diy solar

diy solar

Looking for opinions on my solar diagram!

You guys have helped me so much and i'm almost done. I believe i understand everything but don't have any confidence and need a second opinion. Here's my final schematic. I got 5p2s. 37voc 44a per string should i use 8 awg wire from panel to panel? There are 2 connectors on back of my panel pos and neg 14g attached to a black box. I will have to remove them to add the 8 awg pv wire. The wire comes with connectors attached idk if i need extra connectors for series like branch for paralell. The wire going to PV to SCC to Bat is all 8 awg then 2/0 bat to bat to inverter. I need a 50a breaker from scc to bat and one 150a from bat to inverter for each bank. I'll need 50 amp fuses from busbar to bat for each battery so ill need 8. Does a breaker act as a shutoff? So i dont need extra shutoffs. Ill need a battery switcher atleast 200a shunt , monitor, lightning arrestor. Do i need a ac breakers after the inverter? So ill need 100amp ac breaker in a panel with some 50a and 30a breakers plus a ac outlets? I'm mainly concerned right connector types and wire and fuse/breaker sizes. Basically everything lol. I'm so close!!!!! Last but not least can i use a breaker from bus to battery instead of a fuse? Click on picture hopefully you got adblocker i heard there's ads not for me tho. Hold ctrl and scroll up and down to make bigger.
 
Can't edit. I think i need 60a breakers/fuses from scc to bus to bat. One in middle of each.
 
Some general points to consider:
  • You mention "I got 5p2s", is this a typo? Your diagram shows two arrays, each of 0S5P i.e. no panels in series, all in parallel.
  • Assuming you do mean to connect each panel in parallel, you cannot physically connect them per your diagram without additional terminal blocks; each panel only has two output cables, if you connect +ive to +ive, how would you then connect +ive to your SCC? I would suggest either individual cables from each panel to SCC or connect all panels to a +ive and -ive bussbar, then one line from each bussbar to your SCC
  • You have each of your batteries connected to busbars, but then additionally connected to each other? This is unnecessary. Perhaps a throwback from a 24V battery system design?
  • PWM SCCs are an outdated and inefficient technology. Consider MPPT SCCs.
  • You battery monitor's shunt will very likely only connect to the negative line, and will require a separate, fused supply.
  • I personally do not believe you need protection devices on your PV-to-SCC lines, shut-off yes, breaker, no (unless you are using a breaker as a significantly more expensive shut-off switch).
  • I do not know enough about PV grounding, or lightning arestors to comment on this aspect.
  • I don't see an Earth connection going to your consumer panel. You'll need this to ensure the function of any GFCIs. Also, you should target at least 5 times your circuit breaker ampacity rating to ensure a rapid break. For example, for a 16A mains breaker you should target having at least 80A being able to flow to earth in case of an earth short, this means an earth loop impedance of no more than 2.9Ω for a 230V system or no more than 1.5Ω for a 120V system. It is better to keep your earth loop impedance below 1Ω.
Now to your specific questions:

should i use 8 awg wire from panel to panel?
That depends how you connect up your array. If using independant runs from each panel to your SCC, each cable should be specified for Isc +25%. If these cables are in conduit, lie directly on a surface or will experience an ambient temperature of above 30℃ then consult NEC or rate them at least Isc +50%.
If you are using a bussbar, each panel cable should be rated for panel Isc +25% to the bussbar, then array Isc +25% back to the SCC. Same caveats apply as above.
Also remember that MC4 connectors are only rated for 20A. If using the bussbar option above, you will likely need to use an alternative connector, such as a solid copper lug.
There are 2 connectors on back of my panel pos and neg 14g attached to a black box. I will have to remove them to add the 8 awg pv wire.
Do not remove the 'black box'. This will contain your bypass diodes, which are essential to safe operation of your panel.
The wire going to PV to SCC to Bat is all 8 awg
OK, but make sure you consider the caveats above.
I need a 50a breaker from scc to bat and one 150a from bat to inverter for each bank.
You appear to be rating your breakers only on the maximum current expected from your devices e.g. a 50A breaker for a 50A rated SCC, you must also consider the cable. For example, a cable rated for 17A must not be fused higher than 17A. Of course it is just a lot easier to ensure the cable is rated higher than the expected load, but the premise remains valid: it is better to think of fuses etc protecting the cable.
I'll need 50 amp fuses from busbar to bat for each battery so ill need 8.
I personally would not fuse each battery, as they are lead-acid, they will already be in a sealed container and, therefore, inaccessible to any living area. The potential for a short under these circumstances is remote. Of course, each run from the battery bussbar should be fused at the cable ampacity rating as a minimum.
Ill need a battery switcher
Using such a battery switcher makes no sense to me, you are essentially placing half of your solar PV setup 'on the shelf', reducing the power and energy capacity of your system by half. But, I'm sure you have your reasons.
Do i need a ac breakers after the inverter?
Yes, and at least one GFCI/RCD.
So ill need 100amp ac breaker in a panel with some 50a and 30a breakers plus a ac outlets?
No, each circuit should be protected for the ampacity of the circuit cable. Most domestic circuits in the UK are rated for 230V/16A, can't remember if this is a 120V AC system, maybe it is different for US. The primary line cable to your consumer panel should be rated for your inverter rating +25% (e.g. 3,000W inverter will produce 13A at 230V or 25A at 120V). Do not confuse DC Amps (at e.g. 12V) with AC Amps (at e.g. 230V).
I'm mainly concerned right connector types and wire and fuse/breaker sizes.
DC systems tend to use automotive style cable and connectors.
AC (mains) system tend to use residential style cable and connectors. We call the cable 'twin'n'earth' here in the UK, I'm sure the US will have something similar. Connectors tend to screw-terminal.

Edit: Corrected typo.
 
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p.s. I would recommend that you hire a qualified electrician to review and then certificate your AC installation. I am not a qualified electrician!
 
p.p.s. Can't remember if this is a mobile installation ... you should not use solid conductors in a mobile installation (vibration hardening). This applies to point I made above about using "twin'n'earth".
 
Thanks a lot that really helps. I'll have to comb through everything very slowly to understand it but you seem to touch on all the points. Thank you!!
 
If i run the 5 panels in parallel with the neg and pos to its own busbar. Will the 12awg wire be ok? it came with 14 awg which only can handle 6amps so i know i got ripped off and need 12 awg. I'm just wondering if the energy can flow backwards from the neg or pos from bus back to solar panels? If it flows backwards then i would need bigger wire but the black box on back only supports up to 12 awg. Can anyone verify if dc energy goes backwards from bus back to pv panels?

Also If i have 37v at 25c/75f. Then does the voltage lower at a higher temp 100f?
 
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You will probably want a breaker or switch between panels and SCC.

Wondering why you do not wire your batteries together in parallel instead of isolating them on a busbar with individual fuses?
Probably works out the same but seems more complicated than necessary.

Is the battery bank switcher so you can run on either bank or both? Part of your redundancy and isolation plan?
 
Also If i have 37v at 25c/75f. Then does the voltage lower at a higher temp 100f?

Short answer: Yes, your voltage will be less above 25 °C, and more below 25 °C

Longer answer:
Your panels (it would be helpful if you either link to the panel datasheet/specs or take a picture of the sticker on the back), should state a Voltage temperature coefficient (either in the form of mV / °C or % / °C). This value will be negative, meaning for every degree above 25 °C, voltage will decrease by the amount in the numerator.

As an example, this Sunpower panel, has a voltage temperature coefficient of -167.4 mV / °C and a Voc of 68.2V @ 25 °C.
So to figure out the Voc at 38 °C (~100°F) the math would be:
38-25=13°C
13°C x -167.4 = -2176 mV x 1000 = -2.176V
68.2V - 2.176V = 66.024V
Voc @ 38°C/100°F would be 66V

The same math could be used with Vmpp to calculate Vmpp at different temperatures, and the same math is used for low temperature calculations as well.
 
Also, in your diagram the shunt is downstream of your 12v fuse block, as I understand it, a shunt should be positioned as close to the battery as possible and positioned such that it can measure all current flowing into and out of the battery, if you position it after the fuse block I don't see how this is possible (unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by fuse block--when i hear 12v fuse block i generally think of something like this--but maybe i am misunderstanding)
 
Its 2 separate 24v battery banks with a 1/2/1+2 switch. Thanks for all the advice.
 
You will probably want a breaker or switch between panels and SCC.

Wondering why you do not wire your batteries together in parallel instead of isolating them on a busbar with individual fuses?
Probably works out the same but seems more complicated than necessary.

Is the battery bank switcher so you can run on either bank or both? Part of your redundancy and isolation plan?
Well i heard if you have a load on batteries they wont full charge so i can swap back and forth. I'm getting a 1/2/1+2 battery switcher i believe it switches to either bank and 1+2 combines both banks? im not sure but was hoping thats the case.
 
Also, in your diagram the shunt is downstream of your 12v fuse block, as I understand it, a shunt should be positioned as close to the battery as possible and positioned such that it can measure all current flowing into and out of the battery, if you position it after the fuse block I don't see how this is possible (unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by fuse block--when i hear 12v fuse block i generally think of something like this--but maybe i am misunderstanding)
ya i was talking about that fuse block. i don't know how they are hooked up but i thought they would need the pos and neg wires attached to it? idk. i fixed the diagram up with all the help from the comments not sure if anything is wrong. I will probably remove the fuses from the bus to batteries because tictac said its not really neccesary with lead acid flooded batteries.
 
p.p.s. Can't remember if this is a mobile installation ... you should not use solid conductors in a mobile installation (vibration hardening). This applies to point I made above about using "twin'n'earth".
it's a mobile trailer. What/where is the solid conductor in my pv setup? Good for pointing it out even tho i don't know what it means lol!
 
Well i heard if you have a load on batteries they wont full charge
Where did you hear that? I think thats a bunch of hooey. Can you imagine if everybody had to disconnect all loads each day so they can “full charge”?

I rather like the idea of the 1/2/1+2 switch. Hopefully there is an off position too.
 
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ya i was talking about that fuse block. i don't know how they are hooked up but i thought they would need the pos and neg wires attached to it? idk.

In that case you definitely don't want to be running your inverter through it. Fuse block's like that one from Blue Sea are generally used for DC 'consumers', and low-medium power circuits (the one i linked to is rated for <30a per circuit <100a total). Your inverter should be wired separately with its own dedicated heavy duty fuse or breaker.
 
If i run the 5 panels in parallel with the neg and pos to its own busbar. Will the 12awg wire be ok? it came with 14 awg which only can handle 6amps so i know i got ripped off and need 12 awg.
When specifying cable you should follow these three guidelines:
  1. Ensure the ampacity of the cable can support the expected load
  2. Ensure there is no more than a 3% drop in voltage across the cable run
  3. Ensure the cable and connectors are suited for the operational environment
So in your case, you should specify your bussbar-to-SCC cable run for 5 x Isc +25%(*). There are loads of voltage-drop calculators out there. NEC recommends USE-2 type cable for PV installations.
Can anyone verify if dc energy goes backwards from bus back to pv panels?
No, your SCC will prevent this. Whenever you see a detailed PV installation you will note 'bypass diodes' and 'blocking diodes'. Bypass diodes are usually contained on the panel themselves, within the 'black box'. Blocking diodes are usually contained within SCCs these days. The blocking diodes prevent current from your battery back-feeding your panels in the dark, for example.
Also If i have 37v at 25c/75f. Then does the voltage lower at a higher temp 100f?
This has been answered by @Dzl
it's a mobile trailer. What/where is the solid conductor in my pv setup? Good for pointing it out even tho i don't know what it means lol!
I made a comment in my longer post that AC components within a solar installation usually take on the specifications of residential-style equipment, I mentioned using 'twin'n'earth', which is a common cable type used in residential installations (in the UK at least) for mains cabling. But I then couldn't remember if this was a mobile installation; 'twin'n'earth' has solid conductors, which should not be used on mobile installations. You should only use stranded conductors with flexible insulation for mobile installations.



* there are caveats to this if the ambient temperature is above 30℃, the cable lies on a surface or is within conduit with other cables.
 
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