New PowerMax Lithium Series Converter/Chargers

[Texas-Mark]

The terms...Plug...and Receptacle are not interchangeable terms.

Technically no, but people do it all the time. It was pretty easy to see what he meant without making a big deal out of it

 

[Butcher]

No problem confirming what someone is typing vs what they are thinking. I think we all understand now that from the breaker to the place where the converter is plugged into, is good to 20A.

 

[Browneye]

No problem confirming what someone is typing vs what they are thinking. I think we all understand now that from the breaker to the place where the converter is plugged into, is good to 20A.

Sure. But that has not been confirmed on your setup. You said you replaced a factory installed 15A breaker with a 20A for nuisance tripping. You said it is in close proximity, which is good, and it's probly fine, but if it's 14G wire like most RV's, it might heat up when your charger is charging at full current and thereby drawing full current.
You can run whatever you want in your rig, I'm simply suggesting you set it up on full charge and probe everything with a laser thermometer to make sure nothing is overheating. Simple deal, for rest assured state of mind.

Let's move on....that MeanWell charger sure works awesome! LOL
Pulled the powermax unit out, plugged it in, works perfectly - sold it on ebay.

 

[John Frum]

Sure. But that has not been confirmed on your setup. You said you replaced a factory installed 15A breaker with a 20A for nuisance tripping. You said it is in close proximity, which is good, and it's probly fine, but if it's 14G wire like most RV's, it might heat up when your charger is charging at full current and thereby drawing full current.
You can run whatever you want in your rig, I'm simply suggesting you set it up on full charge and probe everything with a laser thermometer to make sure nothing is overheating. Simple deal, for rest assured state of mind.

Let's move on....that MeanWell charger sure works awesome! LOL
Pulled the powermax unit out, plugged it in, works perfectly - sold it on ebay.

If you have a 14 awg circuit that nuisance trips swapping in a 20 amp breaker is not a good idea.
Is this a single load circuit and the load has a nema 5-15 plug then I would seriously look at that load?
Sorry I've not read the whole 400+ posts.
Just to be clear are we talking about a powermax converter with a nema 5-15 plug tripping a 15 amp breaker?
If yes, that would be a scenario to not handwave away.

 

[Browneye]

Exactly. Hopefully @Butcher has it all worked out.

 

[Browneye]

I also got a reply today from TRC Electronics on the Meanwell chargers, regarding charge termination and loads, and reboost.

As suspected, with 2-stage charging, current is terminated when the battery is full, when current drops to 5%. Actually, in testing it out, it drops a little lower before shutting off - at about 10-12 watts. The 'gel' setting is perfect for my pack, 14.0V bulk, to near zero current, and terminate. Conceivably you could park at a RV park with a low battery, plug in, turn the charger on, and walk away - it would charge it back to full and stop.

The question was if there are loads is there a potential to never stop charging. The answer is YES, it would carry the loads after charging the battery(s). They suggested their SBP-001 programmer and setup a timer that terminates charging after a time, regardless of current. They suggested like 100 hours to prevent indefinite charging.

The other question was if there was a re-boost - will the charger start the charge cycle over at a certain battery voltage. The answer was 'no'. It terminates charging and stops, so it would have to be power-cycled to start charging again.

I'm okay with both because we really only use this charger on an as-need basis, not in any automated sort of way. The solar panels keep up with usage, and if we drive at all then the Orion DCtoDC also charges. Having the Meanwell charger on a switched outlet makes it more convenient to manage.

Just FYI...for anyone interested in the alternatives to the Powermax converter/chargers, or any of the others as well, i.e.; IOTA, Progressive Dynamics, Wafco, etc.

 

[triplethreat]

If you have a 14 awg circuit that nuisance trips swapping in a 20 amp breaker is not a good idea.
Is this a single load circuit and the load has a nema 5-15 plug then I would seriously look at that load.
Sorry I've not read the whole 400+ posts.
Just to be clear are we talking about a powermax converter with a nema 5-15 plug tripping a 15 amp breaker?
If yes, that would be a scenario to not handwave away.

Exactly the point I was trying to make about having the proper size wire from the breaker to the recept......until Texas-Mark jumped in and told me that I was "making it a big deal".....which it might be if 14ga wire is involved instead of 12ga. wire.

 

[Browneye]

It sounds more like he has some kind of pigtail off the panel or something - "the wiring is part of the receptacle, with a UL tag rated at 20A".
[shrug]

 

[John Frum]

It sounds more like he has some kind of pigtail off the panel or something - "the wiring is part of the receptacle, with a UL tag rated at 20A".
[shrug]

I don't think powermax was original equipment in any rv.
AFAIK they are all aftermarket deckmount converters so pigtails would be surprising. Maybe the installer just cut the plug off the converter.

 

[Butcher]

This is the wiring diagram of my panel. Notice in the center of the picture there is a '20A receptacle'. Notice that the green wire is attached to ground. The white wire is attached to neutral. Notice the black wire is not attached.

The black wire was attached to a 15A breaker. It is now attached to a 20A breaker. The wires are part of the receptacle and cannot be replaced. A simple swap of the breaker and I am done. Those that are concerned about my well being can be assured I will sleep well and not be concerned about a melt down.

I hope this picture makes it easier for those that do not understand my English.

 

[Browneye]

Here's another diagram of the 8930/50 wfco distribution panel. It does have a20A receptacle built in. The assumption is that it could be connected to a 20A breaker in the same panel.

https://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/UPDATED-WFCO_63_8930_50_POWER_CENTER_10-with-space.pdf

They are GE slimline breakers.

 

[John Frum]

Here's another diagram of the 8930/50 wfco distribution panel. It does have a20A receptacle built in. The assumption is that it could be connected to a 20A breaker in the same panel.

https://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/UPDATED-WFCO_63_8930_50_POWER_CENTER_10-with-space.pdf

They are GE slimline breakers.

Since the receptacle is nema 5-20 then it should be wired into the panel with 12 awg and terminate on a 20 amp breaker.
And if the Powermax has a 5-15 plug then it should not trip a 15 amp breaker.

 

[Butcher]

I would agree 100% but does a breaker really break at 15A and does the Powermax really consume 15A? If both are true, then I can see an intermittent issue arising. I cannot see any engineer design a circuit that will knowingly have a consistent 15A load and install a 15 breaker or fuse.

I do appreciate codes and specs but I also understand that moving a terminal sideways would not change the current the connector is capable. The only difference is angle of the terminal, not the actual size. I do understand the wiring size, but I'm talking about strictly the terminal orientation. I am totally satisfied how the wiring is in my 5th wheel. The wire gauge is correct for 20A.

To be fair, I never actually checked the current draw. I could have had a weak breaker. I could have a faulty converter. I rarely shot gun parts but using a bit of common sense, I just assumed that the highest load this converter will draw is slightly above the 15A breaker.

I think I have derailed this thread too much so I will now bow out. I shared what I did. I shared my thoughts on my decision and I'm ok if people think I am just a butcher.

 

[John Frum]

To be fair, I never actually checked the current draw. I could have had a weak breaker.

That is what I would rule out first.
A 15 amp thermal breaker should run at 100% rating for quite some time.

I could have a faulty converter. I rarely shot gun parts but using a bit of common sense, I just assumed that the highest load this converter will draw is slightly above the 15A breaker.

A converter with a nema 5-15 plug should pull no more than 12 amps continuous because of the 80% continuous service rule.

 

[Browneye]

A converter with a nema 5-15 plug should pull no more than 12 amps continuous because of the 80% continuous service rule.

Powermax runs fast and loose. It DOES have a 5-15 plug, and it IS rated at 1460 watts or 15A. It only pulls full current if it is charging at full current.

I'm a little confused why the wfco panel would come with a 20A receptacle for a converter/charger, connected to a 15A breaker. There even seems to be at least one 20A breaker in that panel.

My bet is there's 6 or 8awg wire from the converter to the panel/battery for the 12V feed, rated for a 50A charger as well. So at full current, you could well overloading those wires, they could get pretty hot. I bet 4awg wire won't even fit in there. I also bet there's no fusing for the 12V leads from the charger.

I would still put a laser thermometer on the whole setup at full tilt, just to make sure. The RV industry does some pretty flakey stuff.

 

[Butcher]

I bought a 300A breaker for my inverter and you would expect it to blow around 300A. After 4 of them, I found all of them were junk. One of them had voltage drop of 1.5v. I went with a fuse.

I get that things should have the proper rating and should work like they are advertised. I just know that is not always true.

I do know that my 100A converter has a 5-15 plug. I have seen currents delivered to my batteries at 95A. I suspect that Powermax is pushing over that 80% continuous rule.

 

[HRTKD]

On my WFCO panel (circa 2005/2006), 6 gauge wire into the panel from the battery was the largest I could use.

I installed a 55 amp IOTA Engineering converter that spec'd a 15 amp circuit. Any higher rated converter from them required a 20 amp circuit. I ran the cables directly from the converter to the common bus bar instead of going through the WFCO panel like the old converter did.

 

[Butcher]

WFCO does come with a 20A receptacle but does not come with a 15A breaker. That is done by the RV industry. That is how I would do it. Better that way than to make two different parts and the hassles with inventory.

The majority of my converter load is to charge the batteries. If you really think about it, there is very few 12v amps going in and out of the panel. Lights [mostly LED now], slides [not a continuous load], radio, heater blower, fans, etc. I do not know but I would be surprised to see anywhere close to 10-15A continuous and no more than 30A if all the slides were operating at the same time.

When I did install the converter, I have a separate cable going strictly to the batteries. It does not go through the electrical panel. I did leave the stock power supply wire from the converter to the distribution panel. I did not increase any demand their.

 

[John Frum]

I'm a little confused why the wfco panel would come with a 20A receptacle for a converter/charger, connected to a 15A breaker.

It is a bit strange.
As long as the wire is 14 awg or larger then a 15 amp breaker will protect it.
If I recall correctly WFCO power centers are UL listed.

 

[John Frum]

"All models are UL® and cUL® listed and FCC Class B compliant." -- https://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/UPDATED-WFCO_45_9500_POWER_CENTER.pdf