Do Tigo TS4-A-O optimisers actually work?

[SenileOldGit]

I have been looking into Tigo TS4-A-0 optimisers, because during the Winter months my 12kW array has a lot of shadows as two of my neighbours to the South of my garden each have two huge trees in their gardens, two of which are evergreens, so there is a lot of shade across my panels in December and January. I am trying to find a simple thing: somebody who originally didn't have any optimisers on their sometimes shaded array, but who then bought Tigo optimisers and put them on, and measured the difference. That's it - a before and after. But I can't find anything on the internet.

 

[MisterSandals]

You might get a better or applicable answer if you describe how your array is configure. I’m guess not all in series. Big array, to a single MPPT?

 

[SenileOldGit]

I have two 6kW arrays, with two 5kW inverters. Not really relevant - I'm looking for ANY scientific test that shows that Tigo optimisers work. (Or indeed, any optimisers.) Since I haven't found one yet, I presume they don't actually work.

 

[timselectric]

They help some, in partial shading issues.
But, better panel placement is the better option.

 

[MajicDiver]

better panel placement is the better option

Or more panels in parallel if space allows

 

[Lt.Dan]

They help some, in partial shading issues.
But, better panel placement is the better option.

This is 100% true.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't have purchased my Tigo system with the CCA, if RSD wasn't a requirement in my area. The optimization was just a bonus.

 

[Siamac]

I just watched the videos on their website. Seems pretty gimmicky

 

[Quattrohead]

It allows the unshaded panels to continue to produce full output without taking down the whole string, but I just saw the other day there is a 25% limit on what they can do before they also start limiting output.

 

[timselectric]

If a single panel is shaded enough, It's built-in bypass diodes do the same thing as an optimizer. The optimizer just has the ability to help in lower amounts of shading. It's a variable bypass. (In the simplest terms)

 

[Quattrohead]

It's built-in bypass diodes do the same thing as an optimizer.

That's what they all say but in practice I am not really seeing that happen with my panels. A shadow kills the string fairly quickly.

 

[Quattrohead]

It's a variable bypass. (In the simplest terms)

I like it ?

 

[SenileOldGit]

It allows the unshaded panels to continue to produce full output without taking down the whole string, but I just saw the other day there is a 25% limit on what they can do before they also start limiting output.

Do you mean "without the shaded panels taking down the whole string", since I presume unshaded panels are not going to "take down a whole string"? Bypass diodes mean that no panels are going to take down a whole string...

 

[SenileOldGit]

That's what they all say but in practice I am not really seeing that happen with my panels. A shadow kills the string fairly quickly.

What sort of panels do you have, how many in a string, and what sort of inverters? A shadow should not kill your string, we aren't living in the dark ages any more, all solar panels have bypass diodes now...

Back to my question - is there not a single video proving that any optimisers actually work?

 

[SenileOldGit]

If a single panel is shaded enough. It's built-in bypass diodes do the same thing as an optimizer. The optimizer just has the ability to help in lower amounts of shading. It's a variable bypass. (In the simplest terms)

Hi Tim, you should change that first full stop to a comma, it makes the meaning of what you said completely different, as it is...

 

[timselectric]

That's what they all say but in practice I am not really seeing that happen with my panels. A shadow kills the string fairly quickly.

You might have some bad bypass diodes.
This time of year, I get a lot of shading.
Mine are working as expected.
My MPPT adjusts on the fly, very quickly.

 

[Oldphile]

I have 6S2P on a single MPPT. The 6 panels near the ridge dominate the lower 6. IMO the optimizers don't help parallel strings. TIGO describes the 25% rule in terms of different number of panels in parallel strings, but the same happens when the panels are shaded.

I need to make a case with my installer and have them run additional wires to an unused MPPT.

Edit; B1 to B6 parallel with B7 to B12 This is a snapshot of power.

 

[Lt.Dan]

That's what they all say but in practice I am not really seeing that happen with my panels. A shadow kills the string fairly quickly.

I would look into that. I have 1 panel that is shaded by an eave of my roof for 85% of the day. Its the only panel that outputs almost nothing, while the other 10 in the series string (11s total) are perfect.

The optimizer definitely works for me.

 

[AZ Solar Junkie]

I would look into that. I have 1 panel that is shaded by an eave of my roof for 85% of the day. Its the only panel that outputs almost nothing, while the other 10 in the series string (11s total) are perfect.

The optimizer definitely works for me.

I suspect some people are fighting with Tigo’s with the firmware issue that apparently can only be resolved if you connect them with a TAP and CCA.

 

[Quattrohead]

I am talking about four different types of panels without any optimizers, I personally am not seeing the value of bypass diodes but I don't know why and I haven't really looked into it.

 

[AZ Solar Junkie]

I am talking about four different types of panels without any optimizers, I personally am not seeing the value of bypass diodes but I don't know why and I haven't really looked into it.

This video is the best I’ve found so far on the positives and negatives of optimizers and how they work. Very good overview -

 

[Quattrohead]

My panels are lashed up around my backyard at the moment so it is a big problem but when we move to the final house they will be up on the roof where they will basically get sun from sunrise till sunset on the west, south and east roofs so it is not a problem I need to investigate, lucky me ?

 

[Dr.Jekyll]

This video is the best I’ve found so far on the positives and negatives of optimizers and how they work. Very good overview -

Huh. Very interesting.
He presents optimizers as simply smart bypasses.

But I think most are actually MPPT trackers -- ie: DC-DC converters that are trying to maximize power output of the panel.
Hypothetically, although all the panels in the string need to have the same input and output current, the current flowing through each panel can be whatever results in peak power for that panel.

 

[2TrevorJ]

 

[Sigunas]

I have two 6kW arrays, with two 5kW inverters. Not really relevant - I'm looking for ANY scientific test that shows that Tigo optimisers work. (Or indeed, any optimisers.) Since I haven't found one yet, I presume they don't actually work.

Don't know how much Tigo optimizers would help. In my case huawei optimizers with huawei inverter definitely work when bypass diodes not so much: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/when-did-bypass-diodes-become-common.70855/post-898256
I don't have place for more panels, so that's not an option for me.

 

[ElectricIslander]

The Tigo web page is a hot mess of difficult to understand product matrices and product model options.

Is it correct that only the fire safety / rapid shutoff modules work with the Schneider system or do the combined models with optimizer function also work with Schneider gear?

That said, I've heard elsewhere and in Gary's videos that the Tigo rapid shutdown adds so many failure modes that it's not worth the optimizer/monitoring benefits on rooftop systems if not required by local code.