QO vs Homeline

[timselectric]

Here's the link, if you want it.

DC-Rated Thermal-Magnetic Molded Case Circuit Breakers | Schneider Electric

This data bulletin provides selection and application information for Square D thermal-magnetic molded case circuit breakers (MCCBs) when applied on...

www.se.com

 

[Cmiller]

I have seen Homeline breaker panels that were probably 20+ years old with no issues. We (company I work for) have installed them for nearly 15 years with only one ever failing that I can remember, and that was because there was a "leak" where water ran into the basement through a crack where the porch concrete sat on the block wall at the house. The water literally ran right through the panel, causing the neutral bar to become severely corroded.

We have installed outdoor panels many times with no issues ever.

On the flip side, I have seen QO breakers fail because of the "stab clamp" (for lack of a better term) on the breaker itself becoming loose. In turn, that burns out the stab on the panel busbar, rendering it useless. It seems like the HOM "clamps" stay tight longer, possibly partly due to how the breaker is built. E.g. QO clamp "sticks out", while HOM clamp is "sandwiched" between the sides of the breaker. Also, the HOM breaker seems to me to actually have almost more surface contact than the QO....

Personally I have seen more issues with QO than I have with HOM and I have not worked with tons of QO. We use QO whenever we are working with 3 phase and/or 480V, or if a customer has existing QO panels that we are adding to.

Most electricians will think I'm off my rocker if they read my comments here, and see me vouching for HOM, but hey, I'm just sharing what I have seen.

At the end of the day these panels are both made by Square D and I feel they are both quality built panels!

 

[littleharbor2]

QO are UL/CSA listed for up to 48vdc. And Square D certified to 125vdc.
QOU are UL/CSA listed for up to 60vdc and Square D certified to 125vdc.

Which is why the QOU only for 48 volt systems which often max out in the high 50's and even higher.

 

[timselectric]

Which is why the QOU only for 48 volt systems which often max out in the high 50's and even higher.

Yes, if You want UL listed for 60vdc.
Square D certified is good enough for me.
Manufacturers recommendations are good enough for my local inspectors.

 

[littleharbor2]

Yes, if You want UL listed for 60vdc.
Square D certified is good enough for me.
Manufacturers recommendations are good enough for my local inspectors.

And, hopefully, good enough for Insurance Inspectors.

 

[SparkyJJO]

And, hopefully, good enough for Insurance Inspectors.

I keep seeing this thing about insurance inspectors and insurance not paying if things aren't UL or whatever... But has there ever been a single case recorded of that happening? I mean, how many doo-dads from Amazon do people buy, plug in, and use, that are not UL listed (and they have no clue) is insurance going to go NOPE you bought non UL item xyz and that caused it so therefore no pay? I'm sure banks would LOVE that.

Or how about previous homeowner 5, 10, 30 years ago did something a little sketchy. It finally fails, and burns down the house now. And insurance doesn't pay now. Really think that would fly?

 

[timselectric]

And, hopefully, good enough for Insurance Inspectors.

I don't know why so many people worry about insurance paying.
If they can't prove it was intentional, it's an accident.
Insurance is for accidents.

 

[littleharbor2]

It just seems to me that Claims adjusters are looking for ANY reason to deny paying. They aren't there to help the claimant. they are to keep their stockholders happy.

 

[Partimewages]

Reasonable thoughts say most insurance is dictated by the lender.
They are not going to leave the lender out to dry.
Now if there's no lender interest then get yourself a good attorney!

 

[NC_hydro]

QO for me. Did a 100Amp sub panel in my shop. Breakers cost a bit more but I like how the plug on neutral works, keeps the panel nice and tidy. The Homeline breakers just felt cheap to me.

 

[Kuma]

Smart that the alu busbar is plated.

Are these sagging? Never needed an extra .5 hand to install cover.

I have seen Homeline breaker panels that were probably 20+ years old with no issues. We (company I work for) have installed them for nearly 15 years with only one ever failing that I can remember, and that was because there was a "leak" where water ran into the basement through a crack where the porch concrete sat on the block wall at the house. The water literally ran right through the panel, causing the neutral bar to become severely corroded.

We have installed outdoor panels many times with no issues ever.

On the flip side, I have seen QO breakers fail because of the "stab clamp" (for lack of a better term) on the breaker itself becoming loose. In turn, that burns out the stab on the panel busbar, rendering it useless. It seems like the HOM "clamps" stay tight longer, possibly partly due to how the breaker is built. E.g. QO clamp "sticks out", while HOM clamp is "sandwiched" between the sides of the breaker. Also, the HOM breaker seems to me to actually have almost more surface contact than the QO....

Personally I have seen more issues with QO than I have with HOM and I have not worked with tons of QO. We use QO whenever we are working with 3 phase and/or 480V, or if a customer has existing QO panels that we are adding to.

Most electricians will think I'm off my rocker if they read my comments here, and see me vouching for HOM, but hey, I'm just sharing what I have seen.

At the end of the day these panels are both made by Square D and I feel they are both quality built panels!

Do you need 2.5 hands to install the cover on the Homeline? Do the breakers sag? This is per another comment in this thread. The Homeline I installed never required more than my 2.0 hands. Now the old Zinsco panel required 2 hands, a foot, and a pry bar. hahaha

 

[42OhmsPA]

Thanks for all the good discussion.
I ordered the 125A QO panel from Zoro yesterday.
I'll post some comparison photos to my 200A Homelines when it arrives.

Again I've had no issues with the Homeline but if there is something better I want it, I know I'll be pushing the new system.

Now my next decision is the Schneider surge suppression or stick with Midnite, I'll likely stick with Midnite.

 

[NC_hydro]

Smart that the alu busbar is plated.

Are these sagging? Never needed an extra .5 hand to install cover.


Do you need 2.5 hands to install the cover on the Homeline? Do the breakers sag? This is per another comment in this thread. The Homeline I installed never required more than my 2.0 hands. Now the old Zinsco panel required 2 hands, a foot, and a pry bar. hahaha

I had no issues putting on the cover by myself. Breakers didn't sag which would have been obvious since I only have three in the panel currently.

 

[NC_hydro]

Thanks for all the good discussion.
I ordered the 125A QO panel from Zoro yesterday.
I'll post some comparison photos to my 200A Homelines when it arrives.

Again I've had no issues with the Homeline but if there is something better I want it, I know I'll be pushing the new system.

Now my next decision is the Schneider surge suppression or stick with Midnite, I'll likely stick with Midnite.

Got my panel from Zoro as well. Didn't pay attention and it didn't come with a cover but I got one from local electric supply house.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Smart that the alu busbar is plated.

Are these sagging? Never needed an extra .5 hand to install cover.


Do you need 2.5 hands to install the cover on the Homeline? Do the breakers sag? This is per another comment in this thread. The Homeline I installed never required more than my 2.0 hands. Now the old Zinsco panel required 2 hands, a foot, and a pry bar. hahaha

I've only ever used 2 hands for my Homeline covers but I can see where an extra would be handy. Opening the door, lining up the cover, closing the door and pressing it in place with 1 hand while starting the screws with the other can be a pita; especially when you let the cover slide and knock the breaker loose in the live panel your working on causing the lights to go out...

 

[hwy17]

All of my distribution panels will be the same. 240vac, 120v/240vac, 48vdc, and 12vdc.

48v in a QO panel is a very interesting idea.

Will you put class T's on each bank or trust the breakers?

 

[SparkyJJO]

I've only ever used 2 hands for my Homeline covers but I can see where an extra would be handy. Opening the door, lining up the cover, closing the door and pressing it in place with 1 hand while starting the screws with the other can be a pita; especially when you let the cover slide and knock the breaker loose in the live panel your working on causing the lights to go out...

Heh, I've had that struggle with just about any panel, regardless of brand, trying to get the darned thing lined up.

 

[timselectric]

48v in a QO panel is a very interesting idea.

Will you put class T's on each bank or trust the breakers?

It's a loads panel.
I wouldn't use it for a "combiner".

 

[Brett V]

Dude I'd replace that thing ASAP

Yeah, I should. The breakers still in use (except the main), have been replaced with Connecticut Electric Stab-Loks so I'm not too worried about it.

 

[mciholas]

One nice thing about QO breakers is that you can get them with various features and accessories. It has a lot of versatile features.

Available in GFCI, AFCI, and combination of both? They got that.

Want two circuits per slot? They got tandems (panel has to be compatible):



Want key operated? They got that:



Need to isolate neutral on trip or off? They got that:



Want a breaker lock out? Add the QO1PAF or QO2PAF:



Want motorized remote control of the breaker? Buy the PL versions:



Want shunt trip? They have that:



You can do a lot of creative things with QO breakers.

Mike C.