Newbie comment on rant

[lostinabox]

With the matter of the senate, originally it was the state legislatures that voted for senators, and the people (depending on time period) who voted on representatives. Then a constitutional amendment was passed requiring senators to also be elected by popular vote. Nothing addressing the new imbalance that was created as a result was added to that amendment. Forefathers be facepalming if they saw this.

As for the question of who actually believes that ubi is a good idea? I know a guy who thinks that everyone should get $2k a month. Apparently that will spur innovation. While i would agree that it would certainly open a door for a number of people to create things, the US economy is simply not structured for this. Maybe when our robot overlords take over, but until then just look at what's happening today. People are not going back to work. Compare this to the aftermath of 2008 when people wanted to get back into the workforce.

Meanwhile the corporation that i work for made record profits last year. What did we get for busting our butts during the covid panic? Let's just say that if i had any thoughts of trickle down economics working, they would have been quashed here.

I don't know the solutions. I think that corporations and banks need to be reigned in. Automatic voter registration should be implemented (but won't imo because of how we're encouraged to pick a political party during registration.) Innovation should be made much more public through events and workshops, make it less abstract and more "real" for people, not just something where we read a short internet article on, watch a two minute video, then move on to the next thing.

Well, that was all over the place. /rant

 

[Cdkipp]

In my experience, the ones paying the taxes aren't the ones in the large population centers. Large population centers seem to me to be almost always corrupt.

I had a lot more of a response, but decided we are already WAY too far into politics so I deleted it before posting ..... and won't make any further responses to a political argument.

This isn't really true. https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/#red-vs-blue https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...more-to-federal-government-than-they-get-back

 

[Hedges]

Automatic voter registration should be implemented (but won't imo because of how we're encouraged to pick a political party during registration.)

Maybe implement a poll tax? Or only let money vote on money?

In places like San Francisco, the tenants have voting majority and can implement rent control. Tenants can vote for taxes on property.
I think only property owners should be able to vote for taxes on property. Only income-earners should be able to vote for taxes on income.
Passage of rent control should constitute an offer by government to purchase said rental property at present market value (no confiscation of private property for public good without compensation.)

 

[lostinabox]

Maybe implement a poll tax? Or only let money vote on money?

Wut?

 

[Cdkipp]

So the State having equal Representation is more important to you than the People having equal Representation, yet the people are the ones paying the Taxes!
I wonder how well this would play out with the GOP if Puerto Rico, The Virgin Island and America Samoa were suddenly added into the mix, I wonder if the tune would be the same if six more Senators from tiny Islands were suddenly added to the Senate. Add the Hawaiin vote to the mix and you would have eight votes that would almost always guarantee the Direction the country would take.

This is true. There are unintended consequences with how the constitution was set up and how the nation ultimately developed. It is also telling only half the story to attribute a founders' intent to protect "rural" states in the structure of Senate and electoral college when the intent was in large part to prevent non-slave owning northern states from imposing their will on southern states.

 

[Hedges]

Wut?

Do you think my tenants should be able to have the government set rent for a property I purchased and have to pay to maintain?

How about, I ask a price for rent. You offer a price for rent. If we make an agreement, I rent it to you for the agreed price and the agreed duration. At end of the lease, process repeats.

Do you work for wages? How would you like if employers could have government set your pay, and require you to keep working for that employer, not be allowed to switch to a new job paying more?

Any difference between rent control and wage caps?

 

[lostinabox]

This isn't really true. https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/#red-vs-blue https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2020-05-15/some-states-like-new-york-send-billions-more-to-federal-government-than-they-get-bac

Do you think my tenants should be able to have the government set rent for a property I purchased and have to pay to maintain?

How about, I ask a price for rent. You offer a price for rent. If we make an agreement, I rent it to you for the agreed price and the agreed duration. At end of the lease, process repeats.

Do you work for wages? How would you like if employers could have government set your pay, and require you to keep working for that employer, not be allowed to switch to a new job paying more?

Any difference between rent control and wage caps?

What does this have to do with voter registration?

I'm pro free market with enough regulation to maintain a sense of sanity in it all. These things of which you speak are not sane.

Edit: ugh, didn't intend to quote two posts.

 

[Sanwizard]

Maybe implement a poll tax? Or only let money vote on money?

In places like San Francisco, the tenants have voting majority and can implement rent control. Tenants can vote for taxes on property.
I think only property owners should be able to vote for taxes on property. Only income-earners should be able to vote for taxes on income.
Passage of rent control should constitute an offer by government to purchase said rental property at present market value (no confiscation of private property for public good without compensation.)

Anyone on the government dole should NOT be allowed to vote. Only US citizens allowed. No voting for bread and circus. ID mandatory. I person mandatory. Ink on finger mandatory. One person One vote.
Anything or anyone

 

[Cdkipp]

Anyone on the government dole should NOT be allowed to vote. Only US citizens allowed. No voting for bread and circus. ID mandatory. I person mandatory. Ink on finger mandatory. One person One vote.
Anything or anyone

How do you define government dole? Almost every farmer gets subsidy. Every parent gets tax credit. Every person with health insurance gets subsidy either passed on through their employer. Many of us have benefitted from solar-related subsidies. We all benefit from public roads, public schools, infrastructure.

 

[Sanwizard]

How do you define government dole? Almost every farmer gets subsidy. Every parent gets tax credit. Every person with health insurance gets subsidy either passed on through their employer. Many of us have benefitted from solar-related subsidies. We all benefit from public roads, public schools, infrastructure.

That's your tax dollars you paid in coming to you. Dole is welfare, food programs, public housing, California UBI, illegal alien benefits, and any other benefit provided to folks too lazy to work or not a US citizen.

What you shared is the government taking less of the money you sent in, or lower taxes. We don't benefit from public roads, schools, and infrastructure, we FUND it. In fact, we fund ALL government spending. They are spending YOUR money. 90% of what they spend is wasteful or corrupt, and if not taxed from you, our economy would explode higher.

 

[Cdkipp]

That's your tax dollars you paid in coming to you. Dole is welfare, food programs, public housing, California UBI, illegal alien benefits, and any other benefit provided to folks too lazy to work or not a US citizen.

What you shared is the government taking less of the money you sent in, or lower taxes. We don't benefit from public roads, schools, and infrastructure, we FUND it. In fact, we fund ALL government spending. They are spending YOUR money. 90% of what they spend is wasteful or corrupt, and if not taxed from you, our economy would explode higher.

Well, a lot of people get benefits that exceed what they work for though. Don't they? You say 90% of government spending is wasteful or corrupt. Only about 8% of the federal budget goes to safety net programs. A lot of that money goes to CHIP programs for children, disabled people including mentally disabled people, utility supplements, and food supplements. What about people that get federal assistance for education. Should these people never be able to vote or only be able to vote when not getting assistance? A very large portion of [ep[le that get state assistance. What should we do with people that can't make enough to reach the poverty level even though working? Should they not vote? Should they only get a 3/5th vote like the slaves? https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/where-do-our-federal-tax-dollars-go

 

[lostinabox]

deleted by poster

 

[Sanwizard]

Well, a lot of people get benefits that exceed what they work for though. Don't they? You say 90% of government spending is wasteful or corrupt. Only about 8% of the federal budget goes to safety net programs. A lot of that money goes to CHIP programs for children, disabled people including mentally disabled people, utility supplements, and food supplements. What about people that get federal assistance for education. Should these people never be able to vote or only be able to vote when not getting assistance? A very large portion of [ep[le that get state assistance. What should we do with people that can't make enough to reach the poverty level even though working? Should they not vote? Should they only get a 3/5th vote like the slaves? https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/where-do-our-federal-tax-dollars-go

With the 4 trillion they want to spend this year on "infrastructure" to "build back better", we could literally pave highways in silver and gold. That's your hard earned money. That could feed a lot of people.

 

[Sanwizard]

With the 4 trillion they want to spend this year on "infrastructure" to "build back better", we could literally pave highways in silver and gold. That's your hard earned money. That could feed a lot of people.

I am done with the rant thread. Half the country wants to be like Cuba, and the other half wants the constitution back. We will never change each others minds.

I say dont worry, be happy! God loves ya!

 

[Cdkipp]

With the 4 trillion they want to spend this year on "infrastructure" to "build back better", we could literally pave highways in silver and gold. That's your hard earned money. That could feed a lot of people.

You are not answering the questions though.

 

[Cdkipp]

I am done with the rant thread. Half the country wants to be like Cuba, and the other half wants the constitution back. We will never change each others minds.

I say dont worry, be happy! God loves ya!

Interesting. I never met anyone that wants to be Cuba. I have never encountered any progressive that wants the US to be a true socialist country.

 

[Sanwizard]

Interesting. I never met anyone that wants to be Cuba. I have never encountered any progressive that wants the US to be a true socialist country.

Then you have led a very sheltered life. Just ask most Bernie supporters, media types, professors, journalists, democrat socialists of america, AOC, Antifa, etc.

 

[Sanwizard]

Then you have led a very sheltered life. Just ask most Bernie supporters, media types, professors, journalists, democrat socialists of america, AOC, Antifa, etc.

Maddona, Sean Penn.....

 

[Cdkipp]

Maddona, Sean Penn.....

No socialism is the centralized ownership and control of the economy. AOC, Bernie, and the others you mention want a regulated democratic socialist structure that is not either true capitalism or socialism. They want a heavily regulated capitalist structure with a significant safety net. Virtually every northern American wants some variation of this. It is just a matter of where you draw the line. Absolute capitalism works in young economies but as the economy ages, it will fail without controlling monopolies and regulating the excesses. The throwing of labels at folks is a big reason we have so much strife right now. Adam Smith is the father of modern economics, capitalism, and/or free-market economics. He is the one that talked about the invisible hand laissez-faire economics. However, what is often misunderstood is that he said that for capitalism to function properly it needed to be controlled. You need a level playing field. The United States functioned best with a healthy middle class. Socialism would squash market incentives but at the same time unrestrained corporations without meaningful regulation also destroy capitalism and rob man of dignity. As Adam Smith said: “Wherever there is great property there is great inequality. For one very rich man there must be at least five hundred poor, and the affluence of the few supposes the indigence of the many.” He also said: “Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.” So can we call him a socialist??????? Of course not. He is the father of capitalism. Another way we could look at the world today is that the people that don't want the rules of the game to be changed are the people that are winning.

 

[robby]

Then you have led a very sheltered life. Just ask most Bernie supporters, media types, professors, journalists, democrat socialists of america, AOC, Antifa, etc.

This statement is exactly what is wrong with our politics and attitude. We now deal in Absolutes!
Bernie Sanders does not want America to become a communist or socialist country, what he is saying is that some aspects of a socialist country are actually good for the people, things like universal Healthcare and more equal wages between the wealthy and the middle class. I agree on that point as it has been proven in the Scandinavian countries that you can have A++ Universal Health care and better wealth distribution.
You do know we had a system in place for hundreds of years that kept the wealth gap in check. Up until the 1960's we had a Tax rate of 91% on multi millionaires. The lowering of this is what has lead to all the billionaires in America and the massive inequality in pay.

Sadly though our thinking has now been lowered to the point that we now believe that if someone is not 100% with us they are against us, so divided we stand while the very rich keep on raking it in and the countries that don't like us all that much get bigger and more powerful.