Sol-Ark 8/12/15k with Tigo TS4-A-O?

[GregTR]

Sol-Ark can be installed and configured in many different ways. The 12 VDC output on pins 15 & 16 is limited to 100ma. A clean and simple solution is to connect a low current 12VDC relay to those pins and connect the relay contacts to the CCA aux terminals. The CCA can remain powered on continuously. Tigo sells the CCA in a NEMA 3R enclosure that contains a DIN rail. A relay like this can be installed inside the enclosure with the DIN power supply and CCA:

https://www.amazon.com/mxuteuk-JQX-13FL-Indicator-Electromagnetic-Aluminum%EF%BC%8C1/dp/B07QXXM1RV/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=12+volt+dc+relay&qid=1667783930&sr=8-4

Activating the RSD via the button shuts off the inverter output and pins 15 & 16, but does not disconnect the GRID to LOAD which may or may not be the desired intention. Throwing the main service disconnect ahead of the Sol-Ark may or may not shutdown or island the inverter depending upon your configuration.

The purpose of the RSD button is to cut power outpower from the panels on the roof.

The purpose of the main disconnect is to disconnect the PV system from the grid.

I did exactly this setup, thanks to your post! I also added my solar-assistant to a DIN rail mount so it fits in the box nicely.


My CCA is powered from a 15A breaker in my load breaker box that also runs a room's lights so it stays powered as long as there is power to be had either from grid, PV or battery.

If I lose grid, and my battery runs out at night, I am planning to do the exact same thing that @eia2022 is doing, lower the battery cutoff threshold and "jumpstart" the system. I also have a few cars I can pull 12V should I need to run the CCA off of something else other than the battery backup.

The only issue I ran into was that shorting pin 11-12 would only turn off the relay for about 30 seconds then it would turn it back on momentarily for a second or so at times and the Sol-Ark had no indication that the PV was shut down at all or any kind of RSS has happened.

I contacted Sol-Ark thinking it was a possible firmware bug and they identified that my inverter needed a new MCU. I swapped in the new MCU this morning and now if I push the emergency shutdown button I lose all power in the house and my Tigo also shuts down, I also get an F22_Tz_EmergStop_Fault which is the expected behavior.

If your system stays on with pin 11-12 shorted then your RSS is not working properly.

 

[saenns]

Is it correct that a SA inverter without batteries can be stuck in rapid-shutdown during grid power outage until grid power is restored to the CCA? Except as long as PV power is available to the CCA when the grid power outage begins?

E.g.

1. Daytime grid outage. PV power continues
2. Night falls. Neither Grid nor PV power available. CCA and PV shutdown
3. Daytime. PV power cannot resume because CCA is down

 

[GregTR]

SA Inverters are strongly advised to be used with batteries. I am pretty sure that in "no battery" mode there is no PV power when the grid goes down, the inverter simply cannot sink the excess solar power during sudden load shedding (A/C stops running or the microwave heating your meal ends) or provide enough energy with a sudden drop of PV production (clouds suddenly cover the sun).

I am almost certain that island mode without battery is not a supported mode of operation, I had my system without battery for a few days and I think if I cut grid power the entire inverter stopped providing power to the load.

If you have CCA on a Sol-Ark inverter without battery then you're correct, until grid power is restored you will have no PV operation, but as I stated already, that would be the case without rapid shutdown as well so it's not really any different.

No grid = no PV = no electricity for your load if you have no battery.

You can always bootstrap the CCA from a 12V battery, or you can use a generator to produce energy when grid is down.

I don't think the use case of Sol-Ark without battery is significant enough to warrant any further discussion, the very reason to buy a Sol-Ark is to use batteries.

 

[Think About It]

I don't think the use case of Sol-Ark without battery is significant enough to warrant any further discussion, the very reason to buy a Sol-Ark is to use batteries.

If you're not going to use batteries, I would back-feed the output of the Sol-Ark into your load center. Solves your CCA power problem.

When the SA doesn't have any DC, either from the PV or the batteries, the inverter shuts off. And it doesn't even continue to record power being passed through it - which I believe is a design oversight.

 

[GregTR]

If you're not going to use batteries, I would back-feed the output of the Sol-Ark into your load center. Solves your CCA power problem.

When the SA doesn't have any DC, either from the PV or the batteries, the inverter shuts off. And it doesn't even continue to record power being passed through it - which I believe is a design oversight.

The shutdown and bypass of the Sol-Ark without DC input is to save the 90W idle consumption and I also found it disappointing while I was waiting for my batteries to be installed.

 

[tkansara]

Hey guys,

Do the tigo optimizer with sol-ark 15k work as actual optimizers or just as rapid shut down? I had a couple of installers tell me it is better to go with ap smart shutdown since it is cheaper, and that the tigo with sol-ark 15 won't work as optimizer.

I don't have any crazy shading issues. Our roof has ridges so it is not continuous, we will need multiple small strings to be connected. Would combiner boxes be better? The front of home is south east facing.

 

[Think About It]

Tigo makes a module that does only rapid shutdown, and a different module that does RSD and optimizes. (TS4-A-O). They work on different technologies. I installed all TS4-A-O as the price wasn't that much more and I have shading. The TS4-A-O modules log data from each unit. Their software shows current and past power production from each panel along with energy reclaimed from each panel due to optimization. Once up an running their system works flawlessly and provides an invaluable amount of data down to the panel level about it's performance. It's a great component of my system.

My point is since you need RSD, that the Optimizers are well worth the extra money.

 

[GregTR]

^ What they said ^

I have 44 Tigo TS-A-O one on every panel with three TAPs and a CCA. Cost was marginally more than had I gone with Rapid Shutdown controllers/modules alone and I get optimization and panel level monitoring with it which I find are well worth the money.

So far the optimizers reclaimed about 6.5% of otherwise lost energy and I paid about 2% of my total cost to have them added, but even if they weren't profitable the added benefit of panel level monitoring is worth the cost to me.

 

[tkansara]

Ty for the input guys.

 

[Think About It]

I had a couple of installers tell me it is better to go with ap smart shutdown since it is cheaper, and that the tigo with sol-ark 15 won't work as optimizer.

I would not be using those installers. They clearly don't know what they are talking about.

 

[tkansara]

Hey Guys

Sorry if this is a repeat question. The Tigos will need a 15 amp circuit slot. In case of power outage, these will be down. Does this mean that the complete array will be down?
What are my options?

I do have a secondary panel with essentials, which powers furnace/well/sump pump through a generator when started(manual start).

Please let me know your thoughts.

Also is it fine to get a battery at a later date? I am already at a high number for install and parts, so wanted to take it easy. Thoughts?

Regards,
Tanmay

 

[Think About It]

Sorry if this is a repeat question. The Tigos will need a 15 amp circuit slot. In case of power outage, these will be down. Does this mean that the complete array will be down?

It Depends. It you don't have any Solar being produced, and the Grid is down, and you don't have a battery, the you don't have any power. Nothing will work.

If you have just PV and it's enough to power your critical loads, then yes you will have power for the TIgo CCA - it doesn't require much.

Also is it fine to get a battery at a later date? I am already at a high number for install and parts, so wanted to take it easy. Thoughts?

I installed my batteries (2 SOK 100AH Server Rack batteries) about 60 days after I fired up my Sol-Ark. I don't have a net-meter installed (yet) so I can only use whatever power I draw. Any excess production goes to waste. After I added the batteries, I let the PV charge the batteries with excess power after the load is satisfied. (Load First Working Mode). When there is not enough PV, I supplement the Load with the Battery, until the battery reaches 20%, then I use power from the Grid.

The Sol-Ark is really designed for use cases with batteries. That being said it will work fine without any. Be aware that when no PV is being produced and there is no battery, the inverter goes to sleep. The only down side to this that I'm aware of is the inverter stops tracking statistics on the Load and the Grid - something that I think Sol-Ark should address. Also, without a battery you will not be able to automatically start a generator with a 2-wire start interface.

 

[GregTR]

Sol-Ark will not work in a grid-tie configuration without battery when the grid goes down. If there is no grid power there is no PV power without battery. This is by design because without grid there is no ability to cover power surges or power shedding on PV alone.

If you want to have backup PV power when the grid goes down you will need a battery. And if you have a battery along with your PV then you should be able to add a 15A breaker to connect a 12V DC adapter and drive your Tigo CCA from.

 

[daurtanyn]

I recently installed a Sol-Ark 15k with 28 Silfab 370 HC panels, one Tigo CCA, one Tigo TAP and 28 TS4-A-O modules.

We solved the PV Rapid Shutdown integration by simply using a Big Red switch with an integrated dual pole switch.

The Normally Open contacts of one pole of the dual pole switch connects to the Sol-Ark 15K on pins 11 &12.

The Normally Open contacts of the other pole of the dual pole switch connects to the AUX input of the Tigo CCA.

When the Big Red switch is pushed, two contact pairs get closed, one pair for the Sol-Ark and the other pair for the Tigo CCA AUX input.
Tigo PV-Off via AUX Link

We ran 4 wires from the equipment room on my second floor to the Big Red switch outside for the "PV Rapid Shutdown" regulatory requirement.

Separate poles are needed because the closure sense voltage on the Sol-Ark is 12vdc, while the Tigo AUX port uses 3.3vdc.

(The remote relay circuit described earlier in this thread achieves the same goal in a different way.)

 

[Think About It]

I recently installed a Sol-Ark 15k with 28 Silfab 370 HC panels, one Tigo CCA, one Tigo TAP and 28 TS4-A-O modules.

We solved the PV Rapid Shutdown integration by simply using a Big Red switch with an integrated dual pole switch.

The Normally Open contacts of one pole of the dual pole switch connects to the Sol-Ark 15K on pins 11 &12.

The Normally Open contacts of the other pole of the dual pole switch connects to the AUX input of the Tigo CCA.

When the Big Red switch is pushed, two contact pairs get closed, one pair for the Sol-Ark and the other pair for the Tigo CCA AUX input.
Tigo PV-Off via AUX Link

We ran 4 wires from the equipment room on my second floor to the Big Red switch outside for the "PV Rapid Shutdown" regulatory requirement.

Separate poles are needed because the closure sense voltage on the Sol-Ark is 12vdc, while the Tigo AUX port uses 3.3vdc.

(The remote relay circuit described earlier in this thread achieves the same goal in a different way.)

I like your description of the "Big Red Switch"

 

[lasuti]

I recently installed a Sol-Ark 15k with 28 Silfab 370 HC panels, one Tigo CCA, one Tigo TAP and 28 TS4-A-O modules.

We solved the PV Rapid Shutdown integration by simply using a Big Red switch with an integrated dual pole switch.

The Normally Open contacts of one pole of the dual pole switch connects to the Sol-Ark 15K on pins 11 &12.

The Normally Open contacts of the other pole of the dual pole switch connects to the AUX input of the Tigo CCA.

When the Big Red switch is pushed, two contact pairs get closed, one pair for the Sol-Ark and the other pair for the Tigo CCA AUX input.
Tigo PV-Off via AUX Link

We ran 4 wires from the equipment room on my second floor to the Big Red switch outside for the "PV Rapid Shutdown" regulatory requirement.

Separate poles are needed because the closure sense voltage on the Sol-Ark is 12vdc, while the Tigo AUX port uses 3.3vdc.

(The remote relay circuit described earlier in this thread achieves the same goal in a different way.)

Do you have a link to the switch you used? I'm looking to do the same thing.

 

[daurtanyn]

I used a commercial button assembly from Eaton.

Button: Eaton 10250T5B62-1-POP
Contact Block with two NO contacts: Eaton 10250T2
Outdoor enclosure for button: Eaton 10250TN11

(Installed image attached)

 

[Restlesseye]

Need some help regarding Tigo CCA and connecting it to my Sol-Ark 12k.

As it stands right now, my CCA is connected to my TAP through the GATEWAY, which in turn, is wirelessly communicating to all of my T4-A-S-O units. Per my Tigo app on my cell phone, it looks like everything is running perfectly, and I'm getting information from my panels.

The question I have is, do I need to connect my CCA to my Sol-Ark via the RS485-1, or should I just leave it alone? Is there any need to connect the CCA directly to the Sol-Ark?

Thanks in advance.

PS. I'm being lazy, my CCA is connected to the router in my house, and the TAP is directly connected to my CCA. If it serves no purpose, I don't want to run another 100 feet of wire to connect my CCA to Sol-Ark.

 

[Ampster]

How does it shut down the SolArk if that is required?

 

[2TrevorJ]

There's no reason to tie the CCA to your Sol-Ark via RS485. They don't need to communicate to operate optimally.

Now...as Ampster said, you may want to use the Sol-Ark's rapid shutdown to signal the CCA to shutdown the array at the same time via the Aux input on the CCA. Details are earlier in this thread.

 

[Ampster]

Now...as Ampster said, you may want to use the Sol-Ark's rapid shutdown to signal the CCA to shutdown the array at the same time via the Aux input on the CCA. Details are earlier in this thread.

Actually the thing I was implying was shutting down the SolArk for the safety of first responders. If they pull the meter or shut off the main service disconnect the SolArk will still power the critical loads panel as if there was a power outage. There could be power to the roof because the micros are fed by the SolArk and there definitely would be live circuits in the home.

 

[2TrevorJ]

Apologies but the Tigo are not microinverters and they aren't fed by or dependent on power/signal from an inverter. They are their own system but you're right in that they'll stay energized (DC) and keep on operating unless signaled to shut down.

 

[Ampster]

Apologies but the Tigo are not microinverters

No apology needed, I was referring to the micros on my roof that could be fed from my SolArk when power is disconnected to my house by first responders. Is there an issue that your SolArk could be still putting out power from the batteries even though the solar panels are shut down by the Tigos?

 

[2TrevorJ]

Is there an issue that your SolArk could be still putting out power from the batteries even though the solar panels are shut down by the Tigos?

Absolutely. If you wire the rapid shut down button to the Tigo CCA's AUX it would only shut down the array but the Sol-Ark will keep on truckin' on battery.

I think we're both saying the same thing. Gotta ensure the entire system shuts down when you smack the button...not just part of the system.

 

[tve]

I'm a little puzzled about the rapid shutdown... I have a 15k with Tigo CCA, in California. Everything is mounted outside the house, so the SA is readily available. Questions:
- what does the "PV disconnect switch" on the left side of the Sol-Ark actually do? Just disconnect the PV input power? Does that actually shut down the PV panels in terms of getting the output voltage down?
- what happens in terms of PV voltage if the SA is turned off using the ON/OFF button on the outside?
- if neither of these two switches causes the PV voltage to be shut down do I need an explicit shutdown signal to the CCA and what's the easiest way to accomplish that?

(This is not a DIY install, I'm just checking that the installer crossed all the t's and dotted all the i's...)