Schneider Conext XW Pro 6848
- Thread starter etanstaafl
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BentleyJ
Solar Wizard
Good suggestion, will give it a try.
dougbert
Solar Addict
here is a link to a github repo with the python program I wrote to read the MPPT 60 150 units
GitHub - dougbertwashere/mppt60: Python program to read Schneider-Electric Conext MPPT 60 150 solar charge controller using Modbus through the Conext InsightLocal Gateway
Python program to read Schneider-Electric Conext MPPT 60 150 solar charge controller using Modbus through the Conext InsightLocal Gateway - GitHub - dougbertwashere/mppt60: Python program to read S...
github.com
I use the pyModbusTCP module
fwiw
I am planning to write an extension to read the XW Pro as well from that
MichaelK
Solar Wizard
Page 38 of your installation manual. A 3kWh battery for the Pro is tiny. Here is the recommendation from the manual...
440Ah X 48V = 21kWh battery, 7X what you are suggesting. The inverter or batteries could be damaged from ripple current with a battery as small as you are suggesting. I believe the problem is most detrimental on capacitors and rectifiers. Could the EEs here please chime in? For my own XW+ system, it is scaled to 27 kWh.
BentleyJ
Solar Wizard
With an XW+ I started out with a 150Ah battery and have since added another 120Ah battery, total of 270Ah. So far no problems and the capacity is enough to get us through the summer 4pm to 9pm flex alert period while running the whole house including a central AC unit. The next DIY battery is going to be 560Ah.
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Allgood-Energy
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The XW-pro will do all you want it to with some caviots. The Solar PV can Charge your batteries during the Day and Run your house loads as well but only up to the 6400 watt level on 1 XWpro or higher watts with multiple units. The battey or batteries you have and the amount of loads will determine how long you can run on the stored energy in the batteries. I for instance I have 22.5 kwh (Kilowatt Hours) of battery storage with the 3 Kilovault Hab 4 batteries on my system. This means if they are charged fully they will provide 1000 Watts of power to my loads for 22.5 hours, or 500 watts for 45 hours.
The system if setup properly will act just like an uninterruptible power supply, like what is used on your PC. When the Grid goes off the inverter takes over with the PV power if the sun is shining or if not the battery will supply the energy. The Inverter has a built in battery charger that can recharge the battery in situations when in the winter the sun is greyed out by clouds, and you have to top off the batteries from the grid power if it is available. Or use the store power from your batteries in an emergency, sun is down and the Grid is OFF. The battery can supply the energy, but what you have to figure out is what is absolutely necessary because those batteries won't supply energy forever. Thus you have to balance your needs to the cost of those expensive Lithium Ion batteries. Balance the battery cost with your emergency needs. The Solar Array can be very large and supply a major part of your energy during the day but when the sun goes your only source is either the grid or batteries. The question you have to ask yourself is do you want to cycle the batteries and use some of that stored energy at night. So yo need to figure out that cost. batteries are not free and have a limited number of cycles. So if you look at the cost of each battery cycle you will find that in most cases the cost of Grid energy is much less than the cost of the use of a cycle of the battery. My recommendation is to save your batteries for emergencies and buy power at night and conserve when you can. If you live in a sunny location lucky for you. Also if your grid provider allows you to sell back to the grid great but charge your battery full first and then consume all you need and sell the excess. If you have a small system you will learn to conserve. Ways to conserve is to find energy efficient appliances and use LED lighting and turn it off if you are not using it. I am setting up a whole home management system thru Home Assistant. The reason I chose the Schneider Electric XWpro was this video.
The reason this inverter is so good is the built in transformer you can't do what this inverter can do without it. These other inverters don't have the copper built in that allows you to provide 6800 watts continuous and 8500 watts for 30 minutes and 12000 watts for 30 seconds. It will start your large inductive loads like your air conditioner you vacuum your Furnace Fan and your air compressor. That's impressive. Other inverter designs don't use a transformer and only use silicon devices to carry out the AC Sign Wave generation, when the current goes above the silicons limit they have to shut off the current. With a transformer the electronics is quite different, because the inductive nature of large coils of copper that stores energy this is the magic of transformers. Analog XL/XC and R. AC circuit design. Digital is needed for control but magnetics is need for power and motion.
The XW-pro also has a AC Generator input but both the AC1 and Gen inputs cannot be used at the same time. This Generator input can be used for either a generator of a AC coupled PV Array (Micro Inverters).
I am not saying that this inverter is perfect, I am saying it has some impressive capabilities that I like, However, they do have some Software and Firmware issues that need to be addressed as well as some issues lying to the public about things like advertising they have closed loop integration with a battery vendor, when it does not work properly.
This has been an expensive system to build but beats the pants off the competition when it comes to running inductive loads.
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BentleyJ
Solar Wizard
You may be confusing the Schneider AC2 input functionality with the Sol-Ark. As far as I know the Schneider AC couples directly via the Load Side and does not have AC coupling functionality via the AC2 (generator) input.
I could be wrong on this since I'm using the older XW+ model not the Pro which has had some hardware and firmware changes.
Allgood-Energy
Prepare Yee Prepare Yee for End of Days
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Yea You are Right about the AC Coupling Using AC 1 But I think you Could also Run the AC PV into the Gen Port If you turn on AC Grid forming Mode. I could also be Incorrect here. My system has no micro inverters.
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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The battery bank requirements have a lot to do with the high ripple current of both a true sine wave inverter and the power factor corrected charging. The battery is subjected to current that is pulsing from zero to about 140% of the average current at double the line frequency. The first time I checked my battery current with my clamp meter on AC I was shocked to see this AC ripple current. But once I realized what it is doing, I see why it i like that. The capacitor bank does smooth out the switching frequency, but you would need truly huge capacitors to try and filter the 120 Hz humps.
Batteries all have an internal resistance. That part is easy to understand at a steady DC current. But they also have an AC impedance at higher frequencies. The spec sheet for the XW series inverters was mostly written with lead acid batteries in mind. And with Flooded wet cell batteries, 440 AH was probably a reasonable lower limit. Many lithium batteries have far lower internal resistance and impedance, but you still need to think about what this ripple current might do to the batteries. In essence, it is going from charging to discharging 120 times a second. The average current is the amount either charging or discharging. I started with 360 amp hours of Li NMC cells, and they had no problem handling the current and ripple without any noticeable heating issue. I did try adding capacitors at the battery bank, but the magnitude of the ripple was virtually unchanged. When I thought about it, it made sense. I was only adding about 20% to the capacitance of the filter bank that is already in the XW-Pro inverter.
A DC charge controller is a much smoother steady DC current flow. So using DC-C charge controllers is certainly easier on the batteries, there is nothing you can really do about making single phase AC without imposing a lot of ripple current. Producing 3 phase AC would produce far less total ripple. The average current of 3 phase AC is far smoother as the current peak overlap each other. I work with AC to DC rectifier power supplies. The output filtering needed on a simple 3 phase diode bridge to get smooth DC is minimal. The ripple frequency is 360 Hz, so a much smaller inductor and capacitor bank is able to smooth out the already much smaller peak to peak ripple. The same would also be true for the input current ripple that would be created converting DC to true sine wave AC 3 phase power.
400bird
Solar Wizard
Pretty sure that's a no. Definitely a SolArk feature that I don't see the benefit to.
The XW needs to qualify any AC input before it is going to close the corresponding input relays. So, it would be impossible to test and qualify the AC input when the grid tie solar inverter needs to see an AC input from the grid before it outputs anything.
Also, as already mentioned, the Schneider will never close both AC input 1 and AC input 2 at the same time.
Allgood-Energy
Prepare Yee Prepare Yee for End of Days
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Just so you are not caught off guard the Sell amps Maximum is 27 amps, remembering you have to have the PV energy coming in on the PV. This equates to 6480 Watts. That's 27amps X 240 Volts. So the Inverter will be almost at max output. When selling you have to remember that any loads on the AC1 output will consume any sell amps before the meter will record any excess power. The Dashboard will not show the power sold back to the grid, only the kw going out AC1. I am not sure about the implementation of a Watt-node device that allows you to monitor the output. Enables you to monitor the output and not sell back if you want to prevent selling back to the grid.
First off the 6848 series will not mix and match with earlier 4548 or sw boxes.
Combox refuses to work with 6848 units.
Gateway of Insight Home work with 6848 or sw I suspect.
A gateway has two XanBus's so it can communicate with 4548 and 6848. Likely with 6848 and sw.
The only load outputs that can ever be safely tied together are two or more 6848+ or pro units.
As far a AC coupling goes. I have a xw 6848 Pro. It allows me to put grid tie inverters on the load side. When I have more pv energy than load drains the 6848 will revert to battery charging to maintain system balance.
Combox refuses to work with 6848 units.
Gateway of Insight Home work with 6848 or sw I suspect.
A gateway has two XanBus's so it can communicate with 4548 and 6848. Likely with 6848 and sw.
The only load outputs that can ever be safely tied together are two or more 6848+ or pro units.
As far a AC coupling goes. I have a xw 6848 Pro. It allows me to put grid tie inverters on the load side. When I have more pv energy than load drains the 6848 will revert to battery charging to maintain system balance.
The add says its a 6848.
Schneider Electric Conext XW+ 6848
5 years old, work great, split phase 120 or 240volts output. Come with com box.
48v battery base system.
Schneider Electric
Model Number XW+ 6848 NA
(865-6848-01)
Is 1800 a good price?
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GXMnow
Solar Wizard
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The processor board is very different between the XW+ and the XW-Pro. While the "+" was capable of most of the functions that the Pro can do, it does not have enough processor power to handle some of the more advanced functions. The big one is that it does not support advanced grid codes like CA Rule21. Also when it is running in Off Grid AC coupled mode, the "+" can't regulate the charge current with frequency shift like the "Pro" can. it won't raise the frequency until the battery is full. While these limitations are not that big of a deal in many uses, for a large AC coupled array in California, it is a problem. From what I understand, the actual inverter block and the transformer are the same. So if you are DC coupled Off Grid the "+" will work just fine. The older ComBox and the SCP can also access al functions in the "+", but to setup and operate a "Pro" you need a Gateway or an Insight box due to the larger menu structure.
I always ask -- why is it being sold if its so great.
BentleyJ
Solar Wizard
No one actually answered your question. Since "price/value" is subjective this is just my opinion. While the XW+ is a very good product overall and has worked well for many of us on this forum, that model is getting dated. $1,800 for the inverter and the ComBox is not outrageous but is certainly not a bargain either. $1,000 to $1,500 for both seems more appropriate.
Eber
Student of MacGyver
Ebay shows these at 3000+ Bucks. that is insane because SS shows them new at $3500.
for the pro model i believe
