Renogy DCC30S/DCC50S 12V 30A/50A DUAL INPUT DC-DC ON-BOARD BATTERY CHARGER WITH MPPT
- Thread starter Arbee
- Start date
So in the long run, when I have solar, you're saying run the charger through the PV terminal along with the solar. The voltage from the charger will be 14 for the sake of argument. I don't know what the panels might put out. So 2 different voltages (within the nominal 12V range) going into the PV terminal isn't a problem?
@mkaye : are you saying that with energy being detected by the DCC30/50S on both its alternator and PV terminals, and that alternator current meeting or exceeding the requirements of the top of page 16 of the manual, that the DCC30/50S won't trickle charge the starter battery from energy supplied on the PV terminals of the DCC30/50S?
I mean it makes sense and all--the alternator of the running engine typically being far more powerful than any solar input, and that alternator capable of charging the starter and, as per the manual, the house battery if the PV can't alone charge the house battery (bottom of page 16 of the manual).
I just never recall reading (I may have missed it) that the alternator on (and detected as such by the DCC30/50s) means zero starter battery charge from the DCC30/50S PV input.
Thanks.
Correct about the logic of how that 30amps is split among PV and alternator inputs. When one of those two lacks energization, the other is cleared to allow up to 30 amps. When both have energization each is limited to 15 amps.
"It's starting to make sense to use the PV terminal for the charger so that the starter battery will be trickled when I'm parked with shore power."
Right--unless you are taping your starter battery while the vehicle is at rest, and something more than trickle charging it is indicated--not that I recommend this approach.
I presume you to have a lead acid battery under the hood. At what voltage does its manufacturer consider it fully charged---as much as voltage readings are limited in their ability to conclude a battery's true state of charge (SOC) as they're effected by temperature, and load on the battery, etc., and while those who really want to know SOC purchase shunts to get such readings.
@stinky : "when you say no intention of Connecting the Gopower to the starter battery" I am interpreting this to mean no intention to directly and physically hook the Gopower up to the starter battery's physical terminals....but, you are fine and dandy that the Gopower may trickle charge the starter battery indirectly, vis a vis the DCC30S' algorithm for doing so once the house battery is fully charged.
Okay, so at some point I'm back to plan A. The charger goes to the ALT+ terminal once I have panels. But that would be 2 inputs to that terminal and effectively connects the charger directly to the starter battery as well. w/o the Renogy in between that would mean the charger supplying 55A to the starter battery. I'm not sure that is a good idea either. So I circle back to what I was thinking originally. 3 power sources. PV on the one terminal by itself. Alternator and charger on the ALT+ terminal and a switch to disconnect the starter battery/alternator when I'm on shore power. I can see that under that scheme the PV won't be tickling (sic) the starter battery but life's a bitch. It may be a bit of a makeshift solution but 'either or' switching would solve any potential problem. No?
right, one energization appliance type at one time on the PV inputs. If you wish to run both, again, as you state @mkaye , you put the solar on the DCC30S's PV terminals so its MPPT controller can regulate and optimize the power coming off the solar panel, and your Gopower charger would get hooked to the house battery's terminals.
Do keep in mind @stinky that under this configuration though that you'll be trickle charging your starter battery if the DCC30S detects the house battery at full charge (thanks to solar and your Gopower) and that trickle charging energy will come only from the solar panel, as it is what's on the PV terminals of the DCC30S.
Slightly differently @stinky. The Gopower in this configuration plays no direct role in tricking charging the starter battery. It only speeds up the likelihood for the solar panel do so (when the weather is nice) by getting the house battery to full charge faster.
Subtle difference.
I don't know much about my chassis battery. Typical lead acid of an uncertain age and condition. And yes, I like the idea of the PV trickling it whether it's actual PV input or the charger on that terminal.Correct about the logic of how that 30amps is split among PV and alternator inputs. When one of those two lacks energization, the other is cleared to allow up to 30 amps. When both have energization each is limited to 15 amps.
"It's starting to make sense to use the PV terminal for the charger so that the starter battery will be trickled when I'm parked with shore power."
Right--unless you are taping your starter battery while the vehicle is at rest, and something more than trickle charging it is indicated--not that I recommend this approach.
I presume you to have a lead acid battery under the hood. At what voltage does its manufacturer consider it fully charged---as much as voltage readings are limited in their ability to conclude a battery's true state of charge (SOC) as they're effected by temperature, and load on the battery, etc., and while those who really want to know SOC purchase shunts to get such readings.
@stinky : "when you say no intention of Connecting the Gopower to the starter battery" I am interpreting this to mean no intention to directly and physically hook the Gopower up to the starter battery's physical terminals....but, you are fine and dandy that the Gopower may trickle charge the starter battery indirectly, vis a vis the DCC30S' algorithm for doing so once the house battery is fully charged.
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""you put the solar on the DCC30S's PV terminals so its MPPT controller can regulate and optimize the power coming off the solar panel, and your Gopower charger would get hooked to the house battery's terminals."" I expect you mean to connect to the house battery through the DCC30. The Gopower does not have a lithium profile.
@stinky, writing this as I'm thinking, I'm inclined to compare and contrast the pros and cons of--once you have a solar panel, hooking your shore charger up to either the house battery directly, or the starter battery inputs of the DCC30S directly.
Will you also have the starter battery wired into the starter battery inputs of the DCC30S as well?
I would think you'd want to, for if you don't, never will your starter battery be charged by anything other than the alternator when the engine is on.
As discussed prior, hooking your shore power directly to the house battery means that shore power will never trickle charge your starter battery. It will only get the house battery to a state of full charge faster such that on sunny days your solar panel can trickle charge the starter battery--the DCC30S seeing that such solar panel is not needed for house battery charging, as the house battery will be full.
Now, take that shore charger and move it to the alternator inputs of the DCC30S. Hmm. Provided the criterion on the top of page 16 are met, I'd guess that your shore charger would charge both batteries if those batteries need the power, or one battery if the other is fully charged, or no batteries if both fully charged.
Turn the engine on with that shore power energized and hooked up to the alternator inputs of the DCC30S, and provided no thresholds on the DCC30S are exceeded, I imagine both the shore power and alternator serve to do that described in the following paragraph consistent with the top of page 16 of the manual. Then again, if the DCC30S turns into a red ball of hot lava...I kid, but some of this stuff is beyond the depth of my knowledge.
And disconnect the shore charger with the engine on, and I imagine, again, the top of page 16's rules are followed. I guess with the shore power connected to the alternator inputs and energized, your starter battery will get charged even on a cloudy day.
Renogy will never do more than quote that already in their manual. I would encourage you though to seek additional guidance as to the pros and cons of your plans as I speak in theory and am hardly the last word on this stuff.
Oh, the shore charge has no Lithium setting AND your house battery is.
Yeah, direct connect between house battery terminals and your shore charger's a no-no. That would lend credence to your idea of putting the shore charger on the alternator input of the DCC30S, but then....you mentioned the shore charge has a constant state setting......but where would the shore charge get it's intelligence on battery state of charge from hooked up there...the starter battery or the DCC30S.
I'm getting trepidation about proceeding here with shore power on the alternator input of the DCC30S. I'm better liking the shore charger on a constant setting, on the DCC30S PV inputs, first toggle switched with a solar panel so only at most one of the two energy sources (your shore power or your solar) can provide energy on the PV input of the DCC30S at any one time.
Yeah, direct connect between house battery terminals and your shore charger's a no-no. That would lend credence to your idea of putting the shore charger on the alternator input of the DCC30S, but then....you mentioned the shore charge has a constant state setting......but where would the shore charge get it's intelligence on battery state of charge from hooked up there...the starter battery or the DCC30S.
I'm getting trepidation about proceeding here with shore power on the alternator input of the DCC30S. I'm better liking the shore charger on a constant setting, on the DCC30S PV inputs, first toggle switched with a solar panel so only at most one of the two energy sources (your shore power or your solar) can provide energy on the PV input of the DCC30S at any one time.
-It's really not an option to supply any charging current to either battery except through the DCC30. (except of course the usual direct alternator-starter battery relationship) The Gopower converter doesn't under any setting mode have a lithium profile. And at this point I'm thinking to use in brute force dumb 14V constant fixed voltage output. So 55A of that to either battery, regardless of chemistry probably isn't a good idea. Right?
-I maybe using the language a little loosely but to me the alternator and starter battery are one and the same. So connecting the converter to the ALT+ input terminal of the DCC30 would be again supplying a constant 55A/14V to the starter battery. Am I missing something? The vehicle has no isolator besides the DCC30.
-I had been thinking to use the ALT+ input of the DCC30 for the charger but I can see the trickle charge advantage of using the PV+ input. It looks to me like whichever terminal I choose I will be wise not to allow 2 current sources to feed either input terminal of the DCC30 simultaneously. So once again back to plan A = some manual disconnect. Let's suppose I use the PV input. Then I need to disconnect the charger when the panels are supplying power and disconnect the panels when the charger is supplying. I imagine there would be several ways to accomplish this but simply put I would think a DC 100A SPDT switch would be simple and safe.
-God I love this. It's so exciting to be in over my head and looking for a way out.
-I maybe using the language a little loosely but to me the alternator and starter battery are one and the same. So connecting the converter to the ALT+ input terminal of the DCC30 would be again supplying a constant 55A/14V to the starter battery. Am I missing something? The vehicle has no isolator besides the DCC30.
-I had been thinking to use the ALT+ input of the DCC30 for the charger but I can see the trickle charge advantage of using the PV+ input. It looks to me like whichever terminal I choose I will be wise not to allow 2 current sources to feed either input terminal of the DCC30 simultaneously. So once again back to plan A = some manual disconnect. Let's suppose I use the PV input. Then I need to disconnect the charger when the panels are supplying power and disconnect the panels when the charger is supplying. I imagine there would be several ways to accomplish this but simply put I would think a DC 100A SPDT switch would be simple and safe.
-God I love this. It's so exciting to be in over my head and looking for a way out.
- Okay, I've never dealt with relay switches before. Looking around for something to provide 'either or' switching for the range of amps I need I found this: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01IX7NTNQ?ref_=pe_1139640_122623040_dpLink Anyone? Will this work?
- In earlier postings I mentioned that I've been told an alternator will supply more or less1/2 its amps to house batteries. Someone commented that that was not his understanding. In any case I suppose it all depends on the draw. Since the DCC30 won't draw more than 30A and I will have a 40A fuse on that line I would think this would work. Yes?
- In earlier postings I mentioned that I've been told an alternator will supply more or less1/2 its amps to house batteries. Someone commented that that was not his understanding. In any case I suppose it all depends on the draw. Since the DCC30 won't draw more than 30A and I will have a 40A fuse on that line I would think this would work. Yes?
"So 55A of that to either battery, regardless of chemistry probably isn't a good idea. Right?"
Hooking the 55A Gopower converter up to the DCC30S, I would think, would limit the amperage the Gopower device will provide to the DCC30S, to the maximum 30 amp limit of the DCC30S. @stinky: think of amps (of your Gopower) as the maximum current that is capable of being delivered by the Gopower, only when it is requested to do so by that appliance it is connected to, not something (those 55 amps that is) that the Gopower pushes down the wire regardless of whether that the Gopower feeds (the DCC30S) likes it or not.
Consider this rule of thumb when buying a power supply. The voltage of the appliance and the current type (AC/DC) must match, while the amperage that the power supply is, at maximum, capable of supplying, must meet or exceed the demands of the appliance.
That toy car which demands a 12V DC 10 amp power source works just fine with a 12V DC 10 amp or greater power source.
Recall the analogy from before that there is nothing wrong with plugging your transistor radio's minimal 2 amp drawing electronics into a 15, 20, 30, etc. amp circuit.
The DCC30S, as you know, does have ability to set the battery type for the house battery, and includes a Lithium charging profile. The DCC30S will sense your house battery's SOC (state of charge) and adjust the current fed to it consistent with the DCC30S' manual's discussion on how Lithium batteries are charged, consistent with that discussed staring in the middle of page 18 of the DCC30S manual, in theory, tapping your 55A Gopower for no more current than that required to charge your Lithium house battery in any one of its charging states.
I would concur with your decision to set the Gopower to provide steady state power. In the capacity you will be using it, it is more like a power supply with zero intelligence of the battery it is charging. It's the DCC30S logic that manages the house and starter batteries' charging.
"I had been thinking to use the ALT+ input of the DCC30 for the charger but I can see the trickle charge advantage of using the PV+ input. It looks to me like whichever terminal I choose I will be wise not to allow 2 current sources to feed either input terminal of the DCC30 simultaneously. "
Yes. In the case of hooking the Gopower up to the alternator terminals on the DCC30S, along with wires from the starter battery, both it and the alternator/starter battery could potentially energize this terminal. And in the case of hooking the Gopower up to the PV terminals of the of the DCC30S, we'd want only that, not a solar panel or other electrical source to additionally provide power on the PV terminal at any one point in time. Of course switch off which of those two inputs were the current (read: present, not amps) one: be it a solar panel OR the Gopower on the PV terminal of the DCC30S, or the Gopower OR the alternator on the Alt input of the DCC30S should be okay.
I should clarify my words here. All connections described are feed by two cables, one going to the common ground in the upper right hand corner of the DCC30S. I think the one exception may one of the inputs on the DCC30S for sensors, like the IGN or battery voltage ones where a ground wire isn't required.
"Then I need to disconnect the charger when the panels are supplying power and disconnect the panels when the charger is supplying."
Yes. At most provide one power source at a time to any of the DCC30S inputs, be it the one for PV, alternator, or house battery. This is not to say that a series of house batteries couldn't be connected together in parallel and/or series and one final set of cables enter the DCC30S. It is to say that don't combine the Gopower with either the alternator on the alternator input on the DCC30S, or a solar panel on the PV input.
Again, this is not to say that a set of solar panels, properly connected in series and/or parallel could not then enter the PV input of the DCC30S as two cables, just like the house battery example of the prior paragraph. Rather it means that I wouldn't allow the Gopower to run to the PV input of the DCC30S at the same time as anywhere from 1 - "300" solar panels supply power to the DCC30S.
"I imagine there would be several ways to accomplish this but simply put I would think a DC 100A SPDT switch would be simple and safe."
Yes. I was taught that a SPDT switch has one input and two outputs, where at most 1 output can be selected, but "yes," where in your case the word "input" is substituted for "output."
mkaye
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- Mar 23, 2020
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it seems like a manual work around to the simple fact that the converter doesn't have an LFP profile
the 'right' thing to do is purchase the correct converter w/LFP profile
it connects directly to the battery
DCC30S has alternator connected to ALT+ - now you get some charging while driving
nothing connected to PV+ until you get solar
now IF you want to charge your engine battery from your converter prior to getting some solar, then, yes, set the converter to fixed output of 14.6V and connect to the PV+ and now you have LFP charging & possibly engine battery charging (when requirements are met)
when solar arrives, it connects to PV+ & converter (LFP profile) goes back directly to the battery
no switches, nothing to remember, it just works
but most people have no requirement to keep their engine battery topped up from the house section?
why the concern?
the 'right' thing to do is purchase the correct converter w/LFP profile
it connects directly to the battery
DCC30S has alternator connected to ALT+ - now you get some charging while driving
nothing connected to PV+ until you get solar
now IF you want to charge your engine battery from your converter prior to getting some solar, then, yes, set the converter to fixed output of 14.6V and connect to the PV+ and now you have LFP charging & possibly engine battery charging (when requirements are met)
when solar arrives, it connects to PV+ & converter (LFP profile) goes back directly to the battery
no switches, nothing to remember, it just works
but most people have no requirement to keep their engine battery topped up from the house section?
why the concern?
-One thing is I just like Gopower. Great product and customer service. I actually called Gopower once while rolling down the road. It's called confidence.
-I did go first looking for chargers with lithium profiles but they are unknowns to me, get spotty reviews on Amazon, and don't respond well to questions. Last thing anyone needs is a device that craps out when you're out there somewhere and a company that doesn't respond. Then the light came on about the DCC30 having a lithium profile and I changed approach.
-The other thing is I like manual solutions. Auto anything makes me nervous. In this case what I like about going through the DCC30 with some manual switching is that I will be able to control the SoC of the batteries. I intend to watch my monitor and disconnect at 80% as much as circumstances allow. And then reconnect at 20%. Maybe there's devices out there that will do that for me automatically but... some cats just hang that way. If the distances around North America weren't what they are I would walk or bike. Manual control.
-Not sure where you got the idea that I hope to charge the starter battery from the house. Or that I'm concerned at all about the SoC of the starter battery. My assumption is that it will get its daily boost from the alternator. If the PV wants to tickle that's okay too but I don't see it as a big bonus. I park indoors 10 months of the year so when it's not on the road it won't be getting PV anyway. More and more sounds like and SPDT on the PV side will work for me.
-Did you or anyone see my question about this product?: https://www.amazon.ca/Ehdis®-JD2912-1Z-12VDC-Vehicle-Automotive-Switch/dp/B01IX7NV0C/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=changeover+relay&qid=1614691745&s=automotive&sr=1-4
I don't know enough to be sure but it looks like a safe way to switch power. ? Being into manual control my first inclination is to make a big old bare copper blade switch. But these little switches look like elegant and cheap solutions.
-I did go first looking for chargers with lithium profiles but they are unknowns to me, get spotty reviews on Amazon, and don't respond well to questions. Last thing anyone needs is a device that craps out when you're out there somewhere and a company that doesn't respond. Then the light came on about the DCC30 having a lithium profile and I changed approach.
-The other thing is I like manual solutions. Auto anything makes me nervous. In this case what I like about going through the DCC30 with some manual switching is that I will be able to control the SoC of the batteries. I intend to watch my monitor and disconnect at 80% as much as circumstances allow. And then reconnect at 20%. Maybe there's devices out there that will do that for me automatically but... some cats just hang that way. If the distances around North America weren't what they are I would walk or bike. Manual control.
-Not sure where you got the idea that I hope to charge the starter battery from the house. Or that I'm concerned at all about the SoC of the starter battery. My assumption is that it will get its daily boost from the alternator. If the PV wants to tickle that's okay too but I don't see it as a big bonus. I park indoors 10 months of the year so when it's not on the road it won't be getting PV anyway. More and more sounds like and SPDT on the PV side will work for me.
-Did you or anyone see my question about this product?: https://www.amazon.ca/Ehdis®-JD2912-1Z-12VDC-Vehicle-Automotive-Switch/dp/B01IX7NV0C/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=changeover+relay&qid=1614691745&s=automotive&sr=1-4
I don't know enough to be sure but it looks like a safe way to switch power. ? Being into manual control my first inclination is to make a big old bare copper blade switch. But these little switches look like elegant and cheap solutions.
no arguments with your logic. I guess I may have been seeing this setup through the lens of my own experience, and how I, personally desire trickle charging of my starter battery given the infrequency with which I've been driving during COVID.
I'm all with you on the idea that @stinky need not be married to the Gopower product, but heck, why not just buy a shore powered 12V 30+amp converter if that's cheapest. @stinky already has a product that can manage the Lithium house battery's charge (the DCC30S) that can also trickle charge the starter battery need be. And the DCC30S' MPPT will adjust the charger's incoming voltage and amperage, holding power pretty much constant, to make sure enough volts get to the house battery, at the expense of some amps.
Of course, in fairness to your idea, a solar panel hooked into the PV inputs and a Lithium battery charger hooked up the house battery's terminals would allow concurrent use of solar and battery charger.
@stinky: no good on the relay you linked. It's rate at 14volts while a solar panel like my 100W and many others one can easily produce higher voltages.
I thought you, preferring the manual way of life, might prefer something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Nilight-1-2-...573&sprefix=battery+a+or+b++sw,aps,188&sr=8-5
Never use this switch on the "1&2" setting....maybe you can find a switch like this that is off, "1", or "2", without "1&2"
-Thanks for the heads up. I intend to keep my PV to nominal 12V if that makes any difference to your assessment of the relay. Really don't anything about solar. I've read mention of voltages drifting around. With temperature? I had thought to have 4 x 100W panels arranged with 2 sets in series and them then in parallel so 24V. But then I watched a Will P video wherein he mentioned the voltage limitation of the DCC30. In the end I decided it will be safer just to put everything in parallel and stay in the shallow end.
-I actually have this switch bookmarked. I guess as long as I don't make a mistake going through the 1+2 setting it should work. And it's manual!! I wonder if I could open it up and disable that centre position. Ideally I would like an either or switch with a neutral position in the middle.
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