Optimisers for Sol-Ark other than Tigo?

[themizz]

I'm wondering if there are other optimsers on the market that would be compatible with a Sol-Ark as I am frustrated with my Tigo TS4-A-O's.

Main complaints:

- Their cloud service is not reliable and only has 15 minute resolution without paying extra (and is closed source, can't locally monitor)
- On the roof uses Zigbee wireless so TAP can communicate with individual optimisers and is also not a reliable connection

I have shaded panels so yes I believe I need optimzers vs just a RSD device like an APsmart RSD and I also like the monitoring feature to see what each panel is doing.

I would prefer a system that uses PLC for communication instead of wireless.

Anything out there on the market?

 

[DIYrich]

Since it is not urgent, wait for sol-ark to release theirs.

 

[Lt.Dan]

I see this thread pop up once a mont for a couple years now.

Not to be rude, but have you tried searching for it?

 

[zanydroid]

I don't think anything new is on the horizon other than the Sol-Ark one. Which has been delayed, and you probably don't want to be the first victim.

I know I'm far from a FOSS absolutist, but honestly 15 min resolution is comparable to what you get elsewhere with other cloud-hosted solutions. And in a power conversion context like this OSS / local monitoring is not as important as reliable conversion. Now if I needed CONTROL for something critical, then sure I would want it local rather than cloud.

For the TAP issue, you can increase density of taps to brute force past it.

You can consider swapping to microinverters on the shaded strings and AC coupling them. I'm not familiar with a PLC only + local monitoring only combo. Hoymiles has local monitoring + control BUT is either 2.4G or sub-1G. No PLC.

 

[themizz]

@Lt.Dan yes I've definitely searched. I just find it hard to believe that there's no other optimizer solutions on the market.

@zanydroid I'm less concerned about the local monitoring aspect and also about the 15 minute resolution than I am with the fact that the optimizers rely on a wireless keep alive signal.

 

[zanydroid]

I just find it hard to believe that there's no other optimizer solutions on the market.

Optimizers are just not very well documented / good diversity of options. My headcanon is that there is some combination of difficult product/market fit into the string inverter ecosystem. So until I see some change I tell myself that microinverters are de facto the superior architecture until someone comes up with a business model or technical innovation.

EDIT: For instance, it's possible that off-grid AC coupling with microinverters / Grid tie inverters ends up being too flaky at scale / with a large diversity of equipment. But, there is such a large installed base interested in making this work, that manufacturers will probably try to power through it. And only new installs would benefit from better optimizers anyway

The alternative of wishing with bated breath for a change to the game just doesn't make sense to me. The market is what it is, from a consumer perspective. As a manufacturer or installer, sure, it's worth spending time looking at bets.

@zanydroid I'm less concerned about the local monitoring aspect and also about the 15 minute resolution than I am with the fact that the optimizers rely on a wireless keep alive signal.

Fair enough.

Note that PLC can have signal integrity issues too, which can mess up commissioning. If you want to study this I believe the biggest PLC deployments by number of panels out in the wild (especially when limiting to public feedback on reddit / other mundane forums, rather than the private clubby discussions within the industry) are Enphase microinverters.

Though I don't know if someone has compared the long term stability of PLC vs wireless after stability has been addressed.

 

[themizz]

Optimizers are just not very well documented / good diversity of options. My headcanon is that there is some combination of difficult product/market fit into the string inverter ecosystem. So until I see some change I tell myself that microinverters are de facto the superior architecture until someone comes up with a business model or technical innovation.

EDIT: For instance, it's possible that off-grid AC coupling with microinverters / Grid tie inverters ends up being too flaky at scale / with a large diversity of equipment. But, there is such a large installed base interested in making this work, that manufacturers will probably try to power through it. And only new installs would benefit from better optimizers anyway

The alternative of wishing with bated breath for a change to the game just doesn't make sense to me. The market is what it is, from a consumer perspective. As a manufacturer or installer, sure, it's worth spending time looking at bets.


Fair enough.

Note that PLC can have signal integrity issues too, which can mess up commissioning. If you want to study this I believe the biggest PLC deployments by number of panels out in the wild (especially when limiting to public feedback on reddit / other mundane forums, rather than the private clubby discussions within the industry) are Enphase microinverters.

Though I don't know if someone has compared the long term stability of PLC vs wireless after stability has been addressed.

I'm actually exploring getting into the solar install game, because I love this stuff and after interviewing companies in my area (and deciding to DIY), they are almost universally not well versed in the tech or the pricing is just super bloated.

So yes, I'm also looking at the Tigos from the perspective of an installer. Would I trust these on someone else's house and not be long term service headaches?

 

[zanydroid]

So yes, I'm also looking at the Tigos from the perspective of an installer. Would I trust these on someone else's house and not be long term service headaches?

There are some blog posts from Australia from (MC electric or something like that) covering this, which you've probably seen already. However that's just one data point. You probably need to get entry into some solar installer cabal forum to get better data.

 

[SenileOldGit]

themizz - you say you have shaded panels, have you tried them without the optimisers? I have shade on my panels during the Winter months (neighbours three houses down, to the South of my panels, have three huge trees in their garden), and I still get decent outputs from my 12kW of panels during the Winter. I have severe doubts that any optimisers actually improve output. Your panels' bypass diodes probably do the best job possible already.

 

[themizz]

themizz - you say you have shaded panels, have you tried them without the optimisers? I have shade on my panels during the Winter months (neighbours three houses down, to the South of my panels, have three huge trees in their garden), and I still get decent outputs from my 12kW of panels during the Winter. I have severe doubts that any optimisers actually improve output. Your panels' bypass diodes probably do the best job possible already.

I need them for RSD and I like the monitoring. The delta between the optimiser version and the RSD only version was pretty small so I went for it. You may be correct, but I'm assuming that they aren't making things WORSE. I hope I am not wrong.

 

[GregTR]

I've had Tigos for a bit over a year and they have been largely reliable. I have experienced one bad wiring to a TAP unit that had to be fixed and the data that is logged to Tigo (I pay for the premium subscription) seems largely fine.

I seldom look at the Tigo data, I occasionally check to make sure my panels are all producing as expected, comparing YoY performance of the panels.

I use Solar Assistant for actual logging in Home Assistant via MQQT and that works really well. I had more issues with solar-assistant and crappy WiFi/dropouts than I did with Tigo TAP units losing comms. I just ran a wired network to solar-assistant and now hoping that will resolve my last remaining logging issues.

The subscription cost for Tigo is marginal, I think they should/could build it into the price of the unit but in the grand scheme of things it's not significant.

The cost you're looking at replacing Tigos will likely outweigh 10+ years of subscription fees.

 

[Lt.Dan]

I've had Tigos for a bit over a year and they have been largely reliable. I have experienced one bad wiring to a TAP unit that had to be fixed and the data that is logged to Tigo (I pay for the premium subscription) seems largely fine.

I seldom look at the Tigo data, I occasionally check to make sure my panels are all producing as expected, comparing YoY performance of the panels.

I use Solar Assistant for actual logging in Home Assistant via MQQT and that works really well. I had more issues with solar-assistant and crappy WiFi/dropouts than I did with Tigo TAP units losing comms. I just ran a wired network to solar-assistant and now hoping that will resolve my last remaining logging issues.

The subscription cost for Tigo is marginal, I think they should/could build it into the price of the unit but in the grand scheme of things it's not significant.

The cost you're looking at replacing Tigos will likely outweigh 10+ years of subscription fees.

I am the same, except I dont pay the premium subscription. I didn't even know they had it lol.

I originally got them because I liked the thought of monitoring each panel, but to be honest I haven't logged into the monitoring website in probably a year.

 

[teal95]

I didn't know I was supposed to map where each serial number went so while I have a rough layout I have no clue which is which. I just randomly assigned them when I did the layout drawing. And while I found the serial numbers for 40 of my 42 their system could only come up with 1 of the missing so I still don't have data from the last one.

 

[Oldphile]

I'm viewing TIGO monitoring to try and figure out why I'm getting arc faults. I'm seeing a strange phenomenon. 5 minutes before the Sol-Ark reports an arc fault the optimizers stop reporting data. I have 1 minute data resolution with the premium monitoring service..

Apparently the default mode for "arc fault" is OFF, which may explain why few people are experiencing this problem. If you have a Sol-Ark with PV panels on the roof, I encourage you to turn on "arc fault". The NEC requires it.

 

[Lt.Dan]

My Arc Fault is on, using the Tigo optimizers, no issues here. What would trip the Arc Fault?

 

[Oldphile]

What would trip the Arc Fault?

Don't know. I wanted to look at the data preceding the event, but there is no data. 5 minute resolution of Sol-Ark data is no help.

 

[Oldphile]

My Arc Fault is on, using the Tigo optimizers, no issues here.

Do you have any parallel strings on a single MPPT? I do and I'm wondering if that's the issue.

 

[Lt.Dan]

Do you have any parallel strings on a single MPPT? I do and I'm wondering if that's the issue.

Yes, I'm running an 11S-2P on 2x separate strings for a total of 44 panels.

 

[GregTR]

Do you have any parallel strings on a single MPPT? I do and I'm wondering if that's the issue.

I have 8s2p on two of my MPPTs and 6s2p on the third one. I had arc fault tripped with the Tigos and I disabled it in the Sol-Ark.

 

[themizz]

Has anyone brought this issue to Sol-Ark's attention?