Quality of an inverter/charger vs. quality of plain inverter?

[Mex Rider]

Setting aside how likely or unlikely fire is, just based on the location alone (the fact you will be sleeping over your electrical area) I would want to do my best to use fire resistant materials + methods

Point taken!

 

[Dzl]

Point taken!

I'll likely be in the same boat as you, so its something I worry about too

 

[Mex Rider]

I'll likely be in the same boat as you, so its something I worry about too

The good news is we don't use high current while sleeping....still stuff happens, better safe than toasted

 

[theoldwizard1]

The insides of my Samlex EVO-4024

I've been using the EVO since 2016 and it has been an absolute CHAMP, handles my old genset (which I'm upgrading) that loved to wander up to 67hz.

Interesting that it is a LF design that uses a "typical" EI transformer core and not a toroidal transformer !

 

[Mex Rider]

Awesome! ? Let us know how everything goes. We'll be happy to (try to) help you program it, if any of the settings are ambigious.
Speaking of programming, how are you planning to do that? Did you get a hold of a Windows computer?

So I downloaded Victron Connect to my cell phone and started programming my inverter, Battery Protect, and BM-712 the other night, I am confused because when I change some settings they revert to the default. Here are a couple of questions about programing the Multi 3000: Under Charger what should I put for Repeated absorption Interval ?, Repeated absorption time?. Under AC Input Control what should I put for Connect when battery voltage drops below? LifePo4 battery. Last night I finally put my battery in the van in anticipation of leaving Wed. morning for San Diego for VA Hospital visit and picking up my Victron inverter and accessories. Today I was able to connect VictronConnect to the BM 712 with blue tooth...pretty cool. I now have two maxxair fans, and refrigeration working of the newly connected house system. A lot of it temporary before adding the inverter, solar panels, precharge switch but still happy it all came alive without a hitch. Thanks for all the input that helped get me here.

 

[Mex Rider]

Thanks for sharing this. Finally got a chance to watch it, good info.
For reference, here is the Victron slide from the video which shows the surge time for the various surge ratings:

View attachment 22247
"output voltage is less than normal" here means < 120Vac +- 2%.
"We have the inverters named after what they can handle in 30 minutes"?‍. Why?! Why not name them according to their max continous power rating? This is so confusing for the consumer.

Using our favorite Multiplus 3000 as an example:

• Continuous = 2400W (at 77F)
• 30% overload = 2400W * 130% = 3120W for 30 minutes (at 77F)
• Peak power = 6000W for 2 minutes (at 77F)

Circle back- Update:
Yesterday I used my DeWalt 15 amp chopsaw powered by my finally completely installed Victron Multiplus 3000....it didn't bat an eye, I am thrilled with the performance. Next test, my table saw!

 

[HaldorEE]

Circle back- Update:
Yesterday I used my DeWalt 15 amp chopsaw powered by my finally completely installed Victron Multiplus 3000....it didn't bat an eye, I am thrilled with the performance. Next test, my table saw!

That is very cool.

I hope our border reopens soon. I would love to see your van. I am in Sierra Vista every so often (East of Nogalas). That is where I am planning on basing my retirement.

Once things get back to normal, I hope to see more of your country.

 

[Mex Rider]

That is very cool.

I hope our border reopens soon. I would love to see your van. I am in Sierra Vista every so often (East of Nogalas). That is where I am planning on basing my retirement.

Once things get back to normal, I hope to see more of your country.

Well, of course you are very welcome, and I would like to see your van as well. For a real amatuer, I think I have done a reasonable quality job on the electrical, the rest does not come anywhere close to the professional finishes I see others creating. The border here at Lukeville Arizona is for all intents and purposes open. I cross back and forth fairly frequently to access my US mailbox.

 

[HaldorEE]

Well, of course you are very welcome, and I would like to see your van as well. For a real amatuer, I think I have done a reasonable quality job on the electrical, the rest does not come anywhere close to the professional finishes I see others creating. The border here at Lukeville Arizona is for all intents and purposes open. I cross back and forth fairly frequently to access my US mailbox.

I didn't realize the border had reopened. That is good. I was worried about some people I know in Algodonos. Their business is dependent on travelers from the USA.

 

[Mex Rider]

I didn't realize the border had reopened. That is good. I was worried about some people I know in Algodonos. Their business is dependent on travelers from the USA.

Its not officially open but they are not stopping tourists from entering here...

 

[HaldorEE]

You make good points regarding VA, but for me at least it misses the point. The frustration is not with Victron using VA or the numbers being too 'complicated', its the opposite, Victron often doesn't "tell you enough of the truth to be able to intelligently apply their products" at least not in their documentation.

They leave out a crucial specification, time, I know you know about the 2 minute, and 30 minute ratings, but this is because I know you did considerable research, and learned it the same place I did and the only place it is explicitly stated, an obscure 30 minute Webinar meant for Victron staff and affiliates. Neither the datasheet nor the manual reference duration for peak power, and make no mention whatsoever of the 130% / 30 minute rating.

This is just one example of many shortcomings in their documentation, not due to complexity but due to not being detailed enough. I really like Victron as a company and I really like many of their products, but I do not like the quality of their documentation when compared to other top tier companies like Samlex or Magnum.



I appreciate this explanation, as stated above I"m still trying to wrap my head around VA vs Watts, Its starting to come together.

You are correct. Since I did know this information, I hadn't considered that it is not necessarily promoted properly.

 

[HaldorEE]

The datasheet says VA rating at a given temperature, continuous. That means 24 x 7. I have yet to see where Victron counters this with a 'oh, this continuous rating is in fact only 30 minutes'.

AFAIK it's illegal in the USA to state incorrect information on a product datasheet, so if this is what Victron is doing, and given the nature of the USA, why hasn't someone taken Victron to task about it and had the datasheet struck down in the USA and Victron fined or what ever?

To amplify, the time thing is related to surge rating. As in 200% of rated capacity for X minutes. 120% for XX minutes. Continuous means continuous.

There is a qualifier about continuous related to ambient temperature. The limiting factor for continuous power rating is heat dissipation. Heat sinks and fans don't work as well when the air around a device is hotter.

I recently designed a wireless base station that has to operate inside a control electronics enclosure that is used in the middle east, in direct sun. Operating temperature spec is -40 to 80 degrees C. 80 degrees C is 176 degrees F! That was not easy.

Hardest thing to find was a galvanically isolated DC-DC converter module with high temperature specs. Most top out at 70 degree C. I found one made by Traco with a 93 degree C spec. The reason why this matters is when a manufacturer specs the temperature range, the top temp is where the derated current you can draw = 0.

So having an 80 degrees C rating doesn't really help when it means I can't actually draw any power out of the darn thing at 80. This was literally the only part I could use.

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[Mex Rider]

To amplify, the time thing is related to surge rating. As in 200% of rated capacity for X minutes. 120% for XX minutes. Continuous means continuous.

There is a qualifier about continuous related to ambient temperature. The limiting factor for continuous power rating is heat dissipation. Heat sinks and fans don't work as well when the air around a device is hotter.

I recently designed a wireless base station that has to operate inside a control electronics enclosure that is used in the middle east, in direct sun. Operating temperature spec is -40 to 80 degrees C. 80 degrees C is 176 degrees F! That was not easy.

Hardest thing to find was a galvanically isolated DC-DC converter module with high temperature specs. Most top out at 70 degree C. I found one made by Traco with a 93 degree C spec. The reason why this matters is when a manufacturer specs the temperature range, the top temp is where the derated current you can draw = 0.

So having an 80 degrees C rating doesn't really help when it means I can't actually draw any power out of the darn thing at 80. This was literally the only part I could use.

TEC 2-2413WI - TRACO Power - TRC Electronics

Order TRACO Power TEC 2-2413WI DC/DC converter on-line or call today for exceptional customer service and factory trained expert TRACO Power TEC 2-2413WI knowledge. TRC is the USA stocking headquarters of TRACO Power TEC 2-2413WI DC/DC converters.

www.trcelectronics.com

Really interesting even for a layman, albeit a layman living in the desert?