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LiFePO4 cordless power tools

svetz

Works in theory! Practice? That's something else
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All the cordless power tools manufacturers I know of have Lithium ion cells.

All the batteries for all those tools have the annoying low-voltage sleep issue
where the battery won't charge. It happens via overuse (no low voltage
cutoff) or via self discharge if you haven't used it in a while.

So, while I know the bump charging trick, I'm wondering if it isn't time to
upgrade to something friendlier like LiFePO4... does anyone make such tools?

Or should I just swap the guts of the existing batteries and the charger?
Y1818107-01.jpg
 
I think one of the main issues is that LiFePO batteries are significantly larger and heavier per watt/hour than lithium ion batteries. Not an issue for a solar system, but in a hand held tool, every ounce adds up quickly.
 
All the cordless power tools manufacturers I know of have Lithium ion cells.

All the batteries for all those tools have the annoying low-voltage sleep issue
where the battery won't charge. It happens via overuse (no low voltage
cutoff) or via self discharge if you haven't used it in a while.

So, while I know the bump charging trick, I'm wondering if it isn't time to
upgrade to something friendlier like LiFePO4... does anyone make such tools?

Or should I just swap the guts of the existing batteries and the charger?
Y1818107-01.jpg
What's the bump charging trick?
 
... LiFePO batteries are significantly larger and heavier per watt/hour than lithium ion batteries. Not an issue for a solar system, but in a hand held tool, every ounce adds up quickly.

The weight of an individual 18650 cell is about the same: Li Ion - ~46g, LiFePO4 - ~41g, so for the same physical size the tool would be the same weight.

But you're right that Li Ion have a higher energy density. The same weight will only yield about 60% the power, so it'll have a shorter runtime. But LiFePO4 wins in every other category: 4-5x the number of charge cycles, wider operating temperatures range, safer and a more constant voltage during discharge cycle, cheaper.

A 3.6V nominal Li Ion has a range of 4.2 to 3V, so a 5 cells pack provides 21 to 15V to a tool. 5 x 3.2V nominal LiFePO4 cells would be near the bottom of that range or 16V. That would make the tool struggle and be inefficient, so it seems for power tools you'd want 6 LiFePO4 cells to replace 5 Li Ion for 19.2V; so to do this you probably couldn't reuse the same plastic battery housing. Yet another reason to buy a 3D printer? ?
 
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My main concern would be discharge C rate. Motors in power tools usually use a very large amount of current and I don't think there's 30 or 40 C LFP cells (but I can be wrong). If there is you'll most likely have a compromise to have it like reduced capacity and/or reduce life cycles, and then I'm pretty sure the battery will be worse than NMC overall (again, I can be wrong).
 
You can get 2.7v 18650 sized super-capacitors, 39g. So, you could re-purpose a 4 AH 5s2p pack into a 1.1Ah 8s1p pack.
Only a 1/4 the power but lighter and fully recharges in a few minutes. Well, without some sort of voltage regulator, probably only 1/8th the power since the voltage drop is fairly steep. Still ...two batteries (one in the charger) could keep you going all day if you had nearby grid power.

My main concern would be discharge C rate...
I think they're about the same for discharge, but don't quote me.
 
The old Black & Decker VPX tools were based on A123 LiFePO4 "NanoPhosphate" 18650 cells. Unfortunately they only ever released a super weeny little slow-charger, not taking advantage of the high-rate charge capability of the cells. Thus the line didn't offer any great advantage over its more conventional brethren (also the lack of a small impact driver hobbled it), and was quickly discontinued.

For a few years around 2006-2011, the DeWalt 36V packs (DC9360) were also A123 cells, but larger -- 26650 perhaps? See https://web.archive.org/web/20070211034518/http://www.slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/packs.htm and https://web.archive.org/web/20070208072103/http://www.slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/index.htm for details, https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?205882-FS-A123-Systems-26650-batteries and more.
 
I used the bump charge trick on my Dewalt 20v 5 amp batteries that were brand new, never used, but sat for a year. Wouldn't charge at all. I hit them with a fully charged battery and now they charge up like they should. Other than that, I'm satisfied with my Dewalt batteries.
 
My main concern would be discharge C rate. Motors in power tools usually use a very large amount of current and I don't think there's 30 or 40 C LFP cells (but I can be wrong). If there is you'll most likely have a compromise to have it like reduced capacity and/or reduce life cycles, and then I'm pretty sure the battery will be worse than NMC overall (again, I can be wrong).
Once upon time B&D and Dewalt HAD lifepo4 batteries on their tools. (first lithium powered hand tools were generally lifepo4)

Time went on, li-ion catched up with power density of the A123 systems nano-lifepo4 and everyone moved to Li-ion. A123 systems going belly up didn't certainly help. Reliability of the lifepo4 battery packs was also questionable. (probably worse than recent offerings from for example Milwaukee&Makita)
 
Yep - I remember when A123 first appeared in power tools. And that was the ONLY way to get them. Well, in cylindrical form. Actually worked well but consider this in regards to reliability:

Most battery nerds wouldn't go out and buy a tool to get NEW A123's. They (myself included) got them from tools that had already seen unknown use / abuse.

At the time, a major industry developed counterfeiting A123, including pouches, or got manufacturer rejects stolen from the waste stream and placed onto the gray market. In the case of pouches that had been abused, A123's "zipper" pressure seal would be cut off, and the cell pressed totally flat again in a vacuum-former.

So too was the voracious appetite of the media to latch on to early EV "lithium fires" for great sound-byte material, but when the investigation was over, in many cases it was not A123 batteries, but the surrounding wiring / charging infrastructure that was the culprit. But that followup investigation would mean eating-crow, and losing the sensationalism at the time wouldn't warrant a followup.

Not saying that was all of A123's early woes, but it certainly didn't help when the lead-acid auto industry was wringing hands over it. Not unlike the earlier NiMh patent-encumbrance fiasco.
 
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