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Questions on inverter.

OtokoShiro

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Im looking at Giandel 4000W 12v inverter And have some questions.

1. Can I rune a 600w window AC unit on this?
2. How meny batterys do I need?

any other advice is really helpful. This is not a project that will be done in the near future as I am still learning and researching to have a off-grid solar shed.
 
Im looking at Giandel 4000W 12v inverter And have some questions.

1. Can I rune a 600w window AC unit on this?
2. How meny batterys do I need?

any other advice is really helpful. This is not a project that will be done in the near future as I am still learning and researching to have a off-grid solar shed.
I am currently running a 4000/8000 watt Giandel inverter but in 24 volts. What is the actual amp draw on that window unit? 5 amps +? What is the start up amps? How long do you want to run your AC? Hours in a day? That 12 volt inverter is going to be your limiting factor. If that unit, after start up, ran 24/7 , you would need 14,400 watts of battery storage in LP04. You would have to have 100 percent charge and then be able to drain them to zero daily to power 24/7. Then you would need enough solar panel charging to recharge that battery bank back to 100 percent to accomplish this every day. And by the way, 14,400 watts is 12 / 100AH batteries.
 
Sorry the AC I was looking at was discontinued. Here is an A/C unit PDF on a similar unit which I added to my amazon wish list.

Thank you for the information. My overall plan at this point in time is to run appliances that won't be a high demand on the system.

Like appliances under 120v. I am not sure about the water heater. I am researching smaller units without the tank.
 
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Yes that unit is about 564 watts without the inrush of startup.
When you are thinking higher wattage users like AC's, start thinking about a 24 or 48 volt system. Scratch the thought of a regular electric water heater unless you are building a massive system.
 
I very much agree with the 24/48V recommendation. Everything works better at the higher voltages.

A good rule of thumb that has always worked for me is to use at least 2X the solar for whatever appliance you are interested in running. So, for an air-con using at least 564W, I'd say have system with 2X that, or at least ~1100W of panels. It's not carved in stone, but what I've found myself that actually works. At only 12V, your system would have to be able to handle 1100W/12V = 92A, whereas at 24V it's just 1100W/24V=46A. Wiring is easier at higher voltage/lower amperage.

In terms of battery size, another rule of thumb is to not drain your battery at a rate higher than it's max charging rate. Let's say you have a battery that's maximal charging rate is 1/10C, and C is 250Ah. That means it's OK to discharge up to 25A without the battery complaining. So, at 12V that works out to be 300W, 600W at 24V, and 1200W at 48V. Again, higher system voltage works better for you.

Going in the opposite direction, to feed an air-con needing 564W, then at 12V you need a battery that will tolerate 564/12V= 47A, or 23.5A at 24V and ~12A at 48V. Keep in mind that different battery chemistries have different max charge/discharge rates. Using these guidelines can help you better design a system that is not going to disappoint you.
 
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Im looking at Giandel 4000W 12v inverter And have some questions.

1. Can I rune a 600w window AC unit on this?
2. How meny batterys do I need?

any other advice is really helpful. This is not a project that will be done in the near future as I am still learning and researching to have a off-grid solar shed.
How not to make your way through life. Do not try this at home.

Bear in mind I'm in a mid latitude desert and the suns shines 95% of the time during daylight hours.

I know my system is insufficient for what I'm using it for. You go to war with the army you have.

1200 watts of renogy eclipse 100w 12V panels. 400 watts of brand X 200w 12V panels - 3 different models of 40amp mppt controllers (Commander, Rover, Elite)
680 ah renogy lipofe4 12 V batries
12/3000/120-50 120V victron multi

Because my RV is crippled due to the mandatory use of a 30a (3400w) power pole instead of a 50a (12000w) connection.

Using the hybrid portion (iszat right?) of the Multipass I run (all day, every hot day) the front "house" of a 40' class A RV which includes a portable 8000 btu (10 amps) DiLonghi aircon, chest freezer (40w), RCA 7cuft fridge/freezer (60w) and the rest of the kitchen/living area. Average draw is 1100 watts at 12V when the AC is on. Avg draw when AC cycles off, 380w.

So 8 grand+ (6 grand just for batries) spent over 5 years to be able to run an AC but only when the sun shines brightly
 
I discourage the use of any inverter over 2000W on a 12 volt system.
I agree.

I say don’t use 12 volts with an inverter greater than 2000 watts, and if you do it’s to cover surge like a motor startup. It’s OK to warm food up a couple minutes at a time, 6 times a day, but not cook food.

In my signature block there’s more than n the why.
 
Im looking at Giandel 4000W 12v inverter And have some questions.

1. Can I rune a 600w window AC unit on this?
2. How meny batterys do I need?

any other advice is really helpful. This is not a project that will be done in the near future as I am still learning and researching to have a off-grid solar shed.

As others have said a 4000 watt inverter is not appropriate for a 12 volt system. Also the cost for wire & fuses etc. will be significantly more with a 12 volt system than at 24 volts.

If you like Giandel here is a link for a 4000 watt 24 VDC.


If you are locked into 12 volts some use the Victron Energy Multiplus 12 Volt 3000 Watts or Multiplus II 12 Volt 3000 Watts successfully.
 
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As others have said a 4000 watt inverter is not appropriate for a 12 volt system. Also the cost for wire & fuses etc. will be significantly more with a 12 volt system than at 24 volts.

If you like Giandel here is a link for a 4000 watt 24 VDC.


If you are locked into 12 volts some use the Victron Energy Multiplus 12 Volt 3000 Watts or Multiplus II 12 Volt 3000 Watts successfully.
Yep, that is the one I have, it is a beast and only draws 7 watts at idle with no load.
 
I'm not stuck on Giandel but I do look for stuff that is reliable and wanted some type of warranty. I have saved the Giandel 24v 4000w inverter in my bookmarks. I have also been looking at the SOK 24V battery. Also looked into Victron 250V / 70A and rich solar with their solar panels.

One thing that is on my mind is would I be needing a bigger inverter or a 2nd inverter for this system later on.
 
I'm not stuck on Giandel but I do look for stuff that is reliable and wanted some type of warranty. I have saved the Giandel 24v 4000w inverter in my bookmarks. I have also been looking at the SOK 24V battery. Also looked into Victron 250V / 70A and rich solar with their solar panels.

One thing that is on my mind is would I be needing a bigger inverter or a 2nd inverter for this system later on.
Oh, I did not have anything negative to say about it. It works great and takes a beating. Good unit with low amp draw at idle.
 
Oh, I did not have anything negative to say about it. It works great and takes a beating. Good unit with low amp draw at idle.
Sorry, you did nothing wrong. I should have written that better. no worries.
 
Strangely enough the tankless water heaters are much worse for solar, as they have to. heat the water instantly, demanding insanely high current demands for the periods they run, far more than most inverters can handle. 10-15KW is not unusual. I recently installed a 2.5 gallon electric water heater under my sink, it runs on 15 amps of 110v as it heats the water gradually in a very energy-efficient tank.
 
Strangely enough the tankless water heaters are much worse for solar, as they have to. heat the water instantly, demanding insanely high current demands for the periods they run, far more than most inverters can handle. 10-15KW is not unusual. I recently installed a 2.5 gallon electric water heater under my sink, it runs on 15 amps of 110v as it heats the water gradually in a very energy-efficient tank.
Model number of tankless heater?
 
I'm not stuck on Giandel but I do look for stuff that is reliable and wanted some type of warranty. I have saved the Giandel 24v 4000w inverter in my bookmarks. I have also been looking at the SOK 24V battery. Also looked into Victron 250V / 70A and rich solar with their solar panels.

One thing that is on my mind is would I be needing a bigger inverter or a 2nd inverter for this system later on.

If you are thinking of going bigger, you may want to look at inverter/chargers that are stackable. Magnum Energy, Schneider Electric and Victron Energy are a few tier 1 manufactures that have stackable inverter/chargers and there are others. Inverter/chargers allow the battery to be charged from the grid or generator. They cost more, but depending on the system can be worth it.

The nice feature of inverter/charges at tier 1 manufactures is programmability. Inverter/chargers can be programmed to switch to the grid when the battery gets low and charge the battery among other features.

Another item to consider is a Low Frequency (LF) type inverter that can typically handle a surge load for 30 seconds or more. High Frequency (HF) inverters typically handle a surge for milliseconds. The LF inverter can usually handle starting surges, such as you air conditioner, better than a HF inverter. LF inverters usually weigh significantly more than HF Inverter because of the large transformer.

The SOK 24V battery has good reviews. I once considered their batteries for my system, but opted to build from cells.

The Victron Energy 250V / 70A is a good quality solar charge controller.

Rich Solar makes good solar panels. I have 3 of their panels and they work well. I did need to touch up the caulking on the back of the panels. Also, one arrived with broken glass and had to be returned, but this is common with solar panel shipments. I would buy Rich Solar panels again.

Check the return policy when having solar panels shipped.

For my next purchase of solar panels, I am going to look for sales at Home Depot, Lowes and local outlets and hopefully good panels can be found there. That way the solar panels can be ordered into the store and I can inspect the panels before accepting them. I have had 3 solar panel shipments and all shipments had some damage. It can be difficult to return damaged panels, because larger panels are delivered by shipping companies and I found some difficult to deal with for returns.

If your system is a 24 volt system it is recommended to buy 24 volt panels. 12 volt panels can be used in a 24 volt system, but the panels need to be series connected to get the voltage above 24 volt. My solar system does have three Rich Solar 12 volt panels, but they are connect in series to get the voltage to about 50 volts. The other panels are 24 Volt so a single panel can be configure parallel if needed.
 
For later on I am looking at this Aims Power 24V 6000W inverter. But i will be getting the Giandel 24V inverter to start with. I also looking at victron inverters for later. Was thinking on Rich solar 24V 335W panels but They want you to buy a pallet.
 
I very much agree with the 24/48V recommendation. Everything works better at the higher voltages.

A good rule of thumb that has always worked for me is to use at least 2X the solar for whatever appliance you are interested in running. So, for an air-con using at least 564W, I'd say have system with 2X that, or at least ~1100W of panels. It's not carved in stone, but what I've found myself that actually works. At only 12V, your system would have to be able to handle 1100W/12V = 92A, whereas at 24V it's just 1100W/24V=46A. Wiring is easier at higher voltage/lower amperage.

In terms of battery size, another rule of thumb is to not drain your battery at a rate higher than it's max charging rate. Let's say you have a battery that's maximal charging rate is 1/10C, and C is 250Ah. That means it's OK to discharge up to 25A without the battery complaining. So, at 12V that works out to be 300W, 600W at 24V, and 1200W at 48V. Again, higher system voltage works better for you.

Going in the opposite direction, to feed an air-con needing 564W, then at 12V you need a battery that will tolerate 564/12V= 47A, or 23.5A at 24V and ~12A at 48V. Keep in mind that different battery chemistries have different max charge/discharge rates. Using these guidelines can help you better design a system that is not going to disappoint you.
These are batteries I am looking at.

1. SOK 24V 100Ah Battery
2.Ampertime 24V 200Ah Battery

As for solar panels I am looking at.
1.Rich Solar 24V 200 Watt
2.Rich Solar 24V 335 watt

I am looking for advice on these things.
 
I would get the larger of the two batteries. Plan on more capacity then you think you need. People think that it is OK to drain Li batteries completely, but it dramatically shortens their lifespan. Plan on never depleting past 80%. A 100% drain can result in shortening battery life to a third of just an 80% drain.

I would divide the watts by the price and pick the panel with the most W/$.
 
Im looking at Giandel 4000W 12v inverter And have some questions.

1. Can I rune a 600w window AC unit on this?
2. How meny batterys do I need?

any other advice is really helpful. This is not a project that will be done in the near future as I am still learning and researching to have a off-grid solar shed.

If at all possible, you should consider going to 24v or 48v with a 4000 watt inverter.
That's 350 amps. You will need more than one battery.
 
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