Sol-Ark 15K All in One Inverter Released.

[Supervstech]

With my Sensi Smart Thermostats I can tell the unit to never use the AUX heating mode.

It hasn't really gotten cold enough here yet to get below the Heat Pumps ability to generate heat.

The new MR Cool universal I installed works great.

@RV10flyer What do you think about them going back to low pressure Gas? Getting rid of the 134a?

Probably make the units last longer because of lower coil pressure?

Wait

I have a customer using sensi and is having a heck of a time with aux usage.
How did you set them not to use aux?

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Wait

I have a customer using sensi and is having a heck of a time with aux usage.
How did you set them not to use aux?

Not in front of it right now but when I get home tonight I can look.

Its in the menu.

Had something to do with BOOST feature if remember correctly..

Did they wire the thermostat themselves?

If not wired correctly it will do funny things. Ask me how I know.

You can change all kinds of things in the menu.
Type of Reversing valve, signaling, ect.
I had to get in touch with Sensi but they told me how to do it.

My units have not used AUX heat since I made the change..

Sensi keeps logs of what mode its in and for how long..

 

[mvonw]

I was just watching one of Sol Ark’s promotional videos. They strongly imply they design and manufacture these inverters. Don’t they rebadge Deye inverters?

 

[Wet1]

Yes, although I'm sure they have design input as they have exclusive distribution rights on some inverters, not to mention (in general) the NA market is most likely to use this much power.

 

[niktak11]

I was just watching one of Sol Ark’s promotional videos. They strongly imply they design and manufacture these inverters. Don’t they rebadge Deye inverters?

At the very least, sol ark does everything in the bottom portion of the inverter. I think they design (but deye manufactures) the top portion as well.

 

[jasonhc73]

Isn’t a pair of mpp 6548 units split phase over 12kW? 4 would be 26kW…

I have a set of 6548's. They are not capable of continuous use over 10k, they heat up way too much.
However, 4 6548's would be able to run 10k with barely a nudge up from the baseline temps.

 

[niktak11]

I have a set of 6548's. They are not capable of continuous use over 10k, they heat up way too much.
However, 4 6548's would be able to run 10k with barely a nudge up from the baseline temps.

MPP Solar really needs to release an updated 6548 with a 600V PV input, at least 100A of passthrough, and limit to home exporting.

 

[jasonhc73]

I think I'd rather have two 12K's than one 15K but thats just me. Redundancy is a big deal, and you have more power with two 12K's than you with one 15K from what I can tell.

There is no redundancy in parallel systems. One goes kaput, the entire setup is kaput.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

There is no redundancy in parallel systems. One goes kaput, the entire setup is kaput.

Not even close.

Each Sol-Ark will run independent or stacked.

If one goes down just unplug cat 6 cable and good one will take off.

Just won’t get as much power.

 

[RayofSunshine]

I have a 40 or 50 (?) gallon Rheem HPWH which I purchased 2 years ago. I kick myself for not buying it years earlier! Not only has it drastically reduced electricity consumption, but the dehumidification and AC byproduct from it has made a noticable difference in air quality as well.

We've never had any issues with it keeping up 99% of the time in heat pump only mode. Only one time did it not keep up in HP only mode and that was with laundry going and three showers within an hour or so. In energy saver mode it will allow the resistance heaters to kick in only if the water temp drops too low, which would've covered that one time we started to run out of hot water.

I highly recommend getting one if you're still using a traditional electric WH!

Some background:
I'm going solar, as my 38 year old asphalt shingle roof needs replacing. My current 80 gal gas WH (in the basement of my 2 story Colonial) is about 14 yrs old, so it is on borrowed time. Since I already have a high efficiency (gas) furnace (next to the WH in the basement), the WH is the only thing using the (~6" round metal) chimney. I want to get rid of the chimney poking through the roof (so I don't have to interrupt PV panel layout), so I was thinking to install a high efficiency gas on demand WH. I could hook up the (low temp) exhaust to the PVC already in place for the furnace. I can cut off the now redundant chimney in the attic, remove the rest of it poking through the roof, and replacing the sheathing. I could then use the now unused chimney to route electrical cables from the PV panels on the roof, through the 2 floors of living space, down to the basement (where the main breaker panel resides, and where I want to locate the inverter and LFP ESS). So no ugly conduit on the exterior siding of the house or through any walls. Just whatever code (or common sense) requires for (possibly high DC voltage) cables on the interior of the house. I'm thinking some Schedule 40 PVC should do the trick, but I'll ask the perspective solar installers when they come to assess my situation.

Now, to the point:
I then considered a regular HPWH, or a hybrid gas/HPWH (which uses a gas burner instead of an electrical heating element to help the heat pump if it is struggling to keep up). My question is this: Did you consider an on-demand WH (gas or electric), and/or do you have any comments on the subject?

Also, I realize the "air conditioning" side benefits of the heat pump in the *summer*, but in the *winter* I'm transferring heat from the basement air - which has been heated (solely via conduction/convection) by the gas furnace - to the water in the storage tank; cooling and dehumidifying the basement air (which then cools the floor of the 1st floor via conduction). Seems pretty inefficient - holistically speaking. At least here in NJ, where it does get a bit nippy from time to time. And that got me thinking about better use of available thermal energy. Like having a heat pump that had the capability to select from at least 2 (and maybe 3) different input air sources. In the summer, I could select the ambient basement air, or even better: have PVC or other ducting run from the attic, garage, or even garage attic, which would have beaucoup thermal energy available for transfer. This would reduce the time that the heat pump would have to run. In the winter, maybe the attic would still have enough excess energy to heat the water more efficiently (at least on sunny days). Or maybe you could use the exhaust of the furnace - which should still contain more thermal energy than the ambient basement air. Of course this source/exhaust would have to be isolated completely from other paths due to the noxious gasses contained in the furnace exhaust. Then *those* ideas led me to another idea: since heat is an enemy of efficient PV generation, why hasn't anyone designed a device/structure that would serve as both an air/water heat exchanger AND a structure to which PV solar panels could be mounted? Obviously made of aluminum, it doesn't have to have fins like a radiator, but rather a series of very thin/shallow but wide compartments through which water would pass, transferring heat from the air behind the PV panels to the water, back down to the storage tank. The frame of the exchanger could mount directly to/through either an existing roof (just like a rack system currently does), or - if for new construction or roof replacement - the decking (like GAF's Decotech or Timberline Solar "integrated" systems). No exposed underside for critters to use as a nest or chew toy. You could plumb them in any combination of series & parallel and monitor the input & output water pressure of each exchanger to detect leaks. Use insulated Pex for connections and transmission to storage tank. You could also employ a larger storage tank and/or store the water at a much higher temperature (by continually circulating water from tank to roof until the highest "safe" temperature is reached). You would then need a mixing valve to mix in a cold water supply to bring the output of the storage tank to the usual safe (~130-150 deg F) level. With this idea you'd have a low profile system that cools the PV panels (making them more efficient) and gives you all the hot water you can use at the same time (for *FREE*). You can even have supplemental gas/electric heat at/near the storage tank for extended stormy times in cold northern climates. I will admit this lends itself more to new construction or roof replacement, but it sure seems to make things a *lot* more efficient...

This seems to be an obvious efficiency gain with a seemingly reasonable increase in expense. Have I missed something here? Did I just give away a big opportunistic idea?

Anyways, for your consideration... My immediate interest is with the on-demand gas WH vs HPWH comparison (& the side issue of running the HPWH in the winter in the basement). The rest is just a lot of "Why hasn't anybody produced something like this?".

 

[robby]

I was just watching one of Sol Ark’s promotional videos. They strongly imply they design and manufacture these inverters. Don’t they rebadge Deye inverters?

They design them in the USA and they write all the firmware. Then they have Deye manufacturer the upper half in China and they do the Lower half in the USA. In return Deye is allowed to use the design on their own inverters so long as they are not manufactored as Split phase units for use in the USA.

 

[mvonw]

They design them in the USA and they write all the firmware. Then they have Deye manufacturer the upper half in China and they do the Lower half in the USA. In return Deye is allowed to use the design on their own inverters so long as they are not manufactored as Split phase units for use in the USA.

Oh, that’s definitely legit (and smart). I feel a bit better giving my money to a US firm, even if it costs a bit more..

 

[robby]

Oh, that’s definitely legit (and smart). I feel a bit better giving my money to a US firm, even if it costs a bit more..

I will also spend my money with a US company even if it costs more! Especially one that is offering great product and provides excellent service for their customers. Sol-Ark will literally walk you through a setting or setup issue and if your still having problems with the settings they will ask your permission to log in and they will fix it.

 

[SolarHead]

Sol-Ark has some of the best customer service that I have experienced any where with any product period.

 

[mvonw]

Sol-Ark has some of the best customer service that I have experienced any where with any product period.

That’s fantastic. As a business owner, I know how hard it is to provide good customer support. Finding and retaining people who are both knowledgeable and personable and patient is so rare (and expensive) People are so demanding and rude sometimes, customer support can be brutal…

 

[Wet1]

Some background:
I'm going solar, as my 38 year old asphalt shingle roof needs replacing. My current 80 gal gas WH (in the basement of my 2 story Colonial) is about 14 yrs old, so it is on borrowed time. Since I already have a high efficiency (gas) furnace (next to the WH in the basement), the WH is the only thing using the (~6" round metal) chimney. I want to get rid of the chimney poking through the roof (so I don't have to interrupt PV panel layout), so I was thinking to install a high efficiency gas on demand WH. I could hook up the (low temp) exhaust to the PVC already in place for the furnace. I can cut off the now redundant chimney in the attic, remove the rest of it poking through the roof, and replacing the sheathing. I could then use the now unused chimney to route electrical cables from the PV panels on the roof, through the 2 floors of living space, down to the basement (where the main breaker panel resides, and where I want to locate the inverter and LFP ESS). So no ugly conduit on the exterior siding of the house or through any walls. Just whatever code (or common sense) requires for (possibly high DC voltage) cables on the interior of the house. I'm thinking some Schedule 40 PVC should do the trick, but I'll ask the perspective solar installers when they come to assess my situation.

Now, to the point:
I then considered a regular HPWH, or a hybrid gas/HPWH (which uses a gas burner instead of an electrical heating element to help the heat pump if it is struggling to keep up). My question is this: Did you consider an on-demand WH (gas or electric), and/or do you have any comments on the subject?

Also, I realize the "air conditioning" side benefits of the heat pump in the *summer*, but in the *winter* I'm transferring heat from the basement air - which has been heated (solely via conduction/convection) by the gas furnace - to the water in the storage tank; cooling and dehumidifying the basement air (which then cools the floor of the 1st floor via conduction). Seems pretty inefficient - holistically speaking. At least here in NJ, where it does get a bit nippy from time to time. And that got me thinking about better use of available thermal energy. Like having a heat pump that had the capability to select from at least 2 (and maybe 3) different input air sources. In the summer, I could select the ambient basement air, or even better: have PVC or other ducting run from the attic, garage, or even garage attic, which would have beaucoup thermal energy available for transfer. This would reduce the time that the heat pump would have to run. In the winter, maybe the attic would still have enough excess energy to heat the water more efficiently (at least on sunny days). Or maybe you could use the exhaust of the furnace - which should still contain more thermal energy than the ambient basement air. Of course this source/exhaust would have to be isolated completely from other paths due to the noxious gasses contained in the furnace exhaust. Then *those* ideas led me to another idea: since heat is an enemy of efficient PV generation, why hasn't anyone designed a device/structure that would serve as both an air/water heat exchanger AND a structure to which PV solar panels could be mounted? Obviously made of aluminum, it doesn't have to have fins like a radiator, but rather a series of very thin/shallow but wide compartments through which water would pass, transferring heat from the air behind the PV panels to the water, back down to the storage tank. The frame of the exchanger could mount directly to/through either an existing roof (just like a rack system currently does), or - if for new construction or roof replacement - the decking (like GAF's Decotech or Timberline Solar "integrated" systems). No exposed underside for critters to use as a nest or chew toy. You could plumb them in any combination of series & parallel and monitor the input & output water pressure of each exchanger to detect leaks. Use insulated Pex for connections and transmission to storage tank. You could also employ a larger storage tank and/or store the water at a much higher temperature (by continually circulating water from tank to roof until the highest "safe" temperature is reached). You would then need a mixing valve to mix in a cold water supply to bring the output of the storage tank to the usual safe (~130-150 deg F) level. With this idea you'd have a low profile system that cools the PV panels (making them more efficient) and gives you all the hot water you can use at the same time (for *FREE*). You can even have supplemental gas/electric heat at/near the storage tank for extended stormy times in cold northern climates. I will admit this lends itself more to new construction or roof replacement, but it sure seems to make things a *lot* more efficient...

This seems to be an obvious efficiency gain with a seemingly reasonable increase in expense. Have I missed something here? Did I just give away a big opportunistic idea?

Anyways, for your consideration... My immediate interest is with the on-demand gas WH vs HPWH comparison (& the side issue of running the HPWH in the winter in the basement). The rest is just a lot of "Why hasn't anybody produced something like this?".

Kind of getting OT for this thread, but when NG is cheap, it's hard to beat it. It heats super fast and has great recovery. I had that option but still chose the greener electric HPWH, and would do so again, but I don't need that super quick recovery. You might, and if so, it's a sound reason to go that direction. OTOH, the world is going electric and if you have PV, it makes sense to go that direction.

Tankless has come under fire to a certain degree lately. Plenty of folks out there that have suggested they aren't the cat's meow they were initially thought to be. Research and come to your own option on that topic.

And no, I don't think you've come up with a better mouse trap regarding cooling panels and reusing that heat. People have been working on that one for years. In fact, I just watched the video bellow on this topic a couple of days ago. The solutions tend to have too much complexity, are too costly, installation issues, or have other inherent flaws or hurtles to overcome.

 

[robby]

I was also intirgued by the idea of cooling the panels and using the water for heating but as someone on the forum pointed out, the price of panels is so low that it makes more sense to just add more panels and use the extra power for heating rather than to spend money on elaborate heatsinks.

 

[rhino]

Oh, that’s definitely legit (and smart). I feel a bit better giving my money to a US firm, even if it costs a bit more..

Just remember all the system monitoring data for a Sol-Ark system are sent to a server in China. For remote monitoring you have to sign into that server to view it.

 

[mvonw]

Just remember all the system monitoring data for a Sol-Ark system are sent to a server in China. For remote monitoring you have to sign into that server to view it.

Yes, I’d prefer it not go offshore, but if Xi wants my solar and power usage at my off grid cabin high in the mountains, he can have it. Walk down the street in a major city or airport and you face and identity is logged. Google tracks my movements on my phone, Amazon tracks my purchases. The ship has sailed on this one. I’ll be dead before it might possibly matter.

 

[RayofSunshine]

Kind of getting OT for this thread, but when NG is cheap, it's hard to beat it. It heats super fast and has great recovery. I had that option but still chose the greener electric HPWH, and would do so again, but I don't need that super quick recovery. You might, and if so, it's a sound reason to go that direction. OTOH, the world is going electric and if you have PV, it makes sense to go that direction.

Tankless has come under fire to a certain degree lately. Plenty of folks out there that have suggested they aren't the cat's meow they were initially thought to be. Research and come to your own option on that topic.

And no, I don't think you've come up with a better mouse trap regarding cooling panels and reusing that heat. People have been working on that one for years. In fact, I just watched the video bellow on this topic a couple of days ago. The solutions tend to have too much complexity, are too costly, installation issues, or have other inherent flaws or hurtles to overcome.

Damn!

Yeah, I was stretching the topic, but I figured it had input into my decision on whether or not to wait for availability if the 15K (and hope that Sol-Ark completes the migration of manufacturing to TX and fixes the monitoring & firmware updates from servers in the PRC) and use my entire roof for PV panels (besides switching the WH from gas to electric - or gas/electric hybrid HP, we're going to get a Plug-in EV, and thinking of eventually switching from furnace & AC to hybrid gas/heat pump) OR maybe be able to get away with a 12K (Sol-Ark or other brand) and maybe only the back side of the roof.

I hadn't run into any negative comments on gas tankless in my research (I mean, other than maybe longer wait times for hot water, which can be mitigated with re-circulation or electric under faucet on-demand water heaters). Have any particular references (other than a Web search on "gas tankless hot water heaters problems")?

Thanks for all the input. My two (equally important) main reasons for doing all this are 1) independence from the grid (which will be facing increasing probability of outages from age, stress, weather, hackers, etc), and 2) trying to do our part to help with climate change. If there's a "greener" option (e.g., HPWH), and it doesn't cost *too* much more than cheaper, more environmentally damaging option (e.g., gas burning WH), we'll bite the bullet and go green(er). I can put off the EV and furnace&A/C replacement (they are both up there in age as well) for a while, but I need to make a decision on the water heater, as it impacts the roof replacement & solar panel layout.