New Chargery DCC (DC Contactor)

[cinergi]

So essentially it turns the charger on and off when there is something like over voltage or under voltage?
Does it also work for over and under temp etc?

The DCC itself doesn't make those decisions. The Chargery BMS does. It instructs the DCC to turn on/off depending on the Chargery BMS conditions/settings (high/low voltage, temperature, etc).

 

[Deleted member 9967]

The DCC itself doesn't make those decisions. The Chargery BMS does. It instructs the DCC to turn on/off depending on the Chargery BMS conditions/settings (high/low voltage, temperature, etc).

So like the relay use to do, this now does and the main difference is that it is not analog but a pcb with circuitry etc?

 

[Steve_S]

The Biggest Difference is the Power Consumption for the Contactor, compared to the TE/Kilovacs or the original Electro-Mechanical relays.

 

[Deleted member 9967]

The Biggest Difference is the Power Consumption for the Contactor, compared to the TE/Kilovacs or the original Electro-Mechanical relays.

But in the end it is just a relay. Right?

 

[Bob B]

But in the end it is just a relay. Right?

A relay is a mechanical / electrical device .... The DCC does the same switching as a relay but is a solid state device that draws a lot less current than a relay coil.
During normal operation, the relay .... or DCC ... will be energized all the time. That is why the solid state device is popular because a relay coil can run the battery down if it sits very long. You could put a switch in series with a relay coil on your mobility scooter if you want to shut off the load when not using or charging. You will have to decide whether you want common port or separate port setup. It would be good to read the wiring / installation portions of the Chargery manual closely.

 

[Deleted member 9967]

A relay is a mechanical / electrical device .... The DCC does the same switching as a relay but is a solid state device that draws a lot less current than a relay coil.
During normal operation, the relay .... or DCC ... will be energized all the time. That is why the solid state device is popular because a relay coil can run the battery down if it sits very long. You could put a switch in series with a relay coil on your mobility scooter if you want to shut off the load when not using or charging. You will have to decide whether you want common port or separate port setup. It would be good to read the wiring / installation portions of the Chargery manual closely.

Thanks Bob
So it might behoove me to get this instead of the relays from Chargey then? Cool.

 

[Bob B]

You'd just have to make sure you have room for it ... or them ... depending on whether or not you go common or separate port. I'd definitely use the DCC if you have room for it.

 

[Deleted member 9967]

You'd just have to make sure you have room for it ... or them ... depending on whether or not you go common or separate port. I'd definitely use the DCC if you have room for it.

Um how big is this thing? Like a pack of cards or a bread box?

 

[Gazoo]

Um how big is this thing? Like a pack of cards or a bread box?

Rather than using relays and putting money towards them, why not get a BMS from Overkill Solar? You need a BMS anyways and the Overkill Solar has the option of using a switch to turn the BMS's discharge on or off. Plus he will connect the lugs for a small fee. Not meaning to derail or hijack the thread. But I think it would make more sense for you to go in this direction since your scooter load isn't great.

 

[Bob B]

Um how big is this thing? Like a pack of cards or a bread box?

There's a picture of it next to the Chargery BMS in the #1 post on this thread. That was the first version. I think the only difference to the new ones is the connections.

 

[Bob B]

P.S. Post #28 has the specifications which includes the dimensions.

 

[Steve_S]

Thanks Bob
So it might behoove me to get this instead of the relays from Chargey then? Cool.

Considering that this is for a scooter, which will undoubtedly see various weather conditions, which in BC it can anything and quickly to boot. I'm not so sure that a DCC would be the right thing,. I think it would be better to use TE/Kilovac EVE Energy Saver relays, these are appropriate for the use case. If you decide to use a Fet Based BMS like the Overkill models, go for the higher amp handling of course, it's one of those better safe than sorry things where it's better to have more capacity than you will use then not enough and having unpleasantries.

 

[Bob B]

The DCC is rated at -40 to 85C. The Chargery is rated for -20C ... and that says for the display. I didn't see a spec for the BMS itself but I'm sure it would be at least the -20C that the display is rated for ... The BMS itself would probably be OK even if the display was too cold.

That being said, I would do as much as possible to protect the BMS from the elements.

 

[Deleted member 9967]

Wow, thanks for all of the ideas guys.
You guys are great.
Thanks

 

[Capt Bill]

Looks like big improvement of Chargery supplied options, especially for large battery currents. I am looking forward to some full amp testing results being shared / re voltage loss and heat; including at what amps, and time spans. What are the Takes of folks trying these DDC Contactors out? I notice 100 amp, 200 amp 300 amp and 600 amp models with good looking specs. Who really giving them some current runs to give us more reports ??? Eyes and Ears over this way :+)

 

[Steve_S]

I've run my 300A DCC's through my Thrash Tests and they didn't even warm up !
I pushed 4 packs hard with 200A discharge & 150A charge. Then I did that to single packs to really stress them up, the wires got a little warm but not the 300A DCC. I built my system for 300A handling knowing I would not get there unless it was an extremely rare instance (for surges). I did get the ones first sold (V1.0) which had a few quirks that got fixed fast.

 

[Capt Bill]

I've run my 300A DCC's through my Thrash Tests and they didn't even warm up !
I pushed 4 packs hard with 200A discharge & 150A charge. Then I did that to single packs to really stress them up, the wires got a little warm but not the 300A DCC.

Thanks for your personal Thumbs Up from Trash Tests. That means allot to me. ...for clarity sake: gotta ask: What are your referring to with those terms "4 packs" and "single packs"?

 

[Steve_S]

My LFP Bank consists of 4 battery packs. 2x 24V/280AH and 2x 24V/175AH.
I've tested with all 4 packs online, 3 packs, 2 packs, 1 pack. Then with 1x 280 & 1x 175 ON and the other two off and assorted combos. I wanted to determine expected behaviours and to see what can be caused, created, & dealt with in a controlled situation. I do not want to learn of errors or failures the hard way by "suffering it". This is all in my Production System now sitting side x side to my 22kwh FLA battery Bank.

Critical lesson learned:
As LFP packs fill up and the BMS' start kicking off within the bank while being Charged by the Inverter Charger, the Inverter does NOT like that flipping around... because a pack will hit full, BMS disconnects, pack settles and BMS reconnects and takes more charge. this up & down amp variations essentially is unpleasant to the Inverter/Charger. Now the Nasty ! When all packs hit HVD and consider themselves full so they disconnect while the inverter is in Charge Mode, that TRIPS INVERTER Safeties and cycles the inverter (reboots it). Geezus Murphy, it IS harsh ! Let's not discuss how the Generator takes that (simply put, does not like it one bit).

Fortunately, I am using a Samlex EVO Inverter and it has the required safeties & protection circuitry. Had I done such with my cheap Value Yiyen APC-3024 Inverter/Charger it more than likely would have gotten fried and badly. Very basic unit, identical to the Aims 3000W/24V Low-Frequency units. I believe Yiyen is the OEM for AIMS products but I am not 100% sure on that. They could be Sigineer. Would have to crack one open and look at the PCB's.

 

[BiduleOhm]

Critical lesson learned:
As LFP packs fill up and the BMS' start kicking off within the bank while being Charged by the Inverter Charger, the Inverter does NOT like that flipping around... because a pack will hit full, BMS disconnects, pack settles and BMS reconnects and takes more charge. this up & down amp variations essentially is unpleasant to the Inverter/Charger. Now the Nasty ! When all packs hit HVD and consider themselves full so they disconnect while the inverter is in Charge Mode, that TRIPS INVERTER Safeties and cycles the inverter (reboots it). Geezus Murphy, it IS harsh ! Let's not discuss how the Generator takes that (simply put, does not like it one bit).

Well, we warn repeatedly that BMS must be a redundant safety, not the normal end of charge and LVD device. It was only a matter of time something bad would happen (and actually you got lucky it was only mildly bad). Maybe your experience will warn others better than we've done until now.

 

[Steve_S]

As I said, doing things in a controlled way prevents Magic Smoke which is NOT a lesson I want to experience.
The BMS' did / do their job exactly as desired and expected.
It also HIGHLIGHTS the need for centralised controls, which can interact with each BMS and direct Inverter ort SCC to stop or change activity.
Once a Battery Bank starts to get complex, Decentralised BMS' are called for in the real world.... (Completely outside of Will's experiences) and rarely mentioned on this forum. It crosses into a slightly different zone.

With this stuff, it is very easy to grow beyond the tech being used and having to step up a notch or two to continue growth/expansion.

 

[BiduleOhm]

Yep, we really need an open standard comm for our systems, because currently it's a big mess of proprietary protocols (when you're even able to have some comm in the first place...).

 

[Steve_S]

ModBus & CanBus exist exactly for that reason.
Luckily Jason @Chargery has caught onto that from our discussions and will be implementing CanBus into the new version of BMS being cooked up. ModBus can be bi-directional allowing for config modifications and such, I believe CanBus has similar capability. (I have nothing which I use CanBus for) as my Samlex EVO has both CanBus & ModBus while my Midnite Classic uses ModBus, so stuck with ModBus.

The Chargery Serial RS232 is a bit of a nightmare with 4 BMS' hooked up to one USRIOT N540 RS2323/RS485 to IP server. This is a beast I will be tackling shortly once I resolve my Raspberry Pi issues. The Win-10 Python implementation SUX ! Node_red is not meant for Windows, which is what I have used to interface with the Midnite Controller. Node_red can handle ModBus & CanBus and a lot more as well, so I'll get to it.

REFS:
Node-RED
4-port Serial to IP Converters | Modbus Serial to Ethernet Converters (pusr.com)

 

[BiduleOhm]

Yeah, but that's only standard on the structure, the data can be any random thing. So it's better of course, but we're still missing a standard who says what should named how, and has which format, etc..

For example "the battery voltage must be named vBatt (or "be at address 0x12" if it's a protocol using addresses instead) and is a 32 bits float number representing the battery voltage in volts".

Then everything following this standard know where and how it can read the battery voltage, and then it can do its thing with that info (like terminating the charge for example)

 

[tazzytazzy]

Are the DCC Contactor devices compatible with ElectroDacus? I'm parting out my system and ready to pull the trigger once I get all the dots connected.

I was planning to go with 2 Victron Battery Protects, but it looks like it can just go with one DCC Contactor.

 

[Factory400]

Are the DCC Contactor devices compatible with ElectroDacus? I'm parting out my system and ready to pull the trigger once I get all the dots connected.

I was planning to go with 2 Victron Battery Protects, but it looks like it can just go with one DCC Contactor.

I am pretty sure that the DCC just needs a 12v signal at some tiny current. The ElectroDaucus has GPIOs, but they cannot drive it directly. Perhaps the GPIO could activate and external logical level FET, BJT, or small signal relay to trigger the DCC.

I am only superficially familiar with the ElectroDaucus, so take that with a grain of salt.