Midnite Solar Rosie on sale

[Brucey]

You lost me with the full five.
What's the B27?
I thought the B17 was a single inverter. What do they mean by modular?

About MidNite Solar

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www.midnitesolar.com

Isn't it just a larger Rosie?

Sorry I misspoke I meant b17.

So each of those slots in one b17 "rack unit" can hold either a charger or a 2kW inverter module if I'm not mistaken. You can hot swap those modules without affecting the load. It's like something out an enterprise class UPS system in a data center.

And then you can have five or six b17 rack units stacked up vertically. So scaling up to 50kW+ etc is possible.

 

[Brucey]

https://www.midnitesolar.com/pages/b17_unavailable/

 

[Brucey]

 

[hwy17]

You lost me with the full five.
What's the B27?
I thought the B17 was a single inverter. What do they mean by modular?

About MidNite Solar

Displays information about MidNite Solar.

www.midnitesolar.com

Isn't it just a larger Rosie?

B17's are/were supposedly slot in modules. I don't know what size but each one smaller than a Rosie.

 

[42OhmsPA]

OK. It all makes sense now, I had it completely wrong.
That is freaking awesome. I want two stacks with 6 inverters and 3 SCC to start.
I love the setup of that, the control knob is awesome.
This just moved to the top of my list over the XWPro for my next system. I really hope it comes to fruition. Even if MidNite released a non UL version I bet it would sell sell sell.

 

[AntronX]

Hot swappable lightweight modules. No need to ship 170 lb chunk of iron back for service. I like it!

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

For the B17-5 (5 modules), the first two (2) modules can be either inverter/charger or a 600V input charge controller module.

Each inverter/charger module is at least 3kW (maybe 3.5kW ?) 120/240 VAC inverter and also charger.

It is sort of a large Rosie in that the underlying power circuitry is very similar. The hot-swap part is quite a part of the B17 modules.

We had to take a detour on design of the B17 but I should be back on that very soon now.

boB

 

[Brucey]

For the B17-5 (5 modules), the first two (2) modules can be either inverter/charger or a 600V input charge controller module.

Each inverter/charger module is at least 3kW (maybe 3.5kW ?) 120/240 VAC inverter and also charger.

It is sort of a large Rosie in that the underlying power circuitry is very similar. The hot-swap part is quite a part of the B17 modules.

We had to take a detour on design of the B17 but I should be back on that very soon now.

boB

So potentially you could get a frame and a single inverter/charger module (minimum price of entry) and then expand as finances allow? When the frames are stacked is there some kind of bus for the inputs/outputs on the left side wiring bay running vertically internally?

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

So potentially you could get a frame and a single inverter/charger module (minimum price of entry) and then expand as finances allow? When the frames are stacked is there some kind of bus for the inputs/outputs on the left side wiring bay running vertically internally?

Yes, You could start with one module and expand.

One the left side is a wiring compartment so you can stack vertically.
I have only stacked them horizontally though, myself.

And lots of surge !

boB

 

[Brucey]

Sorry I meant stacking horizontally, do you just connect to one of the wiring bays or wire up into each frame

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

Sorry I meant stacking horizontally, do you just connect to one of the wiring bays or wire up into each frame

You need to connect each mainframe with to the other with cables. Not sure if there will be some kind of common box for multiple stacked B17s.

There is also a stacking cable between mainframes for Canbus and synchronization.

boB

 

[Midnite Beta Tester]

This is a B17 Inverter/Charger module on the scales. Under 10.5 Lbs. Last year Midnite tested a single module in an enclosure designed for just 1 module. Future model maybe? 6 small fans fed about 8 VDC, so slow and very quiet. Loaded up 4kW for 3-4 hours if I recall. Not a single internal temp being monitored ever reached a level that was of any concern.

A similar test was done using the B17-5 main frame. 1 module. A 5kW load applied. 2 hours later no smoke, no abnormal temps recorded. I wanted to keep going higher.....problem. The DC input has a 100 amp surface mount fuse. At 5kW it was pulling 98 amps at 50 VDC. Hmmm..

Hey boB! Can I double up the fuses? Sure! 6Kw load applied....After 15 minutes the temps were climbing too fast for comfort and test ended. An hour later 7kW load tried. Temps started climbing fast after 3-4 minutes. We found the wall! Stop! Wait 30 minutes....8kW? No! 9kW? No!

Let's jump right to 10kW! For the record, that's input. 200 amps at 50VDC. I stopped the test at about 20 seconds....Why? Because the magic smoke was still contained! Do it again? OK. But added another 500 watts to the loadbank...less than 2 seconds later...the anti-suicide protection kicked in and the module disabled/shutdown. No harm done! A single module loaded to 3kW can then easily surge to 10kW! Midnite has done that a few hundred times and not one module has ever failed under load.

Based on Midnites testing and my own, a good estimate on B17 ratings would be 3.5-4kW cont if 1-2 modules installed. 3+ modules space begins to get crowded and added heat so 3-3.5kW ea....? Keep in mind the B17 is overdesigned, just like the Rosie, and they will underrate it. They want the odds of you dealing with the hassle of returning a big heavy 10.5Lb module to be very low!

The Rosie is badazz...she is out there in the wild and earning a well deserved reputation as a rock solid performer. The B17 is Rosie on steroids and the ultimate AIO. Hardware is mostly done and proven. Once boB can get back to the goofy ones & zeros it needs to shine, firmware, then we should start hearing more about it.

The B17 VS Air Compressor? That was me having fun on a hot Summer day.

 

[AntronX]

Can this module take 400Vdc input from high voltage MPPT like it's done inside hybrid all in one boxes? Or does the MPPT has to step down to 50V first (which would be inefficient).

 

[Midnite Beta Tester]

Can this module take 400Vdc input from high voltage MPPT like it's done inside hybrid all in one boxes? Or does the MPPT has to step down to 50V first (which would be inefficient).

The B17 has two different modules. Power/Charge module, 48 VDC in, 120/240 VAC out inverting. 50+ amps DC charging from Grid/Generator. And MPPT modules, 600 VDC in, 100 amps 48 VDC out. This is an MPPT module on the scales. Nearly identical in weight. B17 can take up to a pair of MPPT modules + 3 Power/Charge modules. Mix n match. 1 MPPT +4 Power or all 5 slots with only power/charge modules.

 

[AntronX]

Oh that's a bit disappointing. Stepping down 400V solar voltage to 50V then back up to 400V again inside inverter module would cause total PV to AC conversion loss of at least 10%. High voltage hybrid inverters boost 80 - 400V PV voltage to 450V and then invert to AC at only 2% loss. The B17 can still be redesigned to follow this topology. Just bring out DC high voltage bus to the back plane interconnect and use high voltage non-isolated boost DC-DC module for MPPT stage. This way it would match efficiency of EG4, Solark, etc.

 

[Brucey]

Oh that's a bit disappointing. Stepping down 400V solar voltage to 50V then back up to 400V again inside inverter module would cause total PV to AC conversion loss of at least 10%. High voltage hybrid inverters boost 80 - 400V PV voltage to 450V and then invert to AC at only 2% loss. The B17 can still be redesigned to follow this topology. Just bring out DC high voltage bus to the back plane interconnect and use high voltage non-isolated boost DC-DC module for MPPT stage. This way it would match efficiency of EG4, Solark, etc.

They prob can't deliver a touch safe hot swap module on a potentially 600V bus. Personally I'm not worried about it. Exciting to have a built in US option on the market versus rebranded Deyes with US support.

 

[Hedges]

Did they say B17 supports (or will support) AC coupling? Rosie, I think does.
Not that I expect to see a Midnight GT PV inverter fitting in the rack, so would not be packaged as AIO.

AC coupling does give you the efficiency that HV DC coupled offers.
But it doesn't let you over-panel to the point where PV maxes out AC inverter and maxes out DC/DC battery charger. Well maybe:

GT PV inverter is designed for 100% operation, doesn't have to support surge. A question will be whether they support 200% AC coupling (like Sunny Island) or only 100% (most other brands.)

 

[hwy17]

I'm happier for Midnite to stay purely 48v.

 

[SpongeboB Sinewave]

Remember also that the typical all in one PV connected to inverter DC HV rail does not normally give you full power output from battery.
That must be done during the day with the addition of solar/PV input, such as the Sol-Ark and I think, most of the other AIO's. They also only usually allow 500V maximum HV PV input.

MidNite will have a high power (10+ kW) all in one inverter with HV input from China which makes all of the AIO HV inverter/chargers anyway.
The Chinese are already very good at making these. They're not all perfect but.... Probably not going to sell many if they were made in the USA.

The B17 can not be easily changed to HV backplane. The MPPT modules ARE hot-swappable and touch safe with max 600V PV input.
That is not easy to do but it has been done already. Even the 48V battery side has to be touch safe and cannot be just left floating and caps charged.

boB

 

[koppted]

Remember also that the typical all in one PV connected to inverter DC HV rail does not normally give you full power output from battery.
That must be done during the day with the addition of solar/PV input, such as the Sol-Ark and I think, most of the other AIO's. They also only usually allow 500V maximum HV PV input.

MidNite will have a high power (10+ kW) all in one inverter with HV input from China which makes all of the AIO HV inverter/chargers anyway.
The Chinese are already very good at making these. They're not all perfect but.... Probably not going to sell many if they were made in the USA.

The B17 can not be easily changed to HV backplane. The MPPT modules ARE hot-swappable and touch safe with max 600V PV input.
That is not easy to do but it has been done already. Even the 48V battery side has to be touch safe and cannot be just left floating and caps charged.

boB

Sounds like a lose-lose. If you give your blueprints and essentially your IP to a Chinese firm, what is to prevent them from delivering an inferior product and materials under your contract, opening up another company manufacturing an AIO with relatively superior materials selling them under a different name and keeping all the profit to themselves.
I'm saying this because I've seen this happen before with an automatic door lock manufacturer that i used to sell(early 2000's before the current market saturation).
Not saying I don't buy things made in China. I have and will , hat is the world we live in.

I'm hoping you guys will break this cycle of given away your mind and life's work to the Chinese, in hopes of making ever larger profits that will not materialize once you've been double crossed.