NEWS: New Midnite Solar DIY Series - SCC's & Inverters (great $ too)

[Will Prowse]

Is this really a fair statement? You've tested the Renogy, correct? Have you tested the MidNite version?

I see Renogy here:

Is the issue with the internal components, or is the issue with the firmware?

Is there really no expectation of a better product from MidNite vs. Renogy?

Is Sol-Ark no better than Deye?

Sure, having better software is important. And I have been sent numerous all in one prototypes that performed horribly because they did not have the same software as MPP or Growatt, even though they looked identical.

But that was not really my point. It is a cheap unit. The terminal blocks, the lack of mounting options for the bottom of the unit, the screen and overall build quality is awful. I expect MUCH better from midnite solar. I have always liked their products, and using a relabeled unit that everyone else is selling seems out of character. Especially a low quality product. You should buy it and look at it. It is not impressive at all.

I am ignorant on Deye. They look nice! But I have nothing to say in a comparison against Sol Ark. Are they both produced by one company?

 

[rhino]

fyi, here is the manual for the charge controller on Amazon Will linked to: https://content-na.drive.amazonaws....QM_IiCCceJxFPc/alt/pdf?ownerId=A17W26ZXUKVKHY

And here is the Midnite one:

https://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/10-528-1_REV-MNMPPT60DIY_Manual.pdf

 

[Will Prowse]

There are so many relabeled units these days. Is it really worth the time to review an identical product over and over until someone finds a way to make it work? And is the increased suggested retail price really justified? The cost of the midnite is hundreds of dollars more than identical models.

 

[Steve_S]

There are so many relabeled units these days. Is it really worth the time to review an identical product over and over until someone finds a way to make it work? And is the increased suggested retail price really justified? The cost of the midnite is hundreds of dollars more than identical models.

Made in USA Label = add 400% retail markup.
Assembled in USA Label = add 200% retail markup
Made in China = add 100-200% Markup or more if you can relabel it and stick a US Brand Label on it.

I questioned the HF point with Midnite and got a lame response.

I am disappointed in Midnite doing this now, with a simple relabelling of a piece of kit. I thought at first (hoped I guess) that it was designed by Midnite and that they simply sub-contracted it to a big OEM to produce it with their specs, which would have been far more acceptable IMO. There are MANY Companies in China that will happily build things to Client Specifications and they do so for everyone.

 

[rhino]

Introducing this DIY line that is just a relabel makes me wonder if Midnite is having cash flow issues so they had to do something like this quickly.

 

[snoobler]

Sure, having better software is important. And I have been sent numerous all in one prototypes that performed horribly because they did not have the same software as MPP or Growatt, even though they looked identical.

But that was not really my point. It is a cheap unit. The terminal blocks, the lack of mounting options for the bottom of the unit, the screen and overall build quality is awful. I expect MUCH better from midnite solar. I have always liked their products, and using a relabeled unit that everyone else is selling seems out of character. Especially a low quality product. You should buy it and look at it. It is not impressive at all.

I am ignorant on Deye. They look nice! But I have nothing to say in a comparison against Sol Ark. Are they both produced by one company?

Deye makes the Sol-Ark, but I believe the Sol-Ark is unique, i.e., Deye may make it, but Sol-Ark owns that specific design, and it is only produced for Sol-Ark though Deye makes similar units.

As you can see from my sig and my various pontifications, I'm a Victron snob, so you don't need to convince me of the low quality stuff. However, I don't see a distinction between the unit in question, MPP Solar or Growatt.

Maybe that's not fair since I've only seen the Growatt 3K, but even then I didn't pay much attention to quality. I simply looked down my nose at it.

I guess I want to assume that a Tier-1 supplier willing to put their name on it hasn't just relabeled it but has either "tweaked" the build quality or at the very least has stricter incoming quality requirements (testing, etc.).

 

[ewb]

Anyone have more info. on the Barcelona CC? Is the inverter mentioned above AKA Rosie? The Barcelona sheet says "Built in Arlington, WA USA" FWIW.

 

[JoeHam]

Anyone have more info. on the Barcelona CC? Is the inverter mentioned above AKA Rosie? The Barcelona sheet says "Built in Arlington, WA USA" FWIW.

Here is the latest on all that and more :

The most interesting takeaways for me were:

The next batch of DIY AIO units will be stackable and UL blessed. Current ones are not.

The split phase AIO will include a 500v MPPT.

Some transistor components they use have a 60 WEEK lead time. Yikes !

And, they seem to have a very collegial relationship with SMA and Fronius.

 

[rhino]

The most interesting takeaways for me were:

Only 1 year warranty on the DIY inverters, which is no surprise given what we know now.

It sounds like they are getting closer to a lot of the new hardware they have been working on for years but it felt like even when I followed their forums they had been "getting close" for a long time.. and is why I finally had to give up on waiting for their new stuff 6 months ago and started switching over to all Victron equipment when updating my system. I got tired of waiting and/or their inability to clearly articulate the REAL status of where they were in the development process. I'd be surprised if we see any of the new USA made hardware before 2022.

Edit: I had been a strong Outback/Midnite proponent for a long time so that is why I feel somewhat let down by how all of this was handled (and the introduction of relabeled hardware which seems so wrong for them). I still will have a VFX3648 as backup since it has been working flawlessly for 15(?) years now.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

Is this really a fair statement? You've tested the Renogy, correct? Have you tested the MidNite version?

I see Renogy here:

Is the issue with the internal components, or is the issue with the firmware?

Is there really no expectation of a better product from MidNite vs. Renogy?

Is Sol-Ark no better than Deye?

Sol Ark is not worth the price. I actually saw on in action. Its exactly what David poz experienced when he tested it on his utube channel.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

I think I should also mention or support the others that requested will to actually test one of these units. Just to clear doubts.
Additionally, I also had the opportunity look at the performance of the Phocos line of all in one's they are pretty good but a bit too pricey for my pocket.

 

[snoobler]

I think I should also mention or support the others that requested will to actually test one of these units. Just to clear doubts.
Additionally, I also had the opportunity look at the performance of the Phocos line of all in one's they are pretty good but a bit too pricey for my pocket.

Isn't the Phocos just another Voltronics unit (MPP Solar) with a reputable company name on it?

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

Isn't the Phocos just another Voltronics unit (MPP Solar) with a reputable company name on it?

I really don't know. A major difference with them is that they have sugre capabilities and performs to the name plate. I know the Mpp units does not have surge capabilities.
Even if they are Voltronics or Mpp they have some difference that is noticible in performance and make.
All the more reason for testing actual units.

 

[snoobler]

I really don't know. A major difference with them is that they have sugre capabilities and performs to the name plate. I know the Mpp units does not have surge capabilities.
Even if they are Voltronics or Mpp they have some difference that is noticible in performance and make.
All the more reason for testing actual units.

Do you have evidence to support this claim?

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

Well i have a shot mpp unit. Other units are from some friends and associates
who have them

 

[Will Prowse]

Well i have a shot mpp unit. Other units are from some friends and associates
who have them

Can you show us? They are easy to work on. What component failed?

 

[Tecnodave]

Yup, just disappointing.......The Best Sun aka Fution powerwall I have sitting on my bench has the same inverter/charger as the one in @Will Prowse you tube video, it is a different model but the layout, display, external ports are identical. Im trashing the whole unit except for the LFP cells. Just looking at it i knew it was low quality, There was no original manufacturer sticker, just a vanilla label with a Best Sun label glued on it.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

Can you show us? They are easy to work on. What component failed?

Yesi I will. Even ordered a replacement part

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

So this is what I am getting from this mpp pip 5048mg.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

I am unable to post the video but it keeps cycling from "NE" to error code 81 as show and of course powers down after 30 secs.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

Now get one in hand, crack it open and have a look at what's inside & who made it.
I have also seen many devices use similar or identical "cases" much like PC's but with quite different guts internally.
Appearance is not really much of an indicator. A possible clue but not an certainty.

That having been said, maybe a few remember the Wind Turbines that Midnite sold for "a little while", which well turned out to be... shall we say politely as "quite a dissapointment". That wasn't good.... that cost them a pile...

I can say that my Midnite Classic-200 has been a wonderful SCC and their E-Panels etc are Top Notch. I can also say they are very slow at R&D to Market and as such they are getting "Long in the Tooth" as other Tier-1 Companies are moving forward at a much faster rate.

Well I must agree here because like you I was optimistic of their wind turbine. I don't know how much this forum thread is saying but I still support a full one test

NEWS: New Midnite Solar DIY Series - SCC's & Inverters (great $ too) - Small Cabin Forum

www.small-cabin.com

 

[Robin Gudgel]

I wrote directly to Will, but have not heard a reply yet. I really like this forum. I plan on being on it a bit in the future. I would like to make a few comments though about MidNite and the DIY series.
Some say this is a game changer. I disagree. These products and a few more to come next year are made for MidNite by SRNE. They fill a gap where we cannot compete. They re not low quality crappy Chinese products at all. We have been testing them for years. You will see over time the big divergence between SRNE standard products and the MidNite DIY versions. More and more of our engineering suggestions are making it into the DIY series. One other difference is that you have the backing and tech support of MidNite Solar. We have also designed special E-PAnels to go with the DIY all in one inverters since they now will be coming in with ETL approval. It is usually not possible to connect any Chinese inverter to meet NEC without something like our E-Panels. The E-Panels must be made to fit the specific inverter. (No exposed wires or cables).
Someone was concerned that this might be the beginning of the end for MidNite. No, it is not!! We have many new (made in America) products being introduced into the marketplace this year and into next. 600V 90, 120 and 200 amp charge controllers (Barcelona and Hawke's Bay). 15000W B17 hot swappable inverter/MPPT. 10KWH B17B lithium hot swappable battery system. Rosie stand alone inverter/charger. Sunspec compliant module and string level Rapid Shutdown system components. Bluetooth dongle for Classics, Linux based ComBox for internet connectivity.
DIY 5KW split phase with high voltage MPPT next March.
Thanks,
Robin Gudgel
President
MidNite Solar

 

[Steve_S]

PING at @Will Prowse as we now are hearing directly from the Boss @ Midnite, let's have at it and rip one open and do a forensic review.
I honestly hope that everything coming out of Midnite is the same reliable quality as my Classic-200 which is quite a Champ in its own right! But also hopefully not as Clay Footed ...
The Software Certificate has failed for years (see auto update function) no LFP Default Profile, the fans are a PITA to replace (that sounds worse than it is but still a PITA) .. Have to replace mine very soon and may just go with ball bearing versions so they will be quieter and last a lot longer. I'm also still a tad ticked off that I had to BUY a WinzBangJr even though I mailed in the certificate for a free one which was never acknowledged.

 

[Robin Gudgel]

Steve in Ontario, I don't know what happened regarding your free Whizbang? Since you had to buy one, I would like to give you a free SPD or something like that to help make up for it. E-mail directly. robin@midnitesolar.com
We switched fan manufacturers about 3 years ago on the Classic. They have always been dual ball bearing, but some companies are just better than others. (This forum is great at pointing things like that out). The Pelonis fans we generally use now just don't fail. They are a PITA to replace though. Sorry, that was my design. Fifty some years of designs have shown me that some are better than others. The Classic fans work, but they are not the easiest to replace. All upcoming products have much easier fan replacement. We also do not run the fans at such a high voltage, so they should not fail too. I do not understand the issue about certificate failure. Please contact ryan@midnitesolar.com. Ryan will get you results. I don't think there will be a default lithium battery charge setting on the Classic though. It is extremely flexible and will allow you to properly charge any battery made. Different Lithium chemistries require different charge parameters, so making a default might cause real trouble. We are trying to get some default battery chemistries built into the new MPPT's and chargers, but this will have to be a long list of defaults to get it right. We had to yank boB off the Classic development a few years ago. I figured twelve years is long enough for one project. We had to have him and a dozen other engineers get serious about inverter development. The remaining engineers are also busy on the projects mentioned in my last post. If anyone here gets to come to the SPI solar conference in New Orleans this September, you can see all this new stuff working.
I enjoy talking to real customers like here since I rarely get to do this anymore. We aren't perfect, but we strive to improve all the time. It is tough though as parts are extremely hard to get. We struggle to hire people too. There are 90 employees at MidNite. 22 of which are in engineering. We will need to hire another 50 people within the next year. This worries me. Anyone want a job? We aren't going anywhere! All of our competitors are made offshore now. We still do our manufacturing in Arlington, WA. That is where Trace Engineering started 36 years ago. Now Schneider who bought Trace/Xantrx is made in India and China. OutBack, a company I founded, was also made in Arlington, but now is made in India. Magnum Energy was built ten miles away in Everett. I did a lot of engineering for Magnum on the side as MidNite was getting going. Magnum is now made in Mexico. Samlex has never been made here and neither has Morningstar. The Chinese companies are getting better and better and at this point we decided to partner with SRNE. They are very adaptable for our needs. As I mentioned, we will be able to influence the DIY designs more and more over time, but we need to build up a good relationship. That takes time, so please work with us.

 

[Steve_S]

Hmmm, Samlex = Taiwan no ?
A free what ? I'm all fitted out with epanel and such already with my Samlex EVO4024 hanging on the other side of it. I'll ponder it, was actually contemplating another smaller SCC for the workshed but I'm not going deep on that setup, simple 12V for a few lights and yard equipment battery charging.

I worked out a good LFP profile that works without tripping HVD that works a treat and it was a slog to get there and luckily the Hard Thrash testing provided that solution. I've posted the related info to the Midnite Forum, if anyone uses it or looks, who knows.

Interacting at this level can be quite a positive thing for any company wanting an "on the ground general reference" and as it happens, several of us here have worked collaboratively with Manufacturers to develop, enhance & update their product to better suit our DIY usage & varied use cases. You may be quite surprised to find that some of the users here are Electrical engineers and Knee Deep into this ;-) BUT it is a time consuming this to interact & work with folks on an open forum, as innevitable "chaff" get's tossed in and threads wander. But you would find folks quite willing to participate and dag nabbit, it's great PR too !

Fans can be a serious problem, especially with heat... The folks over at AC-Infinity have some of the best fans going in numerous varieties & flavours and not crazy prices either (retail or wholesale) and silent too, they paid a LOT of attention to that. I'll drop you a line after I'm done coralling the critters who've gone on a "Walkabout"... Always something with critters....

The Certificate, open up your Midnite Status Panel software, goto Config & hit Update. This is what you get,

View Cert Details: