diy solar

diy solar

Sol-Ark 8/12/15k with Tigo TS4-A-O?

y0bailey said:
I am heading the DIY route and ditching my SolarEdge optimizers so I can run an EG4 inverter. I do have shading and panels on different roof pitches, so I do think I need at least some optimization.

Did you have any issues running the TS4-A-O's "blind" as stand-alone optimizers? Did you notice huge improvements after getting them properly installed with the CCA/TAP?

They make it sound scary on the TIGO website: https://support.tigoenergy.com/hc/en-us/articles/4770355167635-TS4-Systems-Blind-Deployment


Any info you have will be greatly appreciated! I never saw your official verdict after getting things properly configured.
Click to expand...
Did you figure anything out on running blind?

I’m debating running Two strings of seven, East to mppt 1

Two strings of seven, west to mppt 2

And one string of six on the East roof, with one string of six on the West roof to mppt 3

I need RSD, but I’m not sure I want to deal with the communications and would consider “blind”.

The reason for this layout is to avoid having to ground mount the third mppt…i can fit 20 panels on each side of the roof. In this configuration, I can run a west string and an East string on the third mppt with 12 panels. It would not be quite as beneficial as the mppt being filled with two south facing strings of seven…but it would save a lot of headaches being able to have all panels roof mounted.

I already have the Tigo Ts4 A-F RSD for all panels…I’d just be swapping to the Tigo TS4 A-O for the 12 that would be split between East-west

Northern Wind & Sun suggested microinverters & ac coupling, but I’m looking to avoid ac coupling, to leave it easier for generator install. (100% off grid single Sol-ark 15k, which will be paralleled down the line)

Others have pointed out the issue with petty local criminals & outside mounted RSD…but I’d add that I also don’t want my system to be able to be remotely shut down. So, I’ll be exploring ways to limit this as well.

It may seem tinfoily to many, but I’ve had my identity stolen (via Sim-swap). It really makes one think about all the available ways bad actors can exploit you.

This seems like such a simple problem to solve, especially on a 3:12 (15 degree) roof, but East-West configuration brings challenges I didn’t initially plan for.

Also, regarding Tigo TS4 A-F versus Tigo A-O, someone mentioned they are different technologies? Does that mean I could not use the A-F with the A-O on the same central RSD?
 
Dustoff said:
Did you figure anything out on running blind?

I’m debating running Two strings of seven, East to mppt 1

Two strings of seven, west to mppt 2

And one string of six on the East roof, with one string of six on the West roof to mppt 3

I need RSD, but I’m not sure I want to deal with the communications and would consider “blind”.

The reason for this layout is to avoid having to ground mount the third mppt…i can fit 20 panels on each side of the roof. In this configuration, I can run a west string and an East string on the third mppt with 12 panels. It would not be quite as beneficial as the mppt being filled with two south facing strings of seven…but it would save a lot of headaches being able to have all panels roof mounted.

I already have the Tigo Ts4 A-F RSD for all panels…I’d just be swapping to the Tigo TS4 A-O for the 12 that would be split between East-west

Northern Wind & Sun suggested microinverters & ac coupling, but I’m looking to avoid ac coupling, to leave it easier for generator install. (100% off grid single Sol-ark 15k, which will be paralleled down the line)

Others have pointed out the issue with petty local criminals & outside mounted RSD…but I’d add that I also don’t want my system to be able to be remotely shut down. So, I’ll be exploring ways to limit this as well.

It may seem tinfoily to many, but I’ve had my identity stolen (via Sim-swap). It really makes one think about all the available ways bad actors can exploit you.

This seems like such a simple problem to solve, especially on a 3:12 (15 degree) roof, but East-West configuration brings challenges I didn’t initially plan for.

Also, regarding Tigo TS4 A-F versus Tigo A-O, someone mentioned they are different technologies? Does that mean I could not use the A-F with the A-O on the same central RSD?
Click to expand...
If you don't have any shading issues, you should be ok with just east and west strings in parallel without optimizers.

If you deploy the TS4-A-O without the TAP/CCA you won't get rapid shutdown.

The TS4-A-F/2F use power line communications, while the TS4-A-O/S/M use RF communications using the TAP and CCA. If you wanted to use both in the same system you would need both a power line comm RSD transmitter, and TAP/CCA for complete rapid shutdown, both could be connected to the same switch to make it function as one system.
 
I’m not 100% sure but I suspect you can lock RSD in similar ways to locking a main shutoff. Hopefully someone knows. The fire dept would just cut the lock.

With how complicated and “weird” yet unspecified algorithms optimizers are, I’m not sure why one would want to run blind (on top of the downsides mentioned above). You’re basically running double blind in my book. Don’t know what the algorithm is because TIGO doesn’t tell you, can’t see what the effect is, and don’t get the global optimization
 
pvgirl said:
If you don't have any shading issues, you should be ok with just east and west strings in parallel without optimizers.

If you deploy the TS4-A-O without the TAP/CCA you won't get rapid shutdown.

The TS4-A-F/2F use power line communications, while the TS4-A-O/S/M use RF communications using the TAP and CCA. If you wanted to use both in the same system you would need both a power line comm RSD transmitter, and TAP/CCA for complete rapid shutdown, both could be connected to the same switch to make it function as one system.
Click to expand...
I see. Thank you.

It would seem, for all the extra hassle/cost, it makes sense just to take a minor loss on efficiency with those 12, in order to avoid all the other headaches.
 
Would you technically still comply with rapid shutdown if there is no CCA/TAP, TS-F bracket TS-O in the string, and there are only 1-2 consecutive TS-O panels, and the first and last in string are TS-F?
 
TIGO makes 3 different TS4 MLPE that work with the CCA and TAP
Optimization + Monitoring + RSD
Monitoring + RSD
Monitoring only
I'm sure you can mix and match.
 
Oldphile said:
TIGO makes 3 different TS4 MLPE that work with the CCA and TAP
Optimization + Monitoring + RSD
Monitoring + RSD
Monitoring only
I'm sure you can mix and match.
Click to expand...
Right but the post above was from someone that already had the PLC ones only + matching transmitter. So the upgrade cost for a handful of TS-O was a lot higher per panel unless deployed in blind mode.

For a new system once you pay the cost of CCA/TAP you probably might as well go all the way.
 
Oldphile said:
TIGO makes 3 different TS4 MLPE that work with the CCA and TAP
Optimization + Monitoring + RSD
Monitoring + RSD
Monitoring only
I'm sure you can mix and match.
Click to expand...
Yeah, after posting this reply, I ended up finding the breakdown for Tigo equipment at the bottom of this article: https://www.renvu.com/Tigo-MLPE-Selection-Which-Tigo-MLPE-Do-You-Need

Afterward, I’d also found information on Sol-Ark’s optimizers…however, I think @pvgirl influenced my thinking about this…for the amount of additional hassle & cost, it’s not worth bothering with any of these solutions. I’ll stick with meeting the RSD requirements, with my current equipment, and split the third string across East-west.

I’ll still be at 15,800 watts, with this configuration, but I’ll be able to have it all on my roof. Assuming I stay above 12k production, I should meet any possible demands until my house is built - at which point, I’ll parallel the second one with more panels.
 
Quattrohead said:
No.
Click to expand...
Ah right I just did the math correctly. RSD does not open the circuit, it drops the panels to 1V. So the panels not on RSD will still output VOC, and in general that will exceed 30V total.

If one can find a RSD that opens the circuit then it would work. That would be easier to do on a wireless one. I don't know of an RSD type that works this way, so this is pure theory crafting. If there was one then you could use RSD that open the circuit at the first and last of the chain, then you can use standard RSD (1V standby) and omit from 1-2 panels in the chain (since you are allowed <80V VOC within the array).

If you use the open circuit type RSD within the array then you need one at start and end of the array, and then one every third panel if panels have VOC < 40V, and every other panel for VOC > 40V

I guess the main place this theoretical lifehack wins is if you want to use TIGOs in blind mode and save $500 on the TAP/CCA.
 
Last edited:
Restlesseye said:
Need some help regarding Tigo CCA and connecting it to my Sol-Ark 12k.

As it stands right now, my CCA is connected to my TAP through the GATEWAY, which in turn, is wirelessly communicating to all of my T4-A-S-O units. Per my Tigo app on my cell phone, it looks like everything is running perfectly, and I'm getting information from my panels.

The question I have is, do I need to connect my CCA to my Sol-Ark via the RS485-1, or should I just leave it alone? Is there any need to connect the CCA directly to the Sol-Ark?

Thanks in advance.

PS. I'm being lazy, my CCA is connected to the router in my house, and the TAP is directly connected to my CCA. If it serves no purpose, I don't want to run another 100 feet of wire to connect my CCA to Sol-Ark.


View attachment 143914
Click to expand...
What kind of wire did you use to wire your CCA to your TAP? Did you use aa RS485 rated cable, ethernet or something different?
Thanks!
 
Lets say your installer didnt install a CCA.
Does the TS4-A-O come set to "ON" out of the box and not normally need a constant "keep-alive" signal for your PV to remain hot?
 
zanydroid said:
Have you looked at all of the Tigo manuals about blind deployment?
Click to expand...

The sole documentation I have found on Blind Deployment is:

"Blind Deployment is defined as any arrangement of TS4 MLPE units being used WITHOUT monitoring enabled (.i.e., no communication via CCA or TAP):
mceclip0.png

Albeit, this type of deployment can function for an undetermined amount of time, it offers no visibility into optimization, performance, or quality of system. It also excludes the system from the complete Warranty eligibility or coverage, as the system cannot be remotely diagnosed for troubleshot, without a TAP (Tigo Access Point) and network connected CCA (Cloud Connect Advance).

This deployment method offers:
  • Blind optimization via PIV (Predictive IV curve technology)
  • Reduced Warranty Coverage"
...so what brought me to this point is the "can function for an undetermined amount of time" aspect, wherein I suspect my installer cut corners, didnt complete the installation, and the TS4-A-O (which comes from the factory in a default "ON" mode) will work -- until it doesnt.
 
If the installer did not finish installing the system / left out components that should have been installed per the line diagram you can pursue the remedies available in your state. In mine it's a formal complaint to licensing board then using small claims court. Or going to arbitration if available.

I'm not sure we can find more information than you on this problem solving approach. Maybe if you add more to this thread, or create a new post, with a big picture view of what you have installed, we can suggest other solutions.

If I owned the system I would go the route of figuring out how to install CCA/TAP and in parallel recovering remedy. Because I'm guessing you've spent 4-8 hours and not productively found actionable stuff from the scarce information available about blind deployment.
 
(forwarded)

Hello,

The TS4-A-O has many functionalities, for purely optimization it ships in the on position and does not need any other devices or internet to optimize the system. This is what we call blind deployment and it will bring the warranty down to 5 years. The recommended deployment is full deployment which implements a CCA and TAP kit. The CCA or cloud connect advanced is the device that utilizes the cloud and will require an internet connection to give you access to the monitoring software. The TAP is the Tigo access point and that is the device that communicates with the TS4-A-O wirelessly and will transmit data to the CCA. The TAP is the device that is responsible for the rapid shut down and without it the modules do not know when to shut down during a rapid shutdown activation. So, to answer your question it depends what you need from the system. Without power and without internet you won't be able to monitor the system. The optimizer ships in the on position and will optimize out of the box. If the CCA and TAP don't have power then they can't perform the rapid shutdown procedure if that is a requirement for the system. Best case would be to have everything for a full deployment and have the CCA and TAP on the protected panel so during an outage the CCA and TAP would still be powered on.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Wishing you sunny days.
Alexander Warner
Sales Engineer, Tigo Energy
alexander.warner@tigoenergy.com
408-402-0802 ext. 4
 
Wanted to post a follow-up to my original question, now that everything is in and working.

First, thanks for all the good feedback - helped me a lot in my planning and building.

Second, we ended up not directly connecting the TIGO-CCA to the SolArk - instead we used a double pole switch (see attached) to have the switch be the shutdown trigger, not the Tigo. In the end I like it this way, since it allows me to shut down the solar (if needed) without triggering the Sol-Ark shutting down.


1702585601582.png


The TS4-A-O's are working beautifully, doing a great job of keeping the voltage levels high, as the single tall shadow of the ONE tree moves across my panels as the day progresses. :)

a great combination of technology, Sol-Ark and Tigo. 10/10 would do it again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

T
Optimisers for Sol-Ark other than Tigo?
2
Replies
37
Views
1K
Oldphile
Oldphile
D
Tigo TS4-A-2F causing 'late start' on cold mornings ?
Replies
0
Views
241
dtbaker61
D
Oldphile
Sol-Ark 15K dropping PV
2
Replies
25
Views
848
Quattrohead
Quattrohead
M
Optimizers per MPPT or string on Sol-Ark
2
Replies
21
Views
1K
jmacdonald077
J
V
Unable to get lock current in a single array - Solark 15 with Tigo TS4 Optimizers
Replies
8
Views
391
JBoffgrid2022
JBoffgrid2022
Back
Top