Removing frames from panels

[Unclebob]

I've installed 3 X 200w renogy panels on my van (on top of roof racks. They're all bolted together with angle section aluminium so I can lift them off with some pulleys in my garage when I want to use my roof racks for their intended purpose. It works, but it's noisy at highway speeds (the interplay between the aero bars and the frames can atrocious noise at times) and I'm trying to keep height to a minimum so I can still get into local carparks etc.

My probably stupid question: has anybody tried removing the frames and using something like foam core fibreglass ribs to provide stiffness to the panels instead? I imagine it'd be similar weight to aluminium but far stiffer, and could potentially run across all 3 panels, effectively making them one large panel. It could also be far more aerodynamic, as the sides facing the wind could have most of the face removed, leaving a sort of air intake. This would also assist with venting heat when stationary

Possible issues:
- removing the existing frames without damaging the glass/cells
- finding a suitable method to bond the foam/epoxy to the panels
- preventing deterioration/failure due to UV exposure

Any thoughts? Suggestions on how to get the frames off without damaging the glass/cells? Slaps around the head for my stupid ideas?

 

[Culchee]

I've installed 3 X 200w renogy panels on my van (on top of roof racks. They're all bolted together with angle section aluminium so I can lift them off with some pulleys in my garage when I want to use my roof racks for their intended purpose. It works, but it's noisy at highway speeds (the interplay between the aero bars and the frames can atrocious noise at times) and I'm trying to keep height to a minimum so I can still get into local carparks etc.

My probably stupid question: has anybody tried removing the frames and using something like foam core fibreglass ribs to provide stiffness to the panels instead? I imagine it'd be similar weight to aluminium but far stiffer, and could potentially run across all 3 panels, effectively making them one large panel. It could also be far more aerodynamic, as the sides facing the wind could have most of the face removed, leaving a sort of air intake. This would also assist with venting heat when stationary

Possible issues:
- removing the existing frames without damaging the glass/cells
- finding a suitable method to bond the foam/epoxy to the panels
- preventing deterioration/failure due to UV exposure

Any thoughts? Suggestions on how to get the frames off without damaging the glass/cells? Slaps around the head for my stupid ideas?

I’d imagine it would be difficult to separate the frames off the panel... isn’t it all siliconed into place for a reason...keep water and moist out to prevent short circuits.... etc... sell them and get some flexible ones that you can stick on maybe... just an idea...

 

[Unclebob]

I’d imagine it would be difficult to separate the frames off the panel... isn’t it all siliconed into place for a reason...keep water and moist out to prevent short circuits.... etc... sell them and get some flexible ones that you can stick on maybe... just an idea...

Unfortunately there are no good flexible ones If I glassed around the edges to attach the replacement frame I don't think there'd be any issues with water ingress (I would have to make sure no epoxy got in though...).

I could potentially avoid most of the issues by using my table saw to cut the bottom of the frames off, leaving just a few mm of frame which would help bond to my replacement frame without damaging the factory seal. Isn't the glass usually laminated to the cells anyway?

 

[Rednecktek]

Yes, the cells are usually glued to the glass so good luck getting them apart without damaging the silicone.

Check out RVing with Tito on youtube, he's figured out how to make panels on the roof as best as anyone can from what I've seen.

 

[Unclebob]

Yes, the cells are usually glued to the glass so good luck getting them apart without damaging the silicone.

Check out RVing with Tito on youtube, he's figured out how to make panels on the roof as best as anyone can from what I've seen.

I'm not trying to separate the glass from the cells, just the frames from the rest of the assembly. Damaged silicone around the edge is no great problem since I can always add more silicone

Thanks, that RVing with Tito video was interesting. Still using semi flexible panels though, I need something that will sit above my roof racks (to avoid shading) and be strong enough to deal with a "light breeze" as I cruise down the freeway.

Here's my current setup, somewhat unfinished due to the noise issues. You can see that I've already got the frames sitting around my roof racks to minimise height, but I'm still keeping the back face of the panels about 10mm above the racks since there's a fair bit of flex in the mounting.

I've got gas struts to tilt it forward or backward, but I haven't finished that bit yet (it's held down by bolts through right angle brackets at this stage)

 

[Rednecktek]

Have you thought about grabbing a roll of vinyl trim and making a slanted barrier along the front edge to keep air from blowing under while driving?

Just an out-of-the-box idea.

 

[Rednecktek]

No reason I can think of that you couldn't just lop the outer rim off, just leave enough to hold the things together and keep air & water from getting in between the layers.

 

[Isaac-1]

I too think an air dam at the front to raise the airflow over the panels is a better solution, remember air flow under the panels will tend to cause lift, which might pull the panels free of their mounting or break the glass.

 

[gotbeans]

Yea you might find it impossible to take apart all that glue on them. If you take off the frame it can lay pretty flat already though and just leave the glass on.

Or you can buy the individual cells too and put together your own panel with them. Lots of places sell the individual cells (all over ebay and other sites)
like this

 

[OffGridForGood]

I wonder if you could carefully cut the aluminum along the outside edge. Leaving the alum where it is glued, and removing only the portion below the bottom of the panel. Could be dicy and tedious to cut all the way around the perimeter, but should work.

 

[Unclebob]

Thanks all for your input, I think I'll give the air dam a go in the short term and see how that goes. I think I'll still chop the frames a few mm below the glass, because I'm still not real happy with how the whole thing operates. Gently clamping the panels between some foam covered ply should support them nicely for the operating table (saw), then it's just a matter of glassing up and attaching the new frame!

 

[Culchee]

Unfortunately there are no good flexible ones If I glassed around the edges to attach the replacement frame I don't think there'd be any issues with water ingress (I would have to make sure no epoxy got in though...).

I could potentially avoid most of the issues by using my table saw to cut the bottom of the frames off, leaving just a few mm of frame which would help bond to my replacement frame without damaging the factory seal. Isn't the glass usually laminated to the cells anyway?

Table saw idea is good one...

 

[profesor79]

I cuted my dead panels with a flex, and was able to keep at the edge of the aluminum proflie. As my glass was already broken - I did not see if the cutting process created new cracs, but it was going easy. The glass is glued around and inside the profile, not easy to pull it out from it. The glass is hardened, so one crack will go over the panel quickly - be careful.

 

[Unclebob]

I cuted my dead panels with a flex, and was able to keep at the edge of the aluminum proflie. As my glass was already broken - I did not see if the cutting process created new cracs, but it was going easy. The glass is glued around and inside the profile, not easy to pull it out from it. The glass is hardened, so one crack will go over the panel quickly - be careful.

That's a slightly different profile to mine - there's a greater lip at the bottom and less space between the two doubled up vertical sections. Not sure about the top but probably pretty similar.

Interesting, I assumed they were a standard profile!

 

[mnvista]

My panels on my truck topper that extend over the cab area made wind noise until I added a deflector. Just a piece of rubber tailgate seal I had lying around did the job. Enough to breakup the wind flow.

 

[Checkthisout]

Just bend up a shield out of some flashing or whatever to stop the wind from striking the leading edge of the panels.

 

[0truck0]

I would do air dam. Is not the panels making the noise so much as the roof rack will make noise all on its own. In the 1990s when roof racks for sports gear was so popular it was quick that they added the air dam due to the noise.
Don't shadow the panels with the top of the air dam, but do add air dam to at least bridge the van roof to the top of the panel.
IDT it is the aluminum frame that is the issue. If I was going to cut it down I would cut the aluminum excess off and leave the aluminum to glass bond intact. An orbital tool with metal cutting blade might cause the least amount of stress to the panel.

 

[rustythorn]

renogy's "flexible" panels have the same warranty as their rigid panels so on paper they should be the same? although i am using a lot of renogy's flexible panels in my build, i am not trustful enough to use these panels in a permanent mounting and exposure arrangement.

 

[0truck0]

renogy's "flexible" panels have the same warranty as their rigid panels so on paper they should be the same? although i am using a lot of renogy's flexible panels in my build, i am not trustful enough to use these panels in a permanent mounting and exposure arrangement.

the eck does, use rainbow even mean?

 

[Unclebob]

renogy's "flexible" panels have the same warranty as their rigid panels so on paper they should be the same? although i am using a lot of renogy's flexible panels in my build, i am not trustful enough to use these panels in a permanent mounting and exposure arrangement.

None of them last. The rigid panels have might have the same warranty, but you can reasonably expect them to last for years. Not so with the flexible ones. You can expect them to last just past the warranty period then die :D