?? Prius battery ??

[Offgrid4life]

Hi all.... So I was gifted a house that my family owns, on approx seven acres. It has ALWAYS been my dream to go off grid. So this seems like a natural opportunity to take an entire house off grid. No river/ streams here because naturally I would be all about micro hydro right off the bat.
Not ready to invest in wind just yet, BUT I am beyond excited about getting a jump on solar this spring. When I was given the property I relocated from FL to New England (Ct.) So I realize that there will be minimal production many days in the winter. I have 6000 watts of inverter generators to suplement.
All of this being said..... my father has a Prius which he wants to scrap, but.... he got a new (used) battery about three years ago. The battery is still in excellent shape, the car and the rest of the engine not so much..... it had a good run lol.
Do I:
- Scrap the car for 300 and put the cash towards my solar investments
- try to utilize the battery and integrate into a solar setup? (Anyone have experience in this? Can these batteries be re-wired to the proper voltage?) I would like to initially start with a 12 volt system as these components are usually the cheapest.
- not bother with the Prius battery at all
Seems like an awful lot of good battery to waste. Figured I would ask if anyone has dealt with these before I go through the hassle of pulling it and disassembly just to find out it isn't practical.
Feel free to email
Aedberginfo@gmail.com

Food for thought..... Also a functioning 220 well pump a few hundred feet in the ground here.... inverter generators are 120 volt only.... thoughts on this?
Thanks all.... stay safe

 

[Remote Power Mania]

Yes, on the 220 pump issue there isn't any good way around that. And you definitely do not want to have an oopsie moment with a motor that is hundreds of feet down a hole! Def. gonna want to get a 220 inverter, not just for the pump but for plenty of other applications too. One thing you can get around is three phase-- if you have 3phase pump and can't find a 3phase inverter there are some good options to deal with that. Perhaps a bigger problem to consider is whether your system will handle the startup of the motor, as currents can skyrocket momentarily and your inverter may not be up for the task.

On the Prius, that sounds like an interesting possibility, but also a huge pain in the rear. Good luck on whatever you decide!

 

[Steve_S]

The battery in the Prius is worth more than the scrap vehicle and it has storage capacity, so pull it out "nicely & cautiously" and keep the electrical's that go with it, the harnesses, relays etc... the relays alone are worth a couple of hundred bucks. Yes, those cells can be adapted for storage, people do it all the time and more cells are available on the market too, so you can build out more too with a similar base.

240V Split Phase (North American default) isn't hard to do, there is a myriad of inverters that do it. They can run from 24 & up battery based systems. Depending on the loads you anticipate to run what you want, you will have to size the inverter towards that goal and then decide on battery voltage. Typically, 4000W is the upper edge for 24VDC battery banks after that most use 48VC battery banks. 4000W ÷ 24VDC = 166A, 4000W ÷ 48VDC = 83.3A. when you start looking at wiring, relays, hardware and all that is involved, it is most prudent to keep the amp draw low, especially if you have higher loads.

To figure out how much power will be used, you may start looking at the past Power Bills for the property to see how many kWh per day / per months & across the seasons was used on that property. BUT remember that is with what the previous people had, their habits & uses, that's not necessarily going to reflect "your" potential use.... Then you'll need to work out what your loading will be.

Solar is easy enough and DON'T GET HUNG UP ON LOCATION, you are NOT that far north, Go another 1000 miles north and you'll find many of us on Solar Only. You can buy New Panels or Good Used Panels for amazing prices.

 

[Byron W Pearce]

I think it would be most excellent if Will put together a video series detailing the complete process of converting a Prius batter module for off-grid use, e.g. Safety Overview, Tools & Technique, In-vehicle Battery Module testing, Removal, Modifications, Installation & Integration.

I'd pay for it!

bwp

 

[Ampster]

That would be a first. What little I know of that battery is that it is not suited for off grid use. I believe it is Nickel Metal Hydride and the cells are 1.2 volts. Toyota has moved on to Lithium chemistry in the Prius Plug In.

 

[snoobler]

I pray Will has no such notion. Ever. Never Ever Ever.

A Prius battery or any other hybrid/EV NiMH-based battery is essentially worthless for off-grid storage unless you want to build an absurdly complex and inefficient charging system.

NiMH can't be paralleled due to the full charge voltage characteristics. NiMH cells experience a voltage drop when they are fully charged. If you parallel NiMH cells and one of the groups hits full charge, it's voltage drops. Thus ALL current from the charger and ALL parallel cells start dumping their current into the already full cell. As it heats, it's voltage drops further. This is called thermal runaway. The process stops when the cell ruptures or shorts.

The only way NiMH can be used is if you have parallel strings separated by diodes that prevent back flow into each other. This necessitates that each individual parallel string have its own charger.

Prius modules are six cell subpacks. 42 cells in series would give a 42-58.8V operating range, would have 42*1.2V*6.5Ah=.33kWh

Each .33kWh string would need to be separated from other parallel 42 cell strings with a diode, and would need its own charger. 6.6kw built from 5 Prius packs would require 20 chargers, and an active cooling system is needed as the cells get warm as they approach 100% SoC.

Additionally there is NO balancing nickel on a cell basis (do you want to balance 168*5 = 840 cells?), and the primary mode of failure of a NiMH cell is excessive self discharge that leads to a nearly shorted cell. The only way to balance them is a 0.1C charge for about 16 hours. Managing charging would be very difficult. Stability of each 42 cell string would be marginal.

Discharge would be a breeze. Nickel loves high discharge current. The described battery could discharge 20kW very easily for about 15 minutes and 100kW for about 2 minutes with only mild strain.

For the love of all that is holy... never try to use a Prius pack for off-grid storage unless you're just looking for a high effort/low reward project.

 

[Delmar]

The stock Prius battery is 350V (edit 202V). Someday someone (hint hint) will create a HVDC inverter that can be powered direct from a hybrid car. The amps would minimal. Reliable labels their as up to 110VDC.

Would be awesome to leave the stock battery pack in the car and use the engine as a recharge generator. There has to be a market for this.

Edit: naturally I found the oddball Prius Prime.

 

[Ampster]

Would be awesome to leave the stock battery pack in the car and use the engine as a recharge generator

Several people have done that. They were underwhelmed with the results.

 

[Delmar]

Several people have done that. They were underwhelmed with the results.

Using the 12V accessory power or the 350V motor power?

 

[snoobler]

The stock Prius battery is 350V. Someday someone (hint hint) will create a HVDC inverter that can be powered direct from a hybrid car. The amps would minimal. Reliable labels their as up to 110VDC.

Would be awesome to leave the stock battery pack in the car and use the engine as a recharge generator. There has to be a market for this.

Stock Prius battery is 202V.
MG1 is about 15kW

 

[Delmar]

https://insideevs.com/news/336063/d...f-the-2017-toyota-prius-li-ion-battery-video/

Edit: naturally I found the oddball Prius Prime.

 

[snoobler]

When you say Prius, you have to be more specific. The vast majority of all Prius' produced from 2004 to 2018 use a 202V NiMH pack. The pack you referenced isn't standard on all 2017 Prius either.

That's also a Prius Prime - the plug in hybrid. Those aren't very common.

 

[Ampster]

Using the 12V accessory power or the 350V motor power?

The motor.
Will has made a Video about using the Tesla 12v battery as an inverter source. Since the DC to DC inverter is at least 100 Amps that is a viable source to run some lights and a refrigerator during a brown out for a few hours. As @snoobler implied, the Prius battery is old technology.

 

[snoobler]

The motor.
Will has made a Video about using the Tesla 12v battery as an inverter source. Since the DC to DC inverter is at least 100 Amps that is a viable source to run some lights and a refrigerator during a brown out for a few hours. The Prius is old technology.

The Prius will function very nicely as an 800W power source for as long as it has gas in its tank.

 

[Ampster]

The Prius will function very nicely as an 800W power source for as long as it has gas in its tank.

If I remember correctly, one issue is finding a 200 vdc inverter.

 

[Trukinbear]

If I remember correctly, one issue is finding a 200 vdc inverter.

Use a solar charge controller! OR use a string inverter like a Sunny Boy.

We've got three of them (Prii) and have toyed with all the above ideas.

Aside from the batteries which are worth something, there are about 6 or 8 computers on board, the headlight height sensor, maybe HID ballasts, even some of the dash plastic brings good money.

THE CATALYST IS WORTH $1500 = people steal them and leave the car behind

 

[snoobler]

Use a solar charge controller! OR use a string inverter like a Sunny Boy.

We've got three of them (Prii) and have toyed with all the above ideas.

Aside from the batteries which are worth something, there are about 6 or 8 computers on board, the headlight height sensor, maybe HID ballasts, even some of the dash plastic brings good money.

THE CATALYST IS WORTH $1500 = people steal them and leave the car behind

Pack voltage can easily bust 250V under charge. IF you could ALWAYS keep it loaded during charge, it would probably be fine. The Midnite Solar 250 has that standby mode if it busts 250V, it goes dormant until the voltage drops. That would work. Higher voltage ones would be great of course, and the 600V units are about the same price as the MN solar... so ... nice!

You could easily feed a 3-4kW (202V@20A) inverter at full power as long as you have gas. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is grossly less efficient than a 4kW generator, but hey... it's quiet, and it has its own air conditioner if you want to kick back in the genny...

You're right on the cats, but that's for both the upper AND lower.

 

[Will Prowse]

I pray Will has no such notion. Ever. Never Ever Ever.

A Prius battery or any other hybrid/EV NiMH-based battery is essentially worthless for off-grid storage unless you want to build an absurdly complex and inefficient charging system.

NiMH can't be paralleled due to the full charge voltage characteristics. NiMH cells experience a voltage drop when they are fully charged. If you parallel NiMH cells and one of the groups hits full charge, it's voltage drops. Thus ALL current from the charger and ALL parallel cells start dumping their current into the already full cell. As it heats, it's voltage drops further. This is called thermal runaway. The process stops when the cell ruptures or shorts.

The only way NiMH can be used is if you have parallel strings separated by diodes that prevent back flow into each other. This necessitates that each individual parallel string have its own charger.

Prius modules are six cell subpacks. 42 cells in series would give a 42-58.8V operating range, would have 42*1.2V*6.5Ah=.33kWh

Each .33kWh string would need to be separated from other parallel 42 cell strings with a diode, and would need its own charger. 6.6kw built from 5 Prius packs would require 20 chargers, and an active cooling system is needed as the cells get warm as they approach 100% SoC.

Additionally there is NO balancing nickel on a cell basis (do you want to balance 168*5 = 840 cells?), and the primary mode of failure of a NiMH cell is excessive self discharge that leads to a nearly shorted cell. The only way to balance them is a 0.1C charge for about 16 hours. Managing charging would be very difficult. Stability of each 42 cell string would be marginal.

Discharge would be a breeze. Nickel loves high discharge current. The described battery could discharge 20kW very easily for about 15 minutes and 100kW for about 2 minutes with only mild strain.

For the love of all that is holy... never try to use a Prius pack for off-grid storage unless you're just looking for a high effort/low reward project.

Exactly. I have no intentions of touching those packs. Ever.

 

[KauaiMolokai]

Pack voltage can easily bust 250V under charge. IF you could ALWAYS keep it loaded during charge, it would probably be fine. The Midnite Solar 250 has that standby mode if it busts 250V, it goes dormant until the voltage drops. That would work. Higher voltage ones would be great of course, and the 600V units are about the same price as the MN solar... so ... nice!

You could easily feed a 3-4kW (202V@20A) inverter at full power as long as you have gas. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is grossly less efficient than a 4kW generator, but hey... it's quiet, and it has its own air conditioner if you want to kick back in the genny...

You're right on the cats, but that's for both the upper AND lower.

Greetings All,

I have no wish to hijack this thread, so if I should start another one please just tell me

I'm looking for some help in accessing the charging/starting/electric system on my Prii. I have 4 - a 2014 Prius which is fine, a 2004 Prius which has engine check light issues, a 2006 which only runs on the ICE engine, and a 2008 which won't start. The latter 2 are in Hawaii so corrosion is a huge issue.

I'd like to get the 2006 to start. And all the Prius forums I've found so far are not as helpful with DIY as you folks are.

If anyone smarter and more experienced than me is willing to give me some pointers please let me know and I'll go into more detail.

Thanks in advance

Aloha

 

[Travis]

Pack voltage can easily bust 250V under charge. IF you could ALWAYS keep it loaded during charge, it would probably be fine. The Midnite Solar 250 has that standby mode if it busts 250V, it goes dormant until the voltage drops. That would work. Higher voltage ones would be great of course, and the 600V units are about the same price as the MN solar... so ... nice!

You could easily feed a 3-4kW (202V@20A) inverter at full power as long as you have gas. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is grossly less efficient than a 4kW generator, but hey... it's quiet, and it has its own air conditioner if you want to kick back in the genny...

You're right on the cats, but that's for both the upper AND lower.

Your limb broke. Yes I have successfully connected the high-voltage battery from my Prius to a midnight classic with usable success. With my average consumption of 500 watts continuous house off grid I'm able to go twice as long on a gallon of fuel compared to my Honda eu2000 generator. I got $0.50 a kilowatt-hour fuel cost which is the same cost as our local electric utility. Successfully ran for one year until I commissioned my 65kwh lithium iron phosphate valence XP battery bank and no longer (rarely) need backup generator power.

P.S. Doctor Prius has developed a lithium iron replacement for the nickel metal hydride in the Prius.