Solar as a hobby ROI.

[OldLett]

When I retired at age 70, I needed to continue engineering without endangering customers. Caught myself making mistakes and decided to quit before a disaster. So first installed a transfer switch for a genny. Storing gasoline for long term outage was impossible, so the Solar Hobby was started 15 years ago.
A couple of 100W 12V panels, 2 GC batteries, a 2kW inverter. Now it's 800W of panels, 4 GC and 2 LFP batteries, 2kW Samlex and 3VA Phoenix.
It's fun AND just last week an overnight power outage saved the fridge, heater and a few lights. 3rd time this HOBBY has made life convenient.
I'm 87 now, but can't quit tinkering. Contemplating adding a DIY LFP 280Ah 12V setup.

 

[murmeister]

I was planning on standby power, instead I shifted that cost to something I could get a return on daily. First plan was load reduction and backup power, before I finished I increased battery bank size to allow 97% off grid living.

Sounds like a page from my playbook. I was looking at ever larger generators that could power my house with gas/diesel/propane. One sunny day, the solution just blinded me!

One day, I may sit down and calculate the ROI. Perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised. I'll say this, though...

I only considered doing all this work because we have no plans to move any time soon!

 

[Brucey]

What are you going to excavate? I would tunnel to china in a month if i had one

Send those ultra cheap Chinese panels back when you break thru!

 

[Aridom82]

Send those ultra cheap Chinese panels back when you break thru!

My chinese panels are doing fine. I have Jinko Tiger pro 72, the price is very low right now

 

[Mattb4]

When I retired at age 70, I needed to continue engineering without endangering customers. Caught myself making mistakes and decided to quit before a disaster. So first installed a transfer switch for a genny. Storing gasoline for long term outage was impossible, so the Solar Hobby was started 15 years ago.
A couple of 100W 12V panels, 2 GC batteries, a 2kW inverter. Now it's 800W of panels, 4 GC and 2 LFP batteries, 2kW Samlex and 3VA Phoenix.
It's fun AND just last week an overnight power outage saved the fridge, heater and a few lights. 3rd time this HOBBY has made life convenient.
I'm 87 now, but can't quit tinkering. Contemplating adding a DIY LFP 280Ah 12V setup.

I hope that I can function at your level by the time I reach your age. I am just about 65 now and I definitely can see signs of decline. But you are right about having things to keep a person interested and engaged each day even if it is with a few more mistakes. I used to say, "I am not perfect and I make mistakes. One day I expect to make one that kills me."

 

[RV8R]

Neighbor was quoted an $80k connection fee by SCE to run 1/4 mile of line up a straight desert road. He went off-grid. I didn't bother to call. Just started slowly building my system.
More recently, a new neighbor was quoted a $5k engineering fee to get 'started. He has an existing line and transformer on his property maybe 50 feet from the building.
Where's this illusory ROI?

Not Sure where in the World you are @HighDesertOffgrid

Where's this illusory ROI?

Grid Tie In, can have a ROI as increased property values. Caveat, it is hard to see in the crystal-ball, but if Governments keep pushing EVs on us “Non-Grid” Properties can be “devalued”. However, there is an Ocean of Economics & much tides & undertows & currents which are created by others.

I actually have grid lines “single phase”, that is right next to my property ( 1 pole is only a few feet off my property line), so it might be economically advantageous for me to come in with a primary and drop to an electrical building.

 

[Brucey]

My chinese panels are doing fine. I have Jinko Tiger pro 72, the price is very low right now

Oh I was just joking we might be able to get around Chinese import tarrifs with your tunnel

 

[1201]

Do you take it for granted that this is either inevitable or beneficial?

All of modern civilization up until now was centralization and we built the world around us by centralizing our grids into nearly pan continental connectivity. But now "oh neverminded let's try the opposite". There's another word for decentralization: balkanization.

If you try to farm an acre of wheat you will struggle to feed a family. If you farm 1000 acres of wheat, you will feed 25,000. We centralize, scale, and pool our resources for a reason. When we forget why we did that and recede into individualism the famines will be back.

we understand the economies of scale. nothing larger in scale in our solar system, than the SUN. we are going to use the sun, more and more, like it or not.

 

[Lt.Dan]

I too am in California, using SoCal Edisons "Prime" rate, which is because of electric vehicle ownership. So our off-peak is ~$0.20/kWh, and on peak is ~$0.60/kWh.

My initial investment was $32,000, after tax credit was ~$22,400. ROI is in the 5-6 year range.

I don't try and track my ROI or what I have saved though, because for me it is a hobby, something I started to learn about and really enjoyed. Saving money is just a big bonus for me.

 

[hwy17]

we understand the economies of scale. nothing larger in scale in our solar system, than the SUN. we are going to use the sun, more and more, like it or not.

There's a much more reliable, centralized, 24/7, way to harvest a source of nuclear power. No batteries necessary.

 

[MisterSandals]

~$22,400. ROI is in the 5-6 year range.

$22,400 / 72 months = $311 savings every month?

 

[1201]

There's a much more reliable, centralized, 24/7, way to harvest a source of nuclear power. No batteries necessary.

Eventually it will be cheaper to have batteries than be connected to the grid. It's literally inevitable

 

[Mark Halvorson]

In my case, I bought a boat that needed the entire electrical system redone. My goal was to be able to be on the hook for two weeks without turning on the generator, that did/does not work.
Yes I went overboard, works as I need it. For six months of the year I have no power bill at all

 

[hwy17]

Eventually it will be cheaper to have batteries than be connected to the grid. It's literally inevitable

Yes, with our current cost recovery models, defection is going to represent an existential crisis for the grid.

But that doesn't mean it's a solution, or a real savings. When the medical emergency hits we all run to the same centralized hospital and in that moment you want them on the grid, so homeowners start dropping out of contributions but the grid's fixed costs stay the same so the hospital's bill goes up, and you pay for it another way through increased insurance premiums, or increased grocery bills, or increased manufacturing and distribution costs for the pumps and the electronics and everything else that's needed to make the illusion of the home's self reliance.

Unless you're really going to radically divorce yourself from all of it then you are a part of the society that will bear the cost of the grid in one way or another. If we mess up so badly that we do drive the grid into financial ruin, then the government will step in and fund it. It's not optional, it's not something we can live without.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

Not Sure where in the World you are @HighDesertOffgrid

Where's this illusory ROI?

Grid Tie In, can have a ROI as increased property values. Caveat, it is hard to see in the crystal-ball, but if Governments keep pushing EVs on us “Non-Grid” Properties can be “devalued”. However, there is an Ocean of Economics & much tides & undertows & currents which are created by others.

SCE -Southern Cali Edison.
I don't necessarily disagree with the rest. I do expect to see another housing/ real estate correction soon. Perhaps worse than 2008. But that is part of those tides and currents which are difficult to predict.

 

[RV8R]

SCE -Southern Cali Edison.
I don't necessarily disagree with the rest. I do expect to see another housing/ real estate correction soon. Perhaps worse than 2008. But that is part of those tides and currents which are difficult to predict.

We have not seen mortgage rates in Canada as high as they are for 23 years .

It is causing chaos & people are re-mortgaging with interest rates @ 200% or 300% what they were in the lows.

Think of this Spanish Flu / Roaring 20’s / Dirty 30’s / WW2

100 years later ,,, Covid19

 

[1201]

Yes, with our current cost recovery models, defection is going to represent an existential crisis for the grid.

But that doesn't mean it's a solution, or a real savings. When the medical emergency hits we all run to the same centralized hospital and in that moment you want them on the grid, so homeowners start dropping out of contributions but the grid's fixed costs stay the same so the hospital's bill goes up, and you pay for it another way through increased insurance premiums, or increased grocery bills, or increased manufacturing and distribution costs for the pumps and the electronics and everything else that's needed to make the illusion of the home's self reliance.

Unless you're really going to radically divorce yourself from all of it then you are a part of the society that will bear the cost of the grid in one way or another. If we mess up so badly that we do drive the grid into financial ruin, then the government will step in and fund it. It's not optional, it's not something we can live without.

Again with the backward thinking and trying to fight the inevitable. The grid will become unnecessary in the future, and then making it more expensive will speed up the defection. I don't think you understand- the time will come when the grid becomes unnecessary. Not may, will! We will stop burning gas and coal to create electricity, and that's a good thing.

The day will come when pv is so cheap that we can size for the worst day and have enough battery storage to go a week, or two. This is only the beginning

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

We have not seen mortgage rates in Canada as high as they are for 23 years .

It is causing chaos & people are re-mortgaging with interest rates @ 200% or 300% what they were in the lows.

Think of this Spanish Flu / Roaring 20’s / Dirty 30’s / WW2

100 years later ,,, Covid19

That is part of a larger conversation best had in the Chit-Chat zone. But I do believe we are beginning the 4th turning of an ~80-100 yr. cycle.

 

[Pi Curio]

Again with the backward thinking and trying to fight the inevitable. The grid will become unnecessary in the future, and then making it more expensive will speed up the defection. I don't think you understand- the time will come when the grid becomes unnecessary. Not may, will! We will stop burning gas and coal to create electricity, and that's a good thing.

The day will come when pv is so cheap that we can size for the worst day and have enough battery storage to go a week, or two. This is only the beginning

The grid is here to stay.

 

[hwy17]

Again with the backward thinking and trying to fight the inevitable. The grid will become unnecessary in the future, and then making it more expensive will speed up the defection. I don't think you understand- the time will come when the grid becomes unnecessary. Not may, will! We will stop burning gas and coal to create electricity, and that's a good thing.

The day will come when pv is so cheap that we can size for the worst day and have enough battery storage to go a week, or two. This is only the beginning

I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree or believe it. Hospitals, manufacturing, restaurants, apartments, and even many single family homes lack the available solar exposure to serve their energy requirements year round off grid.