Running 240v appliances from a 110v system

[Wanted]

So I have a camper that I'm shipping from the EU to North America to import. Once I arrive in North America I would like to completely redo my electrical system. I was sold on a couple of the EG4 48v 100Ah server rack batteries and the 6500EX 48 inverter. The problem is, switching over to a 110v inverter will make a couple of my 220v appliances unusable. They run between 400-2000w peak. Is there a pragmatic way to run these appliances off of the 110v inverter with some sort of transformer, or a separate 48v-220v cheaper inverter that won't kill my bank account?

Thank you

 

[BentleyJ]

There is an EG4 model 6000EX that is split phase 240/120V. The only issue with using that inverter for a camper is that it requires 240V shore power and not all camp sites are going to offer that.
The alternative is to go ahead and use the 6500EX with an autotransformer to step up the voltage.

 

[Wanted]

There is an EG4 model 6000EX that is split phase 240/120V. The only issue with using that inverter for a camper is that it requires 240V shore power and not all camp sites are going to offer that.
The alternative is to go ahead and use the 6500EX with an autotransformer to step up the voltage.

Hey just a question as I'm a little bit inexperienced with this stuff. I noticed EG4 also has a 3000w inverter that you can double up to be 240v at 6000w? Does this mean I can run both a 110v appliance and a 240v appliance at the same time? Also, would it allow me to charge off of both 110v and 240v mains?

 

[MisterSandals]

will make a couple of my 220v appliances unusable.

Just out of curiosity, what appliances would this be? Maybe it would be a little easier and cheaper to replace them?

 

[Wanted]

Just out of curiosity, what appliances would this be? Maybe it would be a little easier and cheaper to replace them?

They're a 220v BOB dishwasher and Camer washing machine, I don't really want to try to replace either of them. But it seems with 2x 3000w EG4 inverters it can be split phase 240v so they should work. I just don't know enough about these things at the moment. Maybe it was 240v at 3000w, and 110v at 6000w? Charging off of mains isn't a big deal, doesn't matter if I can or not.

I'm just not sure if you can run a 220v appliance off of the split phase inverter while running a 110v appliance at the same time. Also if you can run just one inverter most of the time as single phase, and only turn on the second inverter when I need the 220v appliance, so as to not have an idle power draw when not needed

 

[Pierre]

a Further problem is that your 240v appliances are most likely rated for 50Hz only. In North America you have 60Hz shore supply so how are you going to blend 60Hz AC incoming with 50Hz appliances after the inverter. Never tried this - maybe someone on the forum can elaborate. I was going to suggest buying a Growatt 5000ES 240v 50Hz single phase unit but then you still have the problem of 60Hz mains incoming.

 

[rodrick]

What about going with the 5000es and put a large battery charger in for shore power granted their will be losses in efficiency and ware an tear on batteries and inverter but the system wouldn’t have to be modified

 

[timselectric]

What about going with the 5000es and put a large battery charger in for shore power granted their will be losses in efficiency and ware an tear on batteries and inverter but the system wouldn’t have to be modified

That's a good option. And it would allow them to run 50Hz for their existing equipment.

 

[Wanted]

To be honest in an ideal world I don't want to rely on shore power anyway, I think charging from a 48v alternator and solar panels is enough, and worst case I can just throw a generator in. The van will be based in North America, I was just thinking if I ever ship it over to Asia for an overlanding trip which might happen in a couple of years, but the likelihood of shore power hookup in Asia is slim to none anyway. Good points though, I too am interested in what you said about a 50hz appliance on 60hz shore power

 

[Wanted]

That's a good option. And it would allow them to run 50Hz for their existing equipment.

I'm not sure, I saw a video on this earlier saying you can't hook into North American mains with the ES? Vehicle will be based mostly in North America, at least for the next few years

 

[timselectric]

I'm not sure, I saw a video on this earlier saying you can't hook into North American mains with the ES? Vehicle will be based mostly in North America, at least for the next few years

You wouldn't be connected to the mains directly.
Only the battery charger would be connected to the mains. So, you can charge from 60Hz, and run your existing equipment on 50Hz.

 

[Wanted]

What about going with the 5000es and put a large battery charger in for shore power granted their will be losses in efficiency and ware an tear on batteries and inverter but the system wouldn’t have to be modified

You wouldn't be connected to the mains directly.
Only the battery charger would be connected to the mains. So, you can charge from 60Hz, and run your existing equipment on 50Hz.

Hey thanks for the reply. I've been thinking about this for a few days and thought I'd ask for your opinions as I'm not overly experienced with these systems.

The more I looked into the 5000ES the more it made sense, 240v makes it overland ready in most other countries, I don't even have any 110v appliances as all of my stuff is from Europe or New Zealand. It's got a fairly low idle consumption (70w) in comparison to 2x 3000w EG4-48 inverters, and can use appliances and charge batteries while hooked up to 240v mains, and at the cost of one unit rather than two! The only issue that I realized is the MPPT operating range is 120v-430v, I haven't put solar on my van yet but with the array I'd be looking at 600-800w to start out with, and with the configuration of panels I don't think I'd be anywhere near 120v for the minimum MPPT input. The same thing goes for two EG4 3000w wired for 240v, and I'd need to have 2 units on idle consuming like 150w to even charge the batteries with solar (I could be wrong about idle consumption while just charging batteries through solar?

I thought a potential solution could be 2x Growatt 3000w-24v wired for 240v. The PV MPPT range is 30v-115v which is much more achievable with such a small solar array. But then I'm back to the con of having two unit's with a high idle consumption (especially with only 600-800w solar), but it would make a huge difference if the inverter didn't have to be on at idle in order to charge the batteries. 24v does make things a bit easier to charge batteries from the alternator though, as it's easier to get a 24v alternator than 48v.

Alternatively I could just get the Growatt 5000ES and run the solar panels through a separate MPPT solar charge controller to the batteries. This way the batteries can charge without the inverter being turned on, and I wouldn't be able to charge the batteries through the built in MPPT anyway due to 120v minimum requirement

Is there something I'm missing? Are there any other considerations I should make? What are your thoughts on my ramblings and do you have any suggestions?

 

[rodrick]

I think the inverter can be turned off and the mppt will still charge the only problem is input voltage

 

[rodrick]

Some of the higher watt panels put out 48 to 50 volts and measuring 82 in x40 in could you fit 3 of these on your rv

 

[timselectric]

Alternatively I could just get the Growatt 5000ES and run the solar panels through a separate MPPT solar charge controller to the batteries. This way the batteries can charge without the inverter being turned on, and I wouldn't be able to charge the batteries through the built in MPPT anyway due to 120v minimum requirement

This seems like the best option.
And if parking somewhere for an extended time.
You can put up an array for the built-in SCC.

 

[Wanted]

I think the inverter can be turned off and the mppt will still charge the only problem is input voltage

This seems like the best option.
And if parking somewhere for an extended time.
You can put up an array for the built-in SCC.

Thanks for the replies, it's helping me a lot to get this established. I just discovered the solar array I had was only about 35v because it's mismatched panels. It's possible to go to a 24v system with the 2x Growatt 3000s, means I could charge off the grid in North America, use the 240v appliances through split phase and could just buy an autotransformer if I take it overseas to charge from 240v. The 2x Growatt 3000s MPPT range is 30v-115v. Would it be an issue if my solar array was only 35V? I'm not exactly sure how they work in diff temperatures or if 35v is just too close to the 30v minimum to be practical.

I discovered a 12-24v 1700w DC-DC charger which would be good to charge the bank while driving as I could just run it off my 200A alternator

Edit: Can the split phase inverters output 240v @50hz while getting the 110v AC input at the same time? Might be a stupid question, from everything I have seen on YouTube they do

 

[timselectric]

35v is very close. It could drop below 30v, on a very hot day.
I believe (but haven't checked) that grid frequency is matched by these units. So if the input frequency is 60Hz ,then the output would also be 60Hz.

 

[Pierre]

Hey thanks for the reply. I've been thinking about this for a few days and thought I'd ask for your opinions as I'm not overly experienced with these systems.

The more I looked into the 5000ES the more it made sense, 240v makes it overland ready in most other countries, I don't even have any 110v appliances as all of my stuff is from Europe or New Zealand. It's got a fairly low idle consumption (70w) in comparison to 2x 3000w EG4-48 inverters, and can use appliances and charge batteries while hooked up to 240v mains, and at the cost of one unit rather than two! The only issue that I realized is the MPPT operating range is 120v-430v, I haven't put solar on my van yet but with the array I'd be looking at 600-800w to start out with, and with the configuration of panels I don't think I'd be anywhere near 120v for the minimum MPPT input. The same thing goes for two EG4 3000w wired for 240v, and I'd need to have 2 units on idle consuming like 150w to even charge the batteries with solar (I could be wrong about idle consumption while just charging batteries through solar?

I thought a potential solution could be 2x Growatt 3000w-24v wired for 240v. The PV MPPT range is 30v-115v which is much more achievable with such a small solar array. But then I'm back to the con of having two unit's with a high idle consumption (especially with only 600-800w solar), but it would make a huge difference if the inverter didn't have to be on at idle in order to charge the batteries. 24v does make things a bit easier to charge batteries from the alternator though, as it's easier to get a 24v alternator than 48v.

Alternatively I could just get the Growatt 5000ES and run the solar panels through a separate MPPT solar charge controller to the batteries. This way the batteries can charge without the inverter being turned on, and I wouldn't be able to charge the batteries through the built in MPPT anyway due to 120v minimum requirement

Is there something I'm missing? Are there any other considerations I should make? What are your thoughts on my ramblings and do you have any suggestions?

This is what I do. I have 2,1kWp connected to the 5000ES but I also have two smaller panels 660Wp connected to a Victron 150/30 MPPT connected directly to the battery . Works great as part of the day I divert the main PV to the water heater and at least I still charge the battery during this. I have no issues when both the Growatt and the Victron charge the battery.

 

[Mattb4]

Why not simply get a separate mobile inverter spec-ed to run your 230v 50hz appliances? It can connect to the same batteries as your regular 120v AIO does. Lot simpler and cheaper than 240v split phase inverter setups. I see several over on Aliexpress

 

[rodrick]

Why not simply get a separate mobile inverter spec-ed to run your 230v 50hz appliances? It can connect to the same batteries as your regular 120v AIO does. Lot simpler and cheaper than 240v split phase inverter setups. I see several over on Aliexpress

I believe the 5000 es he’s looking at is single phase 230 50hz model