pretty slim pickings, information wise. Really does not sound like an engineer speaking.

Not a single person on this forum has reported gas leakage, or any kind of other leakage for that matter, due to a bloated cell. It's possible it happened and wasn't noticed. But if a cell vents would it not be obvious from the smell that follows?

Good point.

And now I see what you meant by "properly sealed valve will not leak". You mean a valve that only vents under catastrophic pressure. Whereas I imagined a vent that vents under conditions typical of heavy charge/discharge. As you point out, my model might not pass the "smell test".

How can you tell whether or not the actual vent is plastic or welded? All the cells I have seen have vent covers and I believe it's more for cosmetic reasons than anything else and possibly an indicator of venting. But do any of these types of cells use a plastic vent? I don't know.

You're right, I can't tell how the vent is constructed. This page has an exploded diagram that might be somewhat relevant. The safety valve looks like a piece of plastic with a slit in it but there's no way to know for sure from just that.

Another detail, the seal gaskets around the terminals. Imperfect seal maybe?

 

[Will Prowse]

Comment now unpinned, so harder to find. You're not kidding, Bigbattery's response is beyond tone deaf, that's being charitable. Also does Will know he is a "business partner" according to Bigbattery?

I am an affiliate of big battery. No sponsorship contracts or NDA's.

I am enrolled with every affiliate program I can be a part of. It is up to the manufacturer to produce a product that will actually impress my viewers. And me.

My affiliate sales with them have dropped significantly ever since I had this leaking cell issue. They also had improper low charging temp protection threshold on their first models, and their BYD packs were mislabeled last year.

If they did not have so many problems, more people would buy their batteries. I am thinking they will get these problems sorted out, but who knows. I am checking my email inbox and our forum daily to see if people have issues with their packs. Only time will tell if I can recommend them.

 

[Will Prowse]

And about the leaking cells. I will keep my cells vertical regardless of what the manufacturers recommend. It seems like half the cell manufacturers recommend doing it, and the other half forget to mention it. So I am going to lean on the side of caution and keep my cells upright.

 

[Will Prowse]

Did he mean external leaking? Or was he referring to internal leakage caused from delamination of the jelly roll. Could it be he meant internal current leakage? I think that needs to be clarified.

Seems to me if the cells are clamped to prevent expansion the chances of the cell leaking would be greater since the PSI increases within the cell. It's my understanding compression is to prevent delamination of the jelly roll. EVE also stated it's ok to mount the cells on their side and I believe I have reposted EVE's response in this thread.


Not a single person on this forum has reported gas leakage, or any kind of other leakage for that matter, due to a bloated cell. It's possible it happened and wasn't noticed. But if a cell vents would it not be obvious from the smell that follows?


How can you tell whether or not the actual vent is plastic or welded? All the cells I have seen have vent covers and I believe it's more for cosmetic reasons than anything else and possibly an indicator of venting. But do any of these types of cells use a plastic vent? I don't know.


The resealable vent they are referring to apply to the cylindrical cells they mention.

I want to add and make clear I am not advocating for mounting cells on their side. I had thought about it but decided before all this leaky stuff came up to keep them upright. I would like to get the facts of what is happening with these Lishen 170ah cells. Not for my sake, but for the sake of others. I am a very skeptical type of guy having learned some lessons the hard way.

I sort by latest latest comments. It's easier to find. I have no idea why Will pinned the comment then decided to unpin it.

Yup, their tone deaf response didn't sit to well with me. They first said they said it was devastating and then backtracked to calling the leakage residue and went on to say they would never send out a product that way.

Maybe they look at Will as being a business partner because Will has brought them many customers. Who knows? Maybe Will is doing some kind of business with them. That part doesn't bother me. The fact these cells are leaking is what is bothering me.

I unpinned the comment because the poster had no proof of leakage. And then he asked big battery why he cannot get two free batteries. If someone has proof and posts it on the forum or elsewhere, I am all ears. But there are some people that are trying to take advantage of my leaking cells by demanding free packs to replace theirs. If they have a problem with the battery, BB needs to replace it. But if there is no issue to be found, I think it is unfair to demand more packs.

The comment is still up. I hope they can provide evidence of the leakage.

I haven't brought them many customers actually. I am still pissed off about the mislabeled BYD packs, and my viewers remember. Listed for 4.5kWh-5kWh, then capacity tests showing 3kWh.

Then they messed up the low temp charging on their latest packs. The bms was not programmed correctly.

If they didn't cause all of these problems, big battery would be selling a ton of packs from me. My affiliate sales are practically nothing now.

I sold hundreds of SOK batteries and not a single issue. I use mine as a step stool. The pack works perfectly. Same with my battle borns. They do cost more, but it sure is nice to not worry about the issues that big battery packs have. They just work. Never had a single dissatisfied viewer that bought those batteries.

I won't recommend big battery packs till all issues are solved and I hear zero complaints from their customers for a few months. They want me to make a video right now, and I am refusing. They have zero control over what I post. I am waiting for a customer to have an issue with a big battery pack. If everything is silent for a few months, then I will make a new review. But I will ensure that people know the issues.

 

[Will Prowse]

If someone reports leakage or any issue with these packs, I will make a video about it. Please tag me if you guys find any proof of another leaking pack. But I need actual video/photo evidence.

 

[Gazoo]

If someone reports leakage or any issue with these packs, I will make a video about it. Please tag me if you guys find any proof of another leaking pack. But I need actual video/photo evidence.

I am surprised no one has replied to Seth's comment. Do you think it would be wise for you to contact him and ask for the photos he sent to Big Battery? Or to refer him to this thread so he can interact here? If he refuses then it would be a good indication he was trying to pull a fast one to get a free battery.

Hopefully people will not be left in the dark regarding his situation. I agree his request for a free battery was over the top even if his cell(s) are actually leaking.

Also if I was you, I would make it very clear to Big Battery not to refer to you as a business partner and remind them you are an affiliate.

 

[Will Prowse]

I just checked the post and he added to it:

I am commenting back asking him to post pictures on the forum right now.

Edit: my response. I hope he will post pictures or video:

 

[Will Prowse]

And affiliate is a form of business partnership. I also have to claim that my video content is "sponsored" because I get half of my products for free these days. So technically, I am a business partner, and that is why they sent them out for free.

 

[Gazoo]

Edit: my response. I hope he will post pictures or video:

Perfect. Thank you!

 

[SethRR]

I just checked the post and he added to it:
View attachment 39708
I am commenting back asking him to post pictures on the forum right now.

Edit: my response. I hope he will post pictures or video:
View attachment 39709

Hi everyone, did not realize this chat was going on here until Will just directed me to it. I figured Noone really cared since there were no comments on my post or update on the YouTube video. Here are the pics. Some more info too, I could smell a terrible smell as soon as I opened the outer carton but was hoping it was just manufacturing odors. Once I opened the inside carton, I knew for sure it wasn't right as the smell was VERY strong. The power button would not light up and the volt meter would not turn off and was reading about 7 volts. In the pics you can see the red and white wires are so corroded that they are no longer attached. Also I am a fairs fair type of guy...the type that on several occasions when two candy bars fall out if a vending machine when I paid for one have returned the free one. I would never take advantage or exploit anyone! I simply asked that since they gave Will 2 free packs, if I could be compensated the same? Why not? I paid for the first pack and had the same issue before even getting to use it.

 

[Gazoo]

Hi everyone, did not realize this chat was going on here until Will just directed me to it. I figured Noone really cared since there were no comments on my post or update on the YouTube video.

Hi Seth, welcome to the forum. Many of us are concerned about these leaky cells. You came to the right place to discuss and I was surprised no one replied to your comment on the YouTube video.

Here are the pics. Some more info too, I could smell a terrible smell as soon as I opened the outer carton but was hoping it was just manufacturing odors. Once I opened the inside carton, I knew for sure it wasn't right as the smell was VERY strong. The power button would not light up and the volt meter would not turn off and was reading about 7 volts. In the pics you can see the red and white wires are so corroded that they are no longer attached.

Sorry that happened to you and it is concerning. No one has told us the cause and I am not so sure the source of the leak has been confirmed.

I don't see the photos. Could you please try again?

Also I am a fairs fair type of guy...the type that on several occasions when two candy bars fall out if a vending machine when I paid for one have returned the free one. I would never take advantage or exploit anyone! I simply asked that since they gave Will 2 free packs, if I could be compensated the same? Why not? I paid for the first pack and had the same issue before even getting to use it.

Some are very skeptical these days and I am one of those. I am happy you took the time to come here and set the record straight. I do think it would be a nice gesture for Big Battery offer some compensation to people who receive defective products. Especially products with leaking cells since they are dangerous and a hassle to deal with.

 

[SethRR]

Hmm, not sure where the pics went... Ill try again.

 

[SethRR]

Hi Seth, welcome to the forum. Many of us are concerned about these leaky cells. You came to the right place to discuss and I was surprised no one replied to your comment on the YouTube video.


Sorry that happened to you and it is concerning. No one has told us the cause and I am not so sure the source of the leak has been confirmed.

I don't see the photos. Could you please try again?


Some are very skeptical these days and I am one of those. I am happy you took the time to come here and set the record straight. I do think it would be a nice gesture for Big Battery offer some compensation to people who receive defective products. Especially products with leaking cells since they are dangerous and a hassle to deal with.

Thank you Gazoo! I appreciate it! I do see that you are the first one to post about my youtube comments, so thanks for that too!

 

[Hedges]

I think it is clear most cells are well sealed. That's why they balloon if over-charged.
Normally, one could get away with cells on their side or edge, as approved by some manufacturers.
If a cell did vent or had a pinhole, if liquid was as high as the opening it would leak out.
I'm thinking a few cells weren't actually sealed, probably had a defect in the seal, although corroding through is a possibility.
Kept upright, you would never know unless it gave off an odor.
Perhaps it would breath and degrade more rapidly due to humidity getting inside.
With cells on their side during shipping or usage, any pressure cycles or temperature cycles could cause electrolyte to escape if level was above a hole.

 

[Gazoo]

Thank you Gazoo! I appreciate it! I do see that you are the first one to post about my youtube comments, so thanks for that too!

Actually it was @Sillyputty who brought it to our attention. So credit goes to him too. But you are welcome... One thing for sure is this is something way more serious than Big Battery's claim of it just being residue. I see the red and white wires not attached and corrosion in that area. Based on everything you have said and the photos posted it does appear as though the cells leaked.

 

[Bob B]

If it was cell leakage that caused this corrosion, then it seem the pack would have to have been upside down for the electrolyte to get up into the top like that ..... and you didn't include any pictures of the cells or the area around the cells themselves.

Something very corrosive got in there .... but almost seem like it could have come in thru the top from something outside the pack?

 

[solarbot]

Hmm, not sure where the pics went... Ill try again.

Wow, what a mess. I was wondering where the cell pics were, then realized you've got a "void the warranty" situation here. It's up to Bigbattery to do the forensics, which I sincerely hope they will, including posting photos. IMHO you are now a Bigbattery business partner... because you're on the beta test team. You deserve your free battery.

Did they use copper cables as handles, seriously?

 

[Gazoo]

With cells on their side during shipping or usage, any pressure cycles or temperature cycles could cause electrolyte to escape if level was above a hole.

It could but it should not happen. Thousands of cells purchased by DIY'ers shipped on boats in all kinds of weather and boxes and crates being abused and so on. With no reports of leaks until Will's video. I am thinking there was a defective run and QQ didn't catch it.

 

[SethRR]

Actually it was @Sillyputty who brought it to our attention. So credit goes to him too. But you are welcome... One thing for sure is this is something way more serious than Big Battery's claim of it just being residue. I see the red and white wires not attached and corrosion in that area. Based on everything you have said and the photos posted it does appear as though the cells leaked.

O right, sorry about that @Sillyputty! That's what pissed me off the most, is their response insinuating that I caused it. After I called them out on it, they backtracked and said that they "were in no way shape or form implying that" I was responsible. Well...your engineer said that he knew "for a fact" it was not like that when it shipped out (BS unless your engineer also does the packaging), and he also said that it isn't leaking and is some residue...its sealed in a box inside of a bigger box...sooo what other options are there??

 

[Hedges]

It could but it should not happen. Thousands of cells purchased by DIY'ers shipped on boats in all kinds of weather and boxes and crates being abused and so on. With no reports of leaks until Will's video. I am thinking there was a defective run and QQ didn't catch it.

At the manufacturer of the cells. QC would have to be a leak check. Standard part of hermetic IC packaging, because it affects reliability.
Very easy to believe Big Battery wouldn't notice this if they received the cells upright, assembled packs with cells on their side after reaching stabilized temperature. The leaking would only occur after subsequent cycles drove liquid out.

Are those thousands of cells upright? Or on their side?
So long as upright, this never happens.

 

[Gazoo]

At the manufacturer of the cells. QC would have to be a leak check. Standard part of hermetic IC packaging, because it affects reliability.
Very easy to believe Big Battery wouldn't notice this if they received the cells upright, assembled packs with cells on their side after reaching stabilized temperature. The leaking would only occur after subsequent cycles drove liquid out.

Are those thousands of cells upright? Or on their side?
So long as upright, this never happens.

Do you think the thousands of cells shipped are kept in an upright position?

 

[SethRR]

Wow, what a mess. I was wondering where the cell pics were, then realized you've got a "void the warranty" situation here. It's up to Bigbattery to do the forensics, which I sincerely hope they will, including posting photos. IMHO you are now a Bigbattery business partner... because you're on the beta test team. You deserve your free battery.

Did they use copper cables as handles, seriously?

YES, EXACTLY @solarbot!! BB has made it blatantly clear that I am not as important as Will. Therefore, I did not dare take it apart to investigate.

 

[Gazoo]

O right, sorry about that @Sillyputty! That's what pissed me off the most, is their response insinuating that I caused it. After I called them out on it, they backtracked and said that they "were in no way shape or form implying that" I was responsible. Well...your engineer said that he knew "for a fact" it was not like that when it shipped out (BS unless your engineer also does the packaging), and he also said that it isn't leaking and is some residue...its sealed in a box inside of a bigger box...sooo what other options are there??

It's possible they didn't notice any leakage when they shipped them out and the pack was upside down in a truck somewhere. But they are still responsible for this mess and they need to look at solutions to prevent it from happening again. I don't believe you did anything to cause this.

 

[solarbot]

I did not dare take it apart to investigate.

How about a photo of the box? I'm interested in whether it says "this side up" anywhere on it.

 

[MrGreen]

Do we have any way of confirming that mr green is who he says he is?

Hello DerpsyDoodler:
Yes, you can confirm that I am the CEO by asking Will Prowse.
We care and review comments to see if there is anything that we can do better.
Thank you,
Eric Lundgren : CEO