Looking for hybrid/grid-tie learning resources

[hightecrebel]

I probably phrased the title poorly, but here goes. I'm looking for resources to learn more about current grid-tie & hybrid options - both equipment types and plans with or without battery backup. Everything I find is either deep in the weeds technical, very shallow overview with "pay us to plan and install it for you", or some combination of the two with internal contradictions throughout.

All my experience is in small (<3kw) off-grid systems - shed, garage, portable diy set-up for camping and such. I was planning to start building an off-grid system for the house, starting with a few circuits and scaling up, but I recently learned my state re-implemented net-zero metering and want to take advantage of it. My problem is I haven't followed grid-tie information in at least ten years. I have all my state, distributor, & regulator requirements handled, and an electrician willing to double-check my wiring and sign off for me, but I don't want to jump into it and buy equipment I'll just be replacing in a year or three because it can't do what I want it to. I know grid-tie and off-grid at least used to be very different in design from the ground up, so I don't want to go into this planning like an off-grid system and either mess it up or spend way too much money.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I'd start by finding a list of inverters your power company approves to feed back to the grid along with the stipulations then see if any of them support battery storage as well, this is how I I ended up with a grid supported system with no sell back...

 

[BentleyJ]

I'm looking for resources to learn more about current grid-tie & hybrid options - both equipment types and plans with or without battery backup. Everything I find is either deep in the weeds technical, very shallow overview with "pay us to plan and install it for you", or some combination of the two with internal contradictions throughout.

Definitely start by narrowing the list down to approved equipment as 42OhmsPA has suggested. Then download the user/installation manuals for those products and read through them. Its tedious but there are really no short cuts.
After familiarizing yourself with those approved products you will probably reduce the list even further, then come back to the Forum and ask specific questions about anything that is still unclear.

 

[timselectric]

I would avoid grid-tied and just go with an off grid system. Grid-tied is getting less and less worth doing.
It's just a matter of time before you regret it.
Just my two cents.
Probably not worth much with inflation these days. lol

 

[hightecrebel]

I'd start by finding a list of inverters your power company approves to feed back to the grid along with the stipulations then see if any of them support battery storage as well, this is how I I ended up with a grid supported system with no sell back...

9. What do I need for an inverter?
A grid-tie inverter that meets the UL 1741 or IEEE 1547 standard is required for parallel operation

And upon further questioning direct to them, any equipment the manufacturer states is "compliant" with either of those standards on the spec sheet is acceptable unless I go beyond a 1.5 MW system, in which case they want third-party testing and biennial inspections.


And as far as going just off grid, the battery requirements alone for 5+ days of poor or no sun (which happens at least once a month here in winter) make that extremely expensive, thus my original plan to slowly scale it up. With Net-Zero, however, I can load up on panels and what I overproduce in July applies for January. And a smaller AC-coupled battery backup can handle my heat, well pump, refrigerator, lights, and septic for the 8-18 hours that are all I normally lose power for at a time.


Like I said, I was looking for resources regarding the ways of designing the system and types of equipment, NOT specific recommendations yet. I've seen marketing and random videos of everything from standard grid tie with an interlock in the panel for a hybrid inverter with batteries to a massive dc-coupled system that splits between charging the batteries via charge controllers and feeding the grid tie inverter. The books I've found are all over 10+ year old tech or focus the diy info exclusively on cheap Amazon/ebay 1000w grid-tie inverters.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Well you have a nice poco.
I didn't find much info on the subject either, seems like there is a lot of money on the line with it but that's a whole separate conversation...
I'd start with a hybrid inverter that meets there listings and can handle your well pump, even if it's idle consumption isn't that great you can offset it with panels and getting paid 1:1 for what you sell back.
If it were UL listed and it weren't for the lights flickering when the washer agitates I'd recommend the TP6048 without hesitation.
I'm pretty sure the Solarks are listed and will perform exactly what you need but won't have the surge capacity of the Schneider Pro which should also be listed.
If I were doing it all over again and money wasn't a factor at all I'd buy the Schneider and put in a 12kw minimum ground mount, this would be the primary system. (I'm not looking forward to clearing snow from 2 roof arrays.) For selling back to the grid I'd use roof arrays dedicated to a separate inverter.
Hope some of that is helpful.

 

[hightecrebel]

Well you have a nice poco.
I didn't find much info on the subject either, seems like there is a lot of money on the line with it but that's a whole separate conversation...
I'd start with a hybrid inverter that meets there listings and can handle your well pump, even if it's idle consumption isn't that great you can offset it with panels and getting paid 1:1 for what you sell back.
If it were UL listed and it weren't for the lights flickering when the washer agitates I'd recommend the TP6048 without hesitation.
I'm pretty sure the Solarks are listed and will perform exactly what you need but won't have the surge capacity of the Schneider Pro which should also be listed.
If I were doing it all over again and money wasn't a factor at all I'd buy the Schneider and put in a 12kw minimum ground mount, this would be the primary system. (I'm not looking forward to clearing snow from 2 roof arrays.) For selling back to the grid I'd use roof arrays dedicated to a separate inverter.
Hope some of that is helpful.

I've had issues with my PoCo in the past, but they're always responsive and relatively customer focused. Not perfect, but I've dealt with much, much worse (I'm very thankful I don't deal with PG&E anymore, for one). The swap over from complete solution (generation & distro) to just distributor had bumps but ended up working out

And yeah, that's what I was afraid of resource-wise. I guess I'll have to dedicate some time to pulling together all the options and figuring the pros and cons before coming back here for some help finding anything I overlook on it.

That is helpful. The snow on the roof arrays had me worried when I planning an off-grid system, but it being less of a factor with the net offset is a big plus for me. My neighbors, while great, probably wouldn't like a big ground mount solar array appearing in their view of the trees and river.