Sol-ark - eating their own dog food?

[Llaves]

The generator start control is handled by an independent system (runs on a PLC)

If you're willing to go with an external device but want a more turnkey solution, the Victron 700 series monitors can be used to start/stop a generator. From my reading of the manual (I don't have one), you can program the both the start and stop SoC. It does not appear to offer the "run for fixed time" of the PLC solution, and switching between "run to %" vs. "run to full" would require resetting parameters.

 

[629658]

I can tell you my gen will start in a grid outage and I believe I have my SA15 operating the way you describe. Night on battery as sun comes up PV ramps up charging batteries but also covers my loads until batteries are full then it’s grid sell the excess. Reverse process in the evening/night. I do grid charge in the early AM usually when rates are low. I have gen charge unchecked at the moment but usually both gen charge and grid charge boxes are all checked for all time periods.

 

[cm119]

Item #3) in my list, battery charging from grid. This happens in the morning when the PV comes on. Instead of allocating then PV power to the load, the inverter is using the PV power (DC) to charge the batteries (DC), and using grid power to power the loads.

The inverter should invert the power UNTIL it meets the full load requirements, then it is supposed to use additional power to charge the batteries. It will eventually do this later in the day.

For this one, it seems like your TOU setting at 7-8am might be trying to charge batteries. Have you tried to configure a 'slow ramp', i.e. at 8am leave the TOU battery low, like 20% or whatever your minimum is. Then at 10am increase it to 40%, etc, until you have it up to 100% by 3pm or whatever. That way maybe it will give the priority for PV to loads, rather than charging battery, as you aren't telling it you need all that battery charge right away. Posting your settings might help us understand also.

 

[629658]

As for revenue grade CTs no one has them in any AIO that I know of and this has been a requirement for the 9 years I have owned solar even back in my SMA days. I solved this requirement by simply buying and mounting my own separate meter base and meter next to my inverter. Sent a picture and no one has ever looked at it since but it was there. I was required to install it for SREC payments now that those are gone it’s gone too

 

[cm119]

Item #4) in my list is that the Inverter occasionally uses the grid instead of the battery. This usually happens right after my batteries reach full charge - around 1:30. The batteries get to 100%, the inverter stops drawing power from the PV, hence the sharp drop off. Then the load increases and the system draws from the grid instead of the ramping up PV draw or drawing from the battery. Clearly a bug.

On this one, when your TOU setting says 'Batt 100%', that means 'charge the battery to 100% and leave it there', i.e. it will not discharge any battery. If you are wanting the use battery to supplement PV power, you would have to keep that number lower, like 80% or whatever, so it knows it can use 20% battery power to cover loads (assuming you have at least one set point that does get the battery up to 100% full charge).

As for the part where it is not increasing PV to cover the loads, that does sound like a bug, of course you would want PV to run at full power to cover loads.

 

[Think About It]

Is this so one cannot arbitrage the electric rates using batteries? As in charge at cheap rates late at night and sell back using batteries during the expensive rates during the day?

In NJ I don't think so. The net-metering is done by the power utility and the SRECs are administered by the State government. You could store your power in batteries and sell it back at anytime. The state gives you your SRECs based on Solar power produced. I don't think they really care what you do with your produced power.

 

[Think About It]

On this one, when your TOU setting says 'Batt 100%', that means 'charge the battery to 100% and leave it there', i.e. it will not discharge any battery. If you are wanting the use battery to supplement PV power, you would have to keep that number lower, like 80% or whatever, so it knows it can use 20% battery power to cover loads (assuming you have at least one set point that does get the battery up to 100% full charge).

As for the part where it is not increasing PV to cover the loads, that does sound like a bug, of course you would want PV to run at full power to cover loads.

Thanks, my TOU settings are all the same. 15%, no charge, no sell. Definitely a bug on both #3 & #4.

 

[629658]

Thanks, my TOU settings are all the same. 15%, no charge, no sell. Definitely a bug on both #3 & #4.

I don’t think it’s a bug at all. I think you do not have your TOU settings correct. You are also a little light on your attached storage IMO. I get you are frustrated however but I think other than the gen alarm thing your Sol Ark will meet your other expectations right now. The TOU menu is confusing I agree but once you get a better understanding of it things will improve. In a nut shell both grid charge and gen charge boxes must be enabled in all time slots. Set your gen charge settings lower than grid charge settings. I personally use 40% grid and 30% for gen charge. I have 928 Ah of storage and find we can operate with some sun off grid for 22 hrs a day. We go grid charge early AM and charge for 2 hrs to 100% then back on battery. By the time PV starts producing its maintaining loads and charging the batteries until 100% again then goes to grid sell. The only way we would be using grid for loads is 1: During the charging time periods or 2: if I didn’t have enough battery to make it until PV production could make up the loads.

 

[Think About It]

I can tell you my gen will start in a grid outage and I believe I have my SA15 operating the way you describe. Night on battery as sun comes up PV ramps up charging batteries but also covers my loads until batteries are full then it’s grid sell the excess. Reverse process in the evening/night. I do grid charge in the early AM usually when rates are low. I have gen charge unchecked at the moment but usually both gen charge and grid charge boxes are all checked for all time periods.

What program are you using to make those settings? My PV pro and PV View do not look anything like that.

I don’t think it’s a bug at all. I think you do not have your TOU settings correct. You are also a little light on your attached storage IMO. I get you are frustrated however but I think other than the gen alarm thing your Sol Ark will meet your other expectations right now. The TOU menu is confusing I agree but once you get a better understanding of it things will improve. In a nut shell both grid charge and gen charge boxes must be enabled in all time slots. Set your gen charge settings lower than grid charge settings. I personally use 40% grid and 30% for gen charge. I have 928 Ah of storage and find we can operate with some sun off grid for 22 hrs a day. We go grid charge early AM and charge for 2 hrs to 100% then back on battery. By the time PV starts producing its maintaining loads and charging the batteries until 100% again then goes to grid sell. The only way we would be using grid for loads is 1: During the charging time periods or 2: if I didn’t have enough battery to make it until PV production could make up the loads.

Thanks. I never want the grid to charge. Some days I have more PV than I do batteries, therefore I always want to charge from the PV and never from the grid. If I don't have enough battery, I'll simply use the grid.

I do believe this is a bug because I have my working mode set to "load first" not "battery first".I read somewhere that at one time "load first"was classified as experimental.

 

[Think About It]

As for revenue grade CTs no one has them in any AIO that I know of and this has been a requirement for the 9 years I have owned solar even back in my SMA days. I solved this requirement by simply buying and mounting my own separate meter base and meter next to my inverter. Sent a picture and no one has ever looked at it since but it was there. I was required to install it for SREC payments now that those are gone it’s gone too

That's a great idea. Did you even have it wired up?

 

[629658]

That's a great idea. Did you even have it wired up?

Sure did for the past 8 years. Only removed when we installed the Sol Ark in September. Bought it off eBay and that satisfied their requirements. No one ever even looked at it. Since SRECs went away I didn’t reinstall it. I have this one if your interested.

 

[Llaves]

What program are you using to make those settings? My PV pro and PV View do not look anything like that.

It's my experience that working directly on the control panel is easier and may offer options not available in PV Pro or PowerView

 

[629658]

As for your other issues, I can’t address them 100% but in you description of what you wish to do I’m doing it without problems.

 

[Llaves]

As for revenue grade CTs no one has them in any AIO that I know of and this has been a requirement for the 9 years I have owned solar even back in my SMA days. I solved this requirement by simply buying and mounting my own separate meter base and meter next to my inverter. Sent a picture and no one has ever looked at it since but it was there. I was required to install it for SREC payments now that those are gone it’s gone too

As far as I know, in New Mexico SRECS are always addressed with a separate physical meter.

 

[629658]

I have Solar Assistant attached also but I use Power view to change my settings. While I could use Solar Assistant to make changes I find Power view easier. Solar Assistant just shows the information better for you. If you want the gen to auto start and charge you will need to check gen charge for all time periods and set it lower than your grid charge settings. I think once you familiarize yourself with it you will find it much easier to set a grid charge period get your batteries at 100% then work off your batteries. Otherwise you will be endlessly checking on your system to get what you want. If you let the Sol Ark do its thing you almost never have to mess with it unless something happens out of the ordinary. I check mine once a day usually to set up which 2 hrs of the day I will charge. I find we work well in the 40-100% SOC range but can go much lower if we have a grid outage. I also grid sell our excess. I have never used load priority but from your post I think I can do everything you are asking for. On my attachments yesterday we had power for $2.5 cents per kWH from 2300-0400. I elected to charge my batteries and stay on grid for those hours. These are the settings I used to do that. At 0400 we went back on battery and off grid. I figured with cheap power might as well use it.

 

[629658]

It's my experience that working directly on the control panel is easier and may offer options not available in PV Pro or PowerView

Certainly an option but I like the convenience of making my daily changes from my lazy boy.

 

[Llaves]

Certainly an option but I like the convenience of making my daily changes from my lazy boy.

Daily changes? I'm closing in on my set-it-and-forget-it goal (even if I do occasionally get obsessive about checking the incoming PV or checking the temperatures.)

 

[629658]

Daily changes? I'm closing in on my set-it-and-forget-it goal (even if I do occasionally get obsessive about checking the incoming PV or checking the temperatures.)

We have good TOU (hourly pricing) rates. We look at them daily at 1800 when they are published and buy our power for the next 24 hours at the lowest hourly price. Then we are able to sell our PV production during daylight at higher prices. As a rule we charge at 2.5-3 cents per kWh and sell at 5-15 cents per kWh. If we miss a day not a big deal but that’s our routine.

 

[robby]

Robby, thanks for your input. I have read many of your posts and appreciate your support to the community.

I was hugely enthusiastic about the Sol-Ark before I purchased it. I am trying to remain optimistic that they will remedy these problems in a timely manner.

I currently do not have a net-meter so I cannot sell to the grid.

All four of the issues have been confirmed by senior Sol-Ark support. They are saying that the system is operating the way that it is programmed.

Yes, I have the "Gen Charge" box checked and the "Gen Start SOC %" set to 10% "Battery Low "is t at 5%. It I disable TOU, the generator will start, and will charge the batteries. However, TOU is required for my use case.
It was finally confirmed by Sol-Ark that the generator will not start if TOU is enabled. I'm running 7.2.2.2 firmware.
Yes, I have the "Load First" energy pattern.
My TOU settings are all the same: 15%, no "sell" or "charge" checked.
My working mode is "Limited to Load".
"Grid Sell" is not enabled.

Sol-Ark will soon be releasing "Revenue Grade CTs" so they are compliant with the ANSI C.12 standard, which is required by most states to receive the solar tax credits. The revenue grad CT's are not going to solve the problem if your inverter is wired in-line with your grid. This is because the inverter can push produced power in multiple directions: To the grid, to the load and to the batteries. The Sol-Ark already measures PV production. They have alluded to me that the accuracy does not meet the standard. They haven't revealed in detail exactly what they are pursuing but it has something to do measuring the PV production at the MPPT level. I'm guessing either DC CT's or some other accessory device that would go inline with the MPPT's. I have searched but cannot find any ANSI C.12 compliant revenue grade metering device that would go inline with my MPPTs.

Prior to my purchase, I had several phone calls with Sol-Ark "Engineering Support" discussing my intended configuration, specifically the generator. It was never disclosed to me that my 22KW generator would not start nor would I be able to receive solar tax credits.

I have used "ladder logic" and written PLC code before. I have programmed in other languages also. I would have taken a different approach to the way that the Sol-Ark is programmed and configured.

Your Welcome and I am glad if I can help people with issues.

Ok well this is beyond me as to why it is working that way.
I can only address the Battery First vs Load First issue with how mine has been working.
Here are Graphs of When I had it in Battery First and then When I realized I was wasting grid power and I switched over the Load First

Battery First at 7:20am




Load First at 7:20am.

 

[Llaves]

We have good TOU (hourly pricing) rates. We look at them daily at 1800 when they are published and buy our power for the next 24 hours at the lowest hourly price. Then we are able to sell our PV production during daylight at higher prices. As a rule we charge at 2.5-3 cents per kWh and sell at 5-15 cents per kWh. If we miss a day not a big deal but that’s our routine.

I've heard of time-of-day rates, but never heard of a place where they published new prices daily. Interesting that you can arbitrage electricity during the day. The local utility in Albuquerque explicitly prohibits that, though I don't see why. If they have surplus at night and a shortage in the day, why should they care if you store it for them?