Signature Solar EG4 6.5K Off-Grid Inverter | 6500EX-48

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With these high tech, multi-function inverters and rack mount batteries all connected and communicating, shouldn't stuff just work?

You'd think in this day and age, with a laptop or smartphone that you could just run through a simple setup wizard where you select the battery model, split phase parallel function, and boom...done. There should also be safe, conservative defaults that simply work, then you tweak from there.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

With these high tech, multi-function inverters and rack mount batteries all connected and communicating, shouldn't stuff just work?

You'd think in this day and age, with a laptop or smartphone that you could just run through a simple setup wizard where you select the battery model, split phase parallel function, and boom...done. There should also be safe, conservative defaults that simply work, then you tweak from there.

The person who figures out a dongle that has all the possible inputs/outputs and 'just makes them work' will be a very rich man.

 

[John Frum]

The person who figures out a dongle that has all the possible inputs/outputs and 'just makes them work' will be a very rich man.

This should have been done right, the first time, industry wide.
Should have been an interop bake-off.

 

[Shannonsman229]

No

I get the feeling that my questions are being skipped in this forum on this subject and I'm unable to get a hold of technical support from signature solar or a call back is because communication between paralleled units have not been established sufficiently before rolling out this inverter.
Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

You're able to answer the question is it ok to be mounted outside because that has been established..... even reply to dongle communication futuristic wants. I'm asking you please help on this existing problem or even a temporary solution till the glitch is resolved. If you do not have an answer that's fine to let people know while you resolve the issue.
In the beginning of this thread it seems like every question thrown was answered promptly. Now that they have been rolled out and communication is not established like advertised I'm getting silence.
The reason I switched over to these units is because they were supposed to communicate and work together with the battery system that I purchased.
I switched over from the 5000 es because I had nothing but problems with installing these as described without a ground Loop. I am yet to see a diagram showing how the US version can be installed properly without this ground Loop utilizing grid assistance.
Would it be outta line to ask for full refund on items that do not function as described when purchased from a company? untill these issues are resolved or am I able to talk to someone about the issues. would it be suffice to go elsewhere for equipment?

 

[Shannonsman229]

I want to reiterate that issues do arise an in any system set up. Signature solar has been great on every one of my issues except for these two. I'm sure they will resolve them but in the meantime I'm in the dark once again.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I get the feeling that my questions are being skipped in this forum on this subject and I'm unable to get a hold of technical support from signature solar or a call back is because communication between paralleled units have not been established sufficiently before rolling out this inverter.
Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

You're able to answer the question is it ok to be mounted outside because that has been established..... even reply to dongle communication futuristic wants. I'm asking you please help on this existing problem or even a temporary solution till the glitch is resolved. If you do not have an answer that's fine to let people know while you resolve the issue.
In the beginning of this thread it seems like every question thrown was answered promptly. Now that they have been rolled out and communication is not established like advertised I'm getting silence.
The reason I switched over to these units is because they were supposed to communicate and work together with the battery system that I purchased.
I switched over from the 5000 es because I had nothing but problems with installing these as described without a ground Loop. I am yet to see a diagram showing how the US version can be installed properly without this ground Loop utilizing grid assistance.
Would it be outta line to ask for full refund on items that do not function as described when purchased from a company? untill these issues are resolved or am I able to talk to someone about the issues. would it be suffice to go elsewhere for equipment?

I'm not trying to skip over anyone's questions at all. I do my best to jump on here and answer questions as often as I can and for quick answers it's easy to pop in and out. For longer more detailed questions it may take some time to get an answer. I feel like I've been highly responsive to your private messages to me directly. Our tech team is always busy and working to get answers as fast as possible. I'll see if I can find an update and have them reach out to you.

 

[Shannonsman229]

I'm not trying to skip over anyone's questions at all. I do my best to jump on here and answer questions as often as I can and for quick answers it's easy to pop in and out. For longer more detailed questions it may take some time to get an answer. I feel like I've been highly responsive to your private messages to me directly. Our tech team is always busy and working to get answers as fast as possible. I'll see if I can find an update and have them reach out to you.

Understood, makes sense, yes you have been very responsive in PM and thanks.

 

[Will Prowse]

I still fail to see the benefit of any of these communication protocols. Especially with a large bank. If one pack has a problem, the whole system is down. Without communication, you get redundancy because if one pack fails, the BMS disconnects that pack and the system continues to function. I also cycle with 100% dod because I use lifepo4. Even throttling current at high and low soc with communication isn't necessary considering the size of the pack. And the fact that the internal resistance value changes regardless. What's the benefit here?

 

[z_zk_z]

Okay what am I missing here? I have it set for sbu. Charging set to snu. I wake up at 2am in the morning with no power. All six batteries down to one LED light. The alarm on the battery was on because it was so low of course. Battery bank was at full charge last night 8:30pm.
1: two 5000es in parralel last all night no problem. Never hooked to grid never needed to. why did these not last through the night?
2: why did the utility bypass not kick in as i have it enabled. Should have charged battery bank and bypassed until battery bank was charged to the setting recommended in quick start then jumped back to battery.

Settings have been triple checked. Am i doing settings wrong or something?

I would first look for any load that could possibly deplete 30,000 watts in less than six hours (six batteries) or 5000 watts every hour. If my mini-split HVAC was on continuously, it would have consumed 1000 watts, so in 30 hours (a little more than a day), it would have depleted all the six batteries. You need to setup simple tests to check the logic/control. For example, by turning off the solar or battery or utility input(s) and see if the inverter will do what you programmed it to do…

 

[Shannonsman229]

I still fail to see the benefit of any of these communication protocols. Especially with a large bank. If one pack has a problem, the whole system is down. Without communication, you get redundancy because if one pack fails, the BMS disconnects that pack and the system continues to function. I also cycle with 100% dod because I use lifepo4. Even throttling current at high and low soc with communication isn't necessary considering the size of the pack. And the fact that the internal resistance value changes regardless. What's the benefit here?

I have six of the lifep04 I just want to dial in the batteries so that I get the best out life out of them. I will do a bunch of research and see if there's anything I can do with a non-communication settings to achieve this.

 

[robby]

I still fail to see the benefit of any of these communication protocols. Especially with a large bank. If one pack has a problem, the whole system is down. Without communication, you get redundancy because if one pack fails, the BMS disconnects that pack and the system continues to function. I also cycle with 100% dod because I use lifepo4. Even throttling current at high and low soc with communication isn't necessary considering the size of the pack. And the fact that the internal resistance value changes regardless. What's the benefit here?

Because it does not work that way when properly implemented. Properly meaning the Inverter is not just using some Generic info on battery voltage and SOC but that it also knows the Size of each battery attached, the different charging voltages the pack requires, the Temp, the SOC and it can communicate back to the BMS.
In the case of a Sol-Ark if one out of six eFlex batteries goes offline it just recalculates the total Amps from 600A to 500A and will adjust the max Amp draw accordingly. As far as I know this data will also be used by the new Smart Load panel so it can estimate runtime and know what to disconnect if power is getting low relative to the pack size.

 

[FilterGuy]

I have six of the lifep04 I just want to dial in the batteries so that I get the best out life out of them. I will do a bunch of research and see if there's anything I can do with a non-communication settings to achieve this.

Does this help you:

 

[Shannonsman229]

Thank you for the detailed setup. I have been using this which is closer to the parameters you recommend

 

[Will Prowse]

Because it does not work that way when properly implemented. Properly meaning the Inverter is not just using some Generic info on battery voltage and SOC but that it also knows the Size of each battery attached, the different charging voltages the pack requires, the Temp, the SOC and it can communicate back to the BMS.
In the case of a Sol-Ark if one out of six eFlex batteries goes offline it just recalculates the total Amps from 600A to 500A and will adjust the max Amp draw accordingly. As far as I know this data will also be used by the new Smart Load panel so it can estimate runtime and know what to disconnect if power is getting low relative to the pack size.

Yes I understand how it works and I still don't see the benefit. 500A instead of 600A? When are you pulling that large of a load from a solar system? .1C is maximum if you have calculated your days of autonomy correctly. Never in a server rack systems life will it be pulling more than .2C. Charging with HVD as the only means of a disconnect is 100% fine. If this was a high charge or discharge application, controlling the current is very important. But for charging with solar? How? If I pull 200A with my array, I'm only charging a typical 6 rack stack with .3C. Why would I ever need to throttle such a low current? And at high soc, as long as you do not exceed max recommended absorption voltage, or required internal cell temperature, you can charge just fine with CC/CV.

Now if you are using lifepo4 cells in a EV and you are charging at 5-10C, the internal cell temp and taper of current needs to be perfect. But at .3C? Absolutely not. The cells aren't even warm. I don't see a single logical reason for throttling the current. I used to balance charge lithium polymer packs and pull 100-150C. I know the issues you run into and I did catch packs on fire. But .1-.3C on a lifepo4 is nothing. Unless someone can post data showing that at this low c rate, throttle current is recommended.

 

[robby]

Yes I understand how it works and I still don't see the benefit. 500A instead of 600A? When are you pulling that large of a load from a solar system? .1C is maximum if you have calculated your days of autonomy correctly. Never in a server rack systems life will it be pulling more than .2C. Charging with HVD as the only means of a disconnect is 100% fine. If this was a high charge or discharge application, controlling the current is very important. But for charging with solar? How? If I pull 200A with my array, I'm only charging a typical 6 rack stack with .3C. Why would I ever need to throttle such a low current? And at high soc, as long as you do not exceed max recommended absorption voltage, or required internal cell temperature, you can charge just fine with CC/CV.

Now if you are using lifepo4 cells in a EV and you are charging at 5-10C, the internal cell temp and taper of current needs to be perfect. But at .3C? Absolutely not. The cells aren't even warm. I don't see a single logical reason for throttling the current. I used to balance charge lithium polymer packs and pull 100-150C. I know the issues you run into and I did catch packs on fire. But .1-.3C on a lifepo4 is nothing. Unless someone can post data showing that at this low c rate, throttle current is recommended.

I was mainly pointing out that it does not disconnect the whole battery system because one pack has gone out.

I agree with you on the idea that if everything is sized correctly it is not going to be an issue, but most people don't have everything sized correctly. I started with 10KWh of batteries and it was the Sol-Ark that would remind me if my current draw was getting near to the limit. It was also mandatory by Fortress power that if I used only two batteries that I had a closed loop connection for the 12K SA. If I did not the Warranty would be void. Three batteries was there minimum amount for a systems without closed loop. I can see why because if you only have two and accidently power down one battery the other one will most likely get overloaded and burn out the built in Class T-Fuse.

 

[paulmurdoch]

I currently have x3 solar panel strings with a VOC 480V ISC 15amps for each string. Currently it's set up to sell back to the grid via Solar edge inverter. I'm considering going off grid using the grid only as back up power. I'm considering purchasing x8 EG4 48V batteries and x3 Eg4 6.5K inverters.
Before diving into this I have a couple of questions, hopefully someone can answer:

1. I currently have grid 240V inputs to two 200AMP consumer panels - How could that work using the grid only as back up?
2. To accommodate the x3 PV strings I'm considering purchasing x3 inverters, one for each string. How would the 3rd inverter be connected to to the 240V AC?

Thanks for your help!
Paul

 

[Shannonsman229]

I currently have x3 solar panel strings with a VOC 480V ISC 15amps for each string. Currently it's set up to sell back to the grid via Solar edge inverter. I'm considering going off grid using the grid only as back up power. I'm considering purchasing x8 EG4 48V batteries and x3 Eg4 6.5K inverters.
Before diving into this I have a couple of questions, hopefully someone can answer:

1. I currently have grid 240V inputs to two 200AMP consumer panels - How could that work using the grid only as back up?
2. To accommodate the x3 PV strings I'm considering purchasing x3 inverters, one for each string. How would the 3rd inverter be connected to to the 240V AC?

Thanks for your help!
Paul

I'm seeing a setup for split phase that I am using with two inverters. Looks like you would have to do it even number inverters if you want split phase 120/240. Then you would just use current sharing wires between the common phases.

 

[paulmurdoch]

I'm seeing a setup for split phase that I am using with two inverters. Looks like you would have to do it even number inverters if you want split phase 120/240. Then you would just use current sharing wires between the common phases.

Makes complete sense! Is the EG4 manual downloadable?
Thanks

 

[Shannonsman229]

Makes complete sense! Is the EG4 manual downloadable?
Thanks

Yes it is on signature solar website. You will click on the EG4 6.5 inverter. It will give you some download options

 

[Shannonsman229]

I would first look for any load that could possibly deplete 30,000 watts in less than six hours (six batteries) or 5000 watts every hour. If my mini-split HVAC was on continuously, it would have consumed 1000 watts, so in 30 hours (a little more than a day), it would have depleted all the six batteries. You need to setup simple tests to check the logic/control. For example, by turning off the solar or battery or utility input(s) and see if the inverter will do what you programmed it to do…

It looks like all of my settings did not take I have to be vigilant and back out on each setting that I set triple check it make sure that it stays there. Then I have to shut everything down completely turn it back on and double triple check that all of their settings are correct. Today all is well we will see about tonight. I have my 3.5 ton AC pumping away no problem. The only thing I have noticed as I have to balance my load panel. One of the inverters is out putting more than the other. No big deal that's expected on these type of setups.