My parents are moving into a parked 50 amp RV inside 11 acres to be near my aging grandparents. Please help design their off grid solar system?

[Rocketman]

I full-time in a 50a Motorhome. After reading your messages this is where I would look - you may need to adjust a bit after doing the energy audits…

Two Multiplus II 48/5000. These will run a house with no problems.
Batteries- four rack mounted 48v 100ah batteries.

Look at Current Connected - they have “kits” that may be about all you would need.
Victron 10kwh Multiplus power system kit - plus battery kit + solar kit.

Also, if the fridge in the RV is the propane absorbing type - look at changing it out to a residential fridge. They work better - keep food better and use MUCH less electricity to run.

A smaller generator (or even 15 amps from the barn) can supplement when solar is bad.

Good Luck

 

[chrisski]

If your looking for numbers to plan by, expect:

-180 watt panel to be 1 meter square, but that won't produce 100 watts; all matters how much sun hits it.
-7 watts per 100 watt panel on a cloudy day
-My 35' RV roof fits 1650 watts of panels because of obstacles liek AC and vents, but in theory could fit 3000 watts

Although two 5 kVA multiplus will do you fine for power, getting the amount of panels would be near impossible. I'd recommend putting some battery numbers and array size in a calculator like in my signature block to see how much power you make by month and can estimate array size.

You get to see how large a system needs to be to get a battery filed every day, and can throw in some more batteries for excess production.

I have a 13 kWh battery bank in my RV, and I can charge that in a good day with solar, but if it were ever cloudy and I fired up the generator, I can only charge with the AC to DC converter around 800 watts, so that would take forever.

 

[anuccite]

RV's are the most in-efficient things on the planet, I had a friend living on my property for 6 months, summer to winter in Eastern NC.... So mainly AC use. between the 5Ton AC in my house, and My friends RV (2 AC units) we were averaging 100kwh days...... I would strongly suggest alternate means to heat / cool (Mini-split, and having a large Propane Tank for the furnace)..... Like others have said, Anything can be done, But at what cost?

 

[chickencoops]

I've never heard of a utility line onto a property designed to handle only 20A. I would explore this more to see exactly what you have. Can you post a few pix of the main and meter?

I have requested pictures and I will update here. This is how the story goes. There is this shed far from grandpa's house where he ran two 20 amp lines. He apparently used thicker 10 gauge wire because of the distance and from the shed, he ran one of the 20 amp lines to the barn/shop using the same 10 gauge wire. The proposed location to park the RV is within the vicinity of said barn/shop.

In my case I'm just trying to get a single 120v 3Kw system up and online. Most days I was up there, once I got the array and BMS all fixed and working, I actually ran at a net loss over the day, I.E. I started at 97% battery in the morning and had 93% at sundown, and I wasn't running the Aircon or anything high draw. That's just lights, coffee maker once a day, the TV, Starlink, my laptop for a couple hours, and the 12v battery charger to feed my 12v heaters. 2400w of panel wouldn't break even the time I was up there because I never got good sun while the system was online.

That is powerful data. Net loss over the day! The many continuous weeks of overcast days are unavoidable.

Blurb time!

Well, I'll start the default answer to these questions and we can work from there. Here's you To-Do list:

1: Power audit!.

2: Where do you live?

3: Parts list:

4: Budget!:

5: Tape measure!

6: Pencil out what you think you need and throw it at us so we can tell you what you've missed (because we ALL miss stuff the first go-round ) and help figure out which parts and pieces you're going to want to get.

Well that's the thing about solar systems, there is no 1-Size-Fits-All answer. Your system will need to be designed to fit YOUR needs. When you design and built the system, it's not going to be the perfect system for me, or Will or 12vInstall or anyone else, but it Will be the right system for You and that's the goal.

Don't panic on the Power Audit, you'll actually be doing that a few times. When you do the first pass put in ALL the Things that you might want. AirCon? Sure. Jacuzzi? Why not. MargaritaMaster-9000? Go for it.

The second pass will be the "I Absolutely Need This To Survive" list that isn't going to have much on there.

The third pass will be the "This is what is realistic" audit that you'll use to design the rest of the system.

The Power Audit is going to tell you 3 primary things: 1: How big does your inverter need to be to power your loads? 2: How much battery bank do you need to last $N number of days with krappy weather? and 3: How much solar panel will I need to install to refill those batteries in a 4 hour day (the average usable sun hours rule-of-thumb).

Once you know what you Want and what you Need and what your budget can Afford there will be somewhere in that Venn diagram where those three things meet.

After that, THEN you can start looking at parts.

Yes, it's a long drawn out process, but it's worth it in the end. Not every house has the exact same floorplan, not every vehicle is the same make & model, and not every solar system is designed the same.

You are an amazing wealth of information and so is everyone here! I have passed this list on to my dad.
-We will do a power audit
-Make some real serious conversation about the realistic nature of relying on solar power in the PNW.
-Make a parts list of what we think we need and will report back here.

What's an RV life without MargaritaMaster-9000?

+1 to others and @Rednecktek

Link #1 in my signature gets you to the relevant planning resources.

Also wanted to discourage the choice of Quattro for the stated reason. The two inputs are NOT solar + AC. They are two separate AC inputs typically grid and generator. Only one can be active at a time. For solar, you need a separate MPPT.

The only reasons to choose a Quattro over a Multiplus/Multiplus-II:

1. You have a compelling need for two AC inputs that can't be met with an external ATS (auto transfer switch - most 50A RVs with generators have this).
2. You can't get the MP/MP-II in the desired voltage/power needed.

We're off-grid on 40 acres with a system in a shipping container powering two 5th wheels.

I have 2X Quattro 48/5000 because there wasn't a 48V/5000W Multiplus available at the time. If I had to do it all over, I would choose 2X Multiplus-II 48/5000 today. They are UL pending and have been optimized for even lower power consumption.

wow! Thank you for the recommendation on Multiplus II and for the link. There are some cool links in your signature like the JRC Geographical information system.
Arizona seems like a fantastic place to run an off grid setup. Are you powering two 5th wheels with 10K Quattro setup + 6kW of panels + 12kWh of batteries?

I full-time in a 50a Motorhome. After reading your messages this is where I would look - you may need to adjust a bit after doing the energy audits…

Two Multiplus II 48/5000. These will run a house with no problems.
Batteries- four rack mounted 48v 100ah batteries.

Look at Current Connected - they have “kits” that may be about all you would need.
Victron 10kwh Multiplus power system kit - plus battery kit + solar kit.

Also, if the fridge in the RV is the propane absorbing type - look at changing it out to a residential fridge. They work better - keep food better and use MUCH less electricity to run.

A smaller generator (or even 15 amps from the barn) can supplement when solar is bad.

Good Luck

Current Connected and NAWS have been recommended to me. Thanks for the endorsement for CC. Any thoughts on shop solar kits?

It sounds like certain things have to be swapped out like possibly the fridge and running a good split pack

If your looking for numbers to plan by, expect:

-180 watt panel to be 1 meter square, but that won't produce 100 watts; all matters how much sun hits it.
-7 watts per 100 watt panel on a cloudy day

I have a 13 kWh battery bank in my RV, and I can charge that in a good day with solar, but if it were ever cloudy and I fired up the generator, I can only charge with the AC to DC converter around 800 watts, so that would take forever.

7 watts per 100 watt panel on a cloudy day. WOW! Numbers really put things to perspective, don't they! We might need the 11 acres of panels after all

 

[Rednecktek]

Grab that Excel sheet from the Resources section and it'll tell you what all you're going to need for that MargaritaMaster-9000. When it comes to getting the parts, as much as I hate Victron, you can't go wrong with Current Connected!

 

[chickencoops]

Grab that Excel sheet from the Resources section and it'll tell you what all you're going to need for that MargaritaMaster-9000. When it comes to getting the parts, as much as I hate Victron, you can't go wrong with Current Connected!

My good sir, why do you hate Victron?

 

[Rednecktek]

My good sir, why do you hate Victron?

I consider them the Apple of solar. You pay through the nose to get into their ecosystem and you're nickle & dimed for every little thing. From a value perspective FOR ME they just seem like over priced name brand wallet flex equipment.

Sure, they FINALLY dropped the prices of their SCC's to high end instead of OMGWTF, but the inverters, fuse blocks (which last I checked only use MEGA fuses which aren't supposed to be rated for LFP), screw covers, shunts, etc is still WWAAAYYY more than anyone else for the same functionality.

Just a bad value for the dollar in my eyes. Just like Apple computers.

 

[chickencoops]

I consider them the Apple of solar. You pay through the nose to get into their ecosystem and you're nickle & dimed for every little thing. From a value perspective FOR ME they just seem like over priced name brand wallet flex equipment.

Sure, they FINALLY dropped the prices of their SCC's to high end instead of OMGWTF, but the inverters, fuse blocks (which last I checked only use MEGA fuses which aren't supposed to be rated for LFP), screw covers, shunts, etc is still WWAAAYYY more than anyone else for the same functionality.

Just a bad value for the dollar in my eyes. Just like Apple computers.

Ahhh fair enough! That makes sense. Someone here recommended to go with UL listed inverter like Sol-ark 15k and EG4 powerpro but we will do the power audit and have a requirement list before looking at components.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Ahhh fair enough! That makes sense. Someone here recommended to go with UL listed inverter like Sol-ark 15k and EG4 powerpro but we will do the power audit and have a requirement list before looking at components.

remember other makes exist like the magnum, outbacks and shcneider's (xantrex/trace) solark is a recent impot from china, while it is OK they are charging 1st tier prices for a rebadged china unit that you can buy off of alibabba for a 1/4 of the price. the only real difference is in the software they load the units with. research the name you will see a bunch of threads in the last 12 months complaining about when solark got the US as a sales patch and blocked the OE maker (Deye) from selling in the US.

while it was Deye selling in the US they were worth what you paid for them. now rebadged as Solark I do not think they are worth what they charge for them. YMMV.

 

[MisterSandals]

the only real difference is in the software they load the units with.

The software is extremely important!

Schneider, perhaps with the finest hardware, has the poorest software (and support), is a weak product overall.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

The software is extremely important!

Schneider, perhaps with the finest hardware, has the poorest software (and support), is a weak product overall.

agreed that schneiders software sucks compared to some of the others.

Magnum has very little software to deal with simple plug stuff in and it works, what it does not offer is a GUI that us DIY Nerds can play with for endless hours looking at the fancy lights.

You cannot plug into it with a computer and monitor everything from your cell phone and that is its biggest point for selling to the market at this point in time. What it does have though is that it is a 20+ year old design with the bugs eliminated at this point.

only real issue is that as a first tier item they are not cheap, but with the current price of the Solarks you are not saving any real amounts of cash. and with the magnum, being that it is Not an AIO if one peice goes out you can swap that one piece and be up and running quickly where as with an AIO you have to have a complete spare AIO which is way more expensive that simply stocking a spare charge controller or a couple of the boards for the inverter.

just my thoughts.

 

[Partimewages]

There was a bunch of negative comments on the RV forums in the last couple years about magnum. No service no parts. Supposedly they moved to Mexico.
Anyone know anything about that? I have no direct knowledge.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

There was a bunch of negative comments on the RV forums in the last couple years about magnum. No service no parts. Supposedly they moved to Mexico.
Anyone know anything about that? I have no direct knowledge.

yes they did during the middle of covid, they are once again available. bad timing on Sensata's part. Sensata bought out Magnum about 8 years ago and in an effort to squeeze as much profit as possible they decided to move the production line down to mexico. not that big of a deal in my eyes as the parts are all global sourced and it was just assembled in the US. hell probably less dope smokers on that side f the border as they can't afford it... better QC as a result probably.

because it happened during covid it turned into a cluster fuck of epic proportions. that and since the parts are from the global supply chain they had issues with that as well... trust me I have alot of magnum gear and i was one of the folks howling about it.

 

[Partimewages]

yes they did during the middle of covid, they are once again available. bad timing on Sensata's part. Sensata bought out Magnum about 8 years ago and in an effort to squeeze as much profit as possible they decided to move the production line down to mexico. not that big of a deal in my eyes as the parts are all global sourced and it was just assembled in the US. hell probably less dope smokers on that side f the border as they can't afford it... better QC as a result probably.

because it happened during covid it turned into a cluster fuck of epic proportions. that and since the parts are from the global supply chain they had issues with that as well... trust me I have alot of magnum gear and i was one of the folks howling about it.

Thanks for clarification. Magnum always had a great reputation. I was afraid it wasn't the case now. Everyone makes mistakes.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Thanks for clarification. Magnum always had a great reputation. I was afraid it wasn't the case now. Everyone makes mistakes.

the biggest issue I see with magnum now, is that they lost most of their tech staff. the people who actually understood how all the system work together. so getting tech help is slower and takes more tries to get the help you need. though admittedly most of the stuff is covered in the manual (very extensive manual i might add.) just me not being a trained electrician some of it I was not to sure about.

 

[Kiwi2000]

Just about anything can be achieved if you throw enough money at it.

This is what I would consider the ultimate system in a RV...

I would highly recommend to go with Victron components (except for maybe the batteries).

Being that it is modular and can add more at a later date if they find they need it and it will still integrate seamlessly.

And Victron's user interface/software side of things makes for a much nicer user experience.

 

[AstroBob]

I full-time in a 50a Motorhome. After reading your messages this is where I would look - you may need to adjust a bit after doing the energy audits…

Two Multiplus II 48/5000. These will run a house with no problems.
Batteries- four rack mounted 48v 100ah batteries.

Look at Current Connected - they have “kits” that may be about all you would need.
Victron 10kwh Multiplus power system kit - plus battery kit + solar kit.

Also, if the fridge in the RV is the propane absorbing type - look at changing it out to a residential fridge. They work better - keep food better and use MUCH less electricity to run.

A smaller generator (or even 15 amps from the barn) can supplement when solar is bad.

Good Luck

Just sharing my absorption fridge experiences. I have had 2. A 3-way (12V, 120, gas), which stunk, wouldn't work hardly at all, and my current, a 120V and Propane Dometic DM2672. It's a completely different experience. It's a great fridge. Uses almost nil electric on gas. Works as good or better than any 12V fridge I've ever used. I'd put it up against any residential fridge of a similar size (6 cu ft). It sips propane, and It allows me to dry camp for two weeks at least, without refilling propane. Yes, the OP has a different use case, but absorption fridges are not all alike. Just sayin'

 

[AstroBob]

I consider them the Apple of solar. You pay through the nose to get into their ecosystem and you're nickle & dimed for every little thing. From a value perspective FOR ME they just seem like over priced name brand wallet flex equipment.

Sure, they FINALLY dropped the prices of their SCC's to high end instead of OMGWTF, but the inverters, fuse blocks (which last I checked only use MEGA fuses which aren't supposed to be rated for LFP), screw covers, shunts, etc is still WWAAAYYY more than anyone else for the same functionality.

Just a bad value for the dollar in my eyes. Just like Apple computers.

Bravo, Rednecktek! While the victron products I own are of good quality, I despise being locked into any one "ecosystem", hardware or software. Any technology. Sometime this forum seems like an endless comercial for victron. It sometimes seems a little over the top. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Kiwi2000]

Bravo, Rednecktek! While the victron products I own are of good quality, I despise being locked into any one "ecosystem", hardware or software. Any technology. Sometime this forum seems like an endless comercial for victron. It sometimes seems a little over the top. Just my humble opinion.

Don't watch Will's latest video then...

 

[Brucey]

Don't watch Will's latest video then...

In Wills defense he does review a LiTime + giandel combo for the cheaper value option after the epoch+multiplus he recommends as the premium/performance version.