Solar installation on truck camper interfering with FM radio reception

[evdog]

Since my solar/electrical system went live my FM radio reception has tanked. In the city here I've always had perfect FM reception for local stations, even after a cabover camper was installed on my Tacoma. Some stations will come in fine at one location but then fade in and out within a few miles drive. Others won't come in at all now. Radio is all but unusable right now.

XM Satellite is pretty bad too. It had some issues before in spots like mountains/forests/downtown where sky is obstructed but it is that bad everywhere now. When the signal is there it is clear, but it cuts in and out constantly every time I pass a big rig, tree, overpass, or any other obstacle. It was never this bad before.

As background on my truck/camper setup I have a 2019 Tacoma double cab. The camper is a Superpacific Switchback X1 which is a wedge roof top tent integrated onto a truck topper. I've installed two Renogy 100W flex panels on top. In the front of the bed I have a Renogy DCC50S charge controller, Renogy 100Ah LiFePO4 battery and Giandel 1200W pure sine inverter. 4awg cables run to the panels on the roof and to the alternator, 15-20ft of cable each. The inverter has been powered off so it is likely the interference is coming from the cables or the charge controller.

I've read about solar cables and MPPT controllers causing RFI (radio frequency interference) but those discussions all seem to center around Ham radio and VHF signals on boats. Anyone with solar panels up on their vehicle experienced this, and were you able to address the issue? My Tacoma has a shark fin antenna below the camper overhang. Would relocating that antenna likely solve the issue? Or perhaps installing a new antenna or some sort of signal booster? Something else I can try?

Thanks for any input!

 

[rmaddy]

Did the problem start after installing the camper on the truck or did it start after adding the solar and electrical to the camper? If the latter, try turning everything off. If no electricity is flowing I can’t see how just installing the solar components would affect reception. Reconnect one component at a time to narrow down the culprit.

My 2015 Tacoma has a regular FM antenna on the passenger side of the hood. The XM antenna is in the shark fin on the roof of the cab. Having the camper over the cab will likely interfere with the XM.

 

[HRTKD]

Some solar charge controllers have been mentioned as being a problem with RFI. That's where I would start. Renogy isn't what I consider high quality, so it's probably the culprit.

 

[Norm]

One of my hobbies is ham radio. I have run my equipment off of solar for over 14 years now. One thing I've learned is that all but one MPPT charge controllers produce a bunch of EMI/RFI which plays havoc on radio receivers.

If you are running a 12v battery bank and your panels are designed for a 12v battery bank having a panel voltage of between 17-18v then your best bet is to use a PWM charge controller. I run a Morningstar TriStar PWM charge controller that is designed to work well in a communications environment. While it has an internal switch which you can select to reduce interference even further, I've never had the need to do this. I have my charge controller about 3 feet from my transceivers. There is no noticeable noise on any of the HF bands or the VHF/UHF bands. This controller is an absolutely perfect as long as your panel voltage is designed for the battery bank voltage you are using.

If you are running a 24v battery bank, then you need to use or wire your panels in such a way that they are around 36v. Unlike the MPPT controllers, the PWM will not efficiently reduce the panel voltage to match the battery bank voltage.

Every MPPT charge controller I've used other than the "diysolarforu Sol" controller produces a bunch of EMF/RFI. They usually produce huge birdies which are spaced across the HF bands every 20-60khz. I'm talking about 30 over S9 signals all across the HF spectrum. I question the safety of being exposed to this type of radiation for long periods of time. This interference is caused by the switching circuit inside the controller.

I mentioned the MPPT "Sol" controller above. While this seems fairly quiet, it does not appear to outperform my TriStar PWM controller. I thought the "Boost" feature of the Sol would allow it to boost the voltage when on overcast or rainy days and produce more output than any MPPT controller. Today it is raining in Phoenix and I have been switching between bother controllers and believe it or not, the TriStar PWM controller seems to slightly outperform the Sol and it is rated for 60 amps and is highly configurable. I have it set up to charge my bank of 4 100Ah LiFePo4 batteries configured for 13.8v. I have 4 140w panels wired in parallel. Even when the panels were wired in series/parallel the Sol did not outperform the TriStar with the panels in parallel.

The biggest advantage of the Sol that I can see is that it will let you use larger, higher voltage (54v max), less expensive panels to charge a 12v battery bank with very little EMF/RFI.

If someone is going to match their panel voltage to their battery bank voltage then I would highly suggest using the TriStar as it is rated at 3 times the output of the Sol and is highly configurable. Once again, if you are using higher voltage panels to charge a 12v battery bank, the the Sol seems to make more sense.

Hope this helps.

 

[Norm]

I forgot to mention. I've tried 5 different MPPT controllers and they all produced a bunch of EMI/RFI across the ham radio HF bands including the AM broadcast band. I have tried filtering with toroid's, chokes, capacitors and spent a lot of time and a small fortune on MPPT and controllers and noise mitigation.

Another HUGE source of noise is via DC to AC inverters. These things are terrible. Once again producing birdies sometimes up to 60 S unites over S9 which IMHO can't be healthy for anyone very close to them. Makes me wonder when I see some folks have them running 24/7 in their cabin or small off grid home, boat or RV. With this much EMI/RFI I would recommend the inverter only be turned on when absolutely necessary unless it can be located a reasonable distance away. When I go camping in my RV, I can see the signals from all of the inverters around me on my radio's panadapter / waterfall. It is absolutely crazy the amount of interference these things put out. Of course the government isn't going to regulate them much and the solar industry has tons of money and they aren't going to let the government regulate them much. Class A and Class B EMI/RFI certification is only for above 30 Mhz and doesn't have one thing to do with interference on the HF bands between 500Khz and 30 Mhz. So if you think a product is good because it has class b certification, think again.

 

[evdog]

Did the problem start after installing the camper on the truck or did it start after adding the solar and electrical to the camper? If the latter, try turning everything off. If no electricity is flowing I can’t see how just installing the solar components would affect reception. Reconnect one component at a time to narrow down the culprit.

My 2015 Tacoma has a regular FM antenna on the passenger side of the hood. The XM antenna is in the shark fin on the roof of the cab. Having the camper over the cab will likely interfere with the XM.

I think there was a little XM reception lost when I added the camper, but not that noticeable. It didn't seem to affect radio reception at all. I'm not sure where the 2019 Tacoma radio antenna is. XM is definitely in the shark fin.

I did try disconnecting components to see what the effects were. Reception is pretty good when only solar input is connected. It seems worse when the alternator input is connected. Solar inputs only around 10amps max whereas alternator can input up to 25a. If the Renogy charge controller is the culprit, it would make sense it would generate more interference when higher current coming from the alternator. I seldom have the DC to AC inverter on, and never when driving as it's in the truck bed.

I haven't had much time to look into this further. For now the simple solution is to unplug the alternator when not needed, and also when within cell service stream from cell phone to truck audio using bluetooth. Clear reception that way, though it is more of a pain if I want to listen to radio.

Thanks for the input all!

 

[svetz]

Did you twist the DC wires? See https://diysolarforum.com/threads/an-enphase-ensemble-installation.3603/post-36150

 

[evdog]

I'd have to look to confirm, but did not twist the solar pos/neg cables far as I can recall. It might be possible to go back and do that depending how much it would shorten them. They're pretty fixed right now. I only ran a positive wire from the alternator. It is grounded direct to chassy from the charge controller, so nothing I can twist there.

 

[MisterSandals]

I only ran a positive wire from the alternator. It is grounded direct to chassy from the charge controller,

Your radio probably uses this same chassis grounding along with your spark plugs and other electrical bits.
You've probably just identified your problem and know how to resolve it...

 

[evdog]

RIght now it's grounded to a particular bolt on the frame someone recommended.

Where would I want to run the ground to - alternator? Elsewhere in engine bay?

Thx

 

[MisterSandals]

Where would I want to run the ground to - alternator?

That would be my first test before stringing a wire thru compartments.

 

[ko6kL]

Since my solar/electrical system went live my FM radio reception has tanked. In the city here I've always had perfect FM reception for local stations, even after a cabover camper was installed on my Tacoma. Some stations will come in fine at one location but then fade in and out within a few miles drive. Others won't come in at all now. Radio is all but unusable right now.

XM Satellite is pretty bad too. It had some issues before in spots like mountains/forests/downtown where sky is obstructed but it is that bad everywhere now. When the signal is there it is clear, but it cuts in and out constantly every time I pass a big rig, tree, overpass, or any other obstacle. It was never this bad before.

As background on my truck/camper setup I have a 2019 Tacoma double cab. The camper is a Superpacific Switchback X1 which is a wedge roof top tent integrated onto a truck topper. I've installed two Renogy 100W flex panels on top. In the front of the bed I have a Renogy DCC50S charge controller, Renogy 100Ah LiFePO4 battery and Giandel 1200W pure sine inverter. 4awg cables run to the panels on the roof and to the alternator, 15-20ft of cable each. The inverter has been powered off so it is likely the interference is coming from the cables or the charge controller.

I've read about solar cables and MPPT controllers causing RFI (radio frequency interference) but those discussions all seem to center around Ham radio and VHF signals on boats. Anyone with solar panels up on their vehicle experienced this, and were you able to address the issue? My Tacoma has a shark fin antenna below the camper overhang. Would relocating that antenna likely solve the issue? Or perhaps installing a new antenna or some sort of signal booster? Something else I can try?

Thanks for any input!

radio and TV sat signals are way up at 4000 to 18000 mhz , and can be blocked by one leaf on a tree. ( not from 0.100mhz inverter or charge controller noise ) so the shark fin antenna under the camper could be your problem with that system , noise on the radio power lines would be next thing to look at. Truckers use a small black cylinder on a short stick type antenna clamped to the mirror for the sat radio , look for them on sale at truck stops.
for the AM ( 1 mhz ) or FM radio ( 100mhz ) you might get RFI from the PV system or even a cigarette lighter jack cell phone charger ( try the brand archer they have nice one in a metal case ) I even find the rear window deicer effects FM reception , a lot more if it's a wire in the rear window style car FM antenna.

RFI clean phone charger

Amazon.com

here is the add-on's I am testing for my little back yard power system.
I think the AC line filter ( from my junk pile ) pressed into service on the DC lines did more than the ferrite chokes did.
that mppt charge control has a wicked amount of RFI , even when only hooked up on one side.

 

[HRTKD]

The LED lights in my RV are the cause of the RFI for the FM radio in the RV. Lights off, radio works. Lights on, radio gives me static. Then there's the Weboost cell phone booster. It's even worse than the LED lights, but the radio and Weboost are no more than 15" apart.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

only ran a positive wire from the alternator. It is grounded direct to chassy from the charge controller, so nothing I can twist there.

Where would I want to run the ground to - alternator? Elsewhere in engine bay?

You should home-run a “ground” (negative cable) to the battery or block connection point of the neg(-) battery cable. Often, a frame is grounded sufficient for the vehicle accessories but no more because there’s lots of electronic things that use. That may help.

So far most suggestions are to do with electronic solutions and possible RF concerns. Another answer is the RF waves been reflected, shielded, or possible outside ‘noise’ being concentrated on your arial. Mounting a good quality arial up higher than truck racks, etc., has worked for customer situations and may work for you.

A weird thing about even tiny dc electrical loads I have experienced: when I plug my phone into the usb charging port in my jeep I lose 75%+ of the FM signal. Completely gone sometimes. I have yet to solve it as I’ve tried ground connection changes etc. I haven’t installed yet but I bought 8ga wire and a small bluesea fuse box to homerun to the battery next. I was thinking not only twisting them but wrapping them 6-8 turns per inch with copper bell wire cuz it’s cheap and when grounded may mitigate any unlikely RF issues.

I’d try a high-mount FM if you can.

 

[Zwy]

Since my solar/electrical system went live my FM radio reception has tanked. In the city here I've always had perfect FM reception for local stations, even after a cabover camper was installed on my Tacoma. Some stations will come in fine at one location but then fade in and out within a few miles drive. Others won't come in at all now. Radio is all but unusable right now.

XM Satellite is pretty bad too. It had some issues before in spots like mountains/forests/downtown where sky is obstructed but it is that bad everywhere now. When the signal is there it is clear, but it cuts in and out constantly every time I pass a big rig, tree, overpass, or any other obstacle. It was never this bad before.

As background on my truck/camper setup I have a 2019 Tacoma double cab. The camper is a Superpacific Switchback X1 which is a wedge roof top tent integrated onto a truck topper. I've installed two Renogy 100W flex panels on top. In the front of the bed I have a Renogy DCC50S charge controller, Renogy 100Ah LiFePO4 battery and Giandel 1200W pure sine inverter. 4awg cables run to the panels on the roof and to the alternator, 15-20ft of cable each. The inverter has been powered off so it is likely the interference is coming from the cables or the charge controller.

I've read about solar cables and MPPT controllers causing RFI (radio frequency interference) but those discussions all seem to center around Ham radio and VHF signals on boats. Anyone with solar panels up on their vehicle experienced this, and were you able to address the issue? My Tacoma has a shark fin antenna below the camper overhang. Would relocating that antenna likely solve the issue? Or perhaps installing a new antenna or some sort of signal booster? Something else I can try?

Thanks for any input!

Overhang will affect any radio reception and also block XM. Over on FB in the truck camper group, many reported using a magnetic mount for GPS and another remote mount for XM.

On my TC, the factory radio antenna would hit the front of the camper so I bent it in a Z shape to clear after a few trips. Reception improved but I really need an antenna higher than the camper as it fairly directional now.

For improved cell coverage, I have a Weboost mounted to front jack mount. Driving it sticks about 8 t 10 inches above the camper roof (I have a hardside) and parked I can extend it another 6 to 7 feet.

 

[iwasforcedtopickausername]

Great information in this thread!

A weird thing about even tiny dc electrical loads I have experienced: when I plug my phone into the usb charging port in my jeep I lose 75%+ of the FM signal. Completely gone sometimes. I have yet to solve it as I’ve tried ground connection changes etc. I haven’t installed yet but I bought 8ga wire and a small bluesea fuse box to homerun to the battery next. I was thinking not only twisting them but wrapping them 6-8 turns per inch with copper bell wire cuz it’s cheap and when grounded may mitigate any unlikely RF issues.

I wanted to say that I've had the same thing with USB charging. I have one of those automotive 12V -> USB chargers. Two of the ports are "normal," and the other is some kind of a Qualcomm Quick Charge port. The normal ports are fine, but the Quick Charge port makes a ton of interference and pretty much knocks out my radio reception.