Solar power is not just for rich people.

[Mattb4]

I am noticing that there seems to be a Solar Country Club type that tends to look down on us less well healed solar adopters. They spend $100k for mounting systems designed by the Engineering firm that built the Twin Towers. While those of us on the poor side of the solar divide mount our panels to the chicken coop with bailing wire and duct tape.

They buy batteries from General Dynamics and NASA while we find batteries in junk cars and repurpose them. They buy electrical gear that cost us lesser solar folks more than our first home and all 8 of our kids.

Oh well, while I could dream of becoming one of the Tier 1 crowd I must admit I feel more comfortable with those that have to make do with what they can afford.

 

[A.Justice]

Even "cheap" solar is expensive for a lot of people. My system was (built 3 years ago) about the minimum cost, while still being safe.

2.4kw useable storage, 1.2kw solar, plus accessories and stuff were about $1600 (excluding my time). I already had a lot of electrical tools and wiring as well.

"Nearly six in 10 Americans don't have enough savings to cover a $500 or $1,000 unplanned expense" according to some study.

I'll admit I have a tendency to "look down" on people who spend a ton of money on really nice equipment, but have no idea how it functions or how to properly use / fix it.

Like 80% of my business is uber rich pool owners who call me to fix a cracked, above ground, PVC pipe, that can be cleared of water easily. They would rather spend $100+ than learn how to glue a coupler on. Then they brag to their friends about how awesome "their" pool is, when the reality is the only thing they actually did themselves was have a well paid job, or decent credit.

It's like people who are smug about the engineering of their vehicle brand. They act like they get some type of credit for the design of it just because they purchased one.

 

[1201]

I think solar power is mostly installed by poor people and they pay the penalty for being poor. Hear me out.

You want to do an 8kw system. You don't have $20k to pay for it- so you can't serve as gc and hire an electrician and an installer. So you go to a company that offers loans. They sell you the $20k system for $45k and charge you a 20% financing fee on top of that, and you have to pay interest. So a 20k system ends up costing $almost 70k all said and done. Because one was too poor to pay cash

 

[KITROBASKIN]

What about the Solar Middle Class? Some day we hope to climb that ladder to the middle. For now we can scrimp and save, and smile at our days in the sun.

 

[OzSolar]

Interesting thread. I'm always eager to learn, this might be a great thread to learn on.

On a similar note: home ownership is grossly overrated. Most people can't afford to own a home but still they strive to own a home that they can't afford. Case in point: recently a close friend chose to buy a house in Bella Vista, AR. I BEGGED them not to. Cut to the end of the story... they are highly leveraged and have terrible credit so they can't afford to make the $20k of HVAC repairs so they are regularly seeing 95f temps in thier home during the summer.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

So true about so many people buying homes and cars beyond their ability to meet unanticipated repairs.

With 3 different independent solar systems, and our total of 1,200 watts of claimed production, we try to remember turning off non-critical loads (like Viasat internet connectivity) during sleep and work away from home time, when there is a string of days where the sun will be obscured a lot. No shame in that.

Us modest system users are grateful for the gift that keeps on giving at the beginning of each sunny morning And when the clouds part. Hopefully all are grateful as well, regardless of how much money they have invested in solar.

 

[LeoThomson]

I'll admit I have a tendency to "look down" on people who spend a ton of money on really nice equipment, but have no idea how it functions or how to properly use / fix it.

I agree with everything else you have written, but I look at it a little different.

I am perfectly fine with people willing to pay for me for simple fixes, they obviously have other skills (I may not posses) that earn them enough to afford to pay me to do the job. For me it is pointless to look down on people, it doesn't make me feel better about my job.

 

[Wakintx]

Man, y'all can afford bailing wire? Actually, I'd love to have access to a resource of who has had success with a particular brand and model of equipment and length of time it's performing.

It's too easy to see people bash any brand/manufacturer because their equipment broke(or was broken by them) but the silent group goes on because complaining is easy.

All I can say is I established a budget, researched what I could get near it and it's running. Perfect? Nope.... More lifepo4 batteries.

Meanwhile, help anyone you can with whatever knowledge you have.

 

[pollenface]

The best value solar panels I believe are cheap 2nd hand ones from folks upgrading their grid-tied systems and wanting to hock the old panels not realizing their potential. I keep an eye out for $200-$300 deals for 1.5-2kw matched panel kits for friends.

 

[nc73]

Rich people don't need solar, eejits. Poor people can't afford solar. Than there is me...got tired of electricity prices doubling overnight.

 

[nc73]

The best value solar panels I believe are cheap 2nd hand ones from folks upgrading their grid-tied systems and wanting to hock the old panels not realizing their potential. I keep an eye out for $200-$300 deals for 1.5-2kw matched panel kits for friends.

Actually no used panels are not cheap especially if you have to ship it. I've never seen any used panels near by that was worth it. I got panels from SS shipped to me cheaper than what it costs from some place like santan solar. If you consider the tax credit and 100 dollar shipping it was half cheaper than used panels at the time. You also can't get tax credits for used panels.

 

[JoeHam]

I think this forum and the other unbelievable amount of resources now available make this a silly argument.

You wouldn’t believe how expensive it was to piece together a solar power system just 15-20 years ago.

I still have a used BP branded solar panel that was pulled off an oil rig when they used to swap them all out after some time since the helicopter service was so expensive.

I paid $80 for that used 15W BP panel at the Dayton Hamvention flea market more than 20 years ago ! That price was equivalent to a number of tanks of gas then, not one like today.

 

[Rednecktek]

$100 shipping? That's cheap! It's $350 for pretty much any place to ship to me. Not bad when buying a pallet of of 25, but it's the same shipping for a single panel too.

If you can find them locally the shipping really comes into play. When you only need a few panels, local is best followed by Amazon on total cost per watt.

I've been playing with solar since the HF My First Solar kit was the best starter kit available and when Ploy panels got down to $2/watt that was a big advancement.

 

[Ampster]

Hopefully the anonymity of forums reduces any class distinctions. There are issues on other forums and I can think of one where several other members occasionally participate, On that forum, the attitude is not as welcoming as I have found on this forum. I think that is a tribute to Will and the moderators that keep this forum relevant.

 

[JoeHam]

Instead of imagining people looking down at me I prefer to look up to folks like the couple in this video:

Just click on the underlined hyperlink and it will play.

That was posted in this thread by @Jennifer :

https://diysolarforum.com/threads/you’re-never-too-old-to-install-the-entire-system-by-hand.59733/#post-735704

Not sure why the link to that (@Jennifer) thread doesn’t work ?, probably operator error.

 

[ChrisFullPower]

Nobody cares if you’re poor. Just do it safely. You know what makes your even more poor? A fire.

 

[time2roll]

I think solar power is mostly installed by poor people and they pay the penalty for being poor. Hear me out.

You want to do an 8kw system. You don't have $20k to pay for it- so you can't serve as gc and hire an electrician and an installer. So you go to a company that offers loans. They sell you the $20k system for $45k and charge you a 20% financing fee on top of that, and you have to pay interest. So a 20k system ends up costing $almost 70k all said and done. Because one was too poor to pay cash

Or even worse they sign up for a power purchase agreement (PPA) and all excess production gets paid to the installation company for 20 years.
My neighbor did this and saved some money but was never really going to to achieve freedom. Then had to buy out the contract only about 40% into it. Doubt he was money ahead at the end.

 

[robby]

I have seen both upper middle class and lower middle class using solar.
I know there are lots of them out there but I have never personally seen a very wealthy person with solar. I guess if your a multi millionaire the electric bill is not really an issue and these guys all have huge Generators to power the property.
I did see one poor guy who lived in small beat up trailer with Solar. The minute I mentioned that I also had solar he started to ask me a million questions. He said he had four older 250W panels that he angles by hand and a 2000W Inverter, a 100A LFP battery and a cheap Chinese SCC. He uses the system to run his tiny fridge and a few lights.

 

[robby]

I think this forum and the other unbelievable amount of resources now available make this a silly argument.

You wouldn’t believe how expensive it was to piece together a solar power system just 15-20 years ago.

I still have a used BP branded solar panel that was pulled off an oil rig when they used to swap them all out after some time since the helicopter service was so expensive.

I paid $80 for that used 15W BP panel at the Dayton Hamvention flea market more than 20 years ago ! That price was equivalent to a number of tanks of gas then, not one like today.

Thats why I stayed away from Solar for so long.
It did not make financial sense to me until about 2020 when LFP batteries and Panels started to really drop in price.

 

[mcart117]

While those of us on the poor side of the solar divide mount our panels to the chicken coop with bailing wire and duct tape.

I am totally on your side.



I had a builder put the first row on the roof, because I didn't want to fall off, but the rest are leaning against whatever is lying around.

I think the tie it down for a cyclone mentality is for installers putting panels on rooves in crowded suburbs. You don’t want them blowing off and hitting pedestrians.

But if you are lucky enough to have some garden space in the middle of nowhere, you don’t need that level of certainty. First of all, they can’t fall and further than the ground they are already on. Second, if they do blow away, the worst they are going to do is hit a cat.

And you don’t have to spend a fortune on the panels. As the Country Club set upgrade their installations, the panels they discard are either given away, or sold very cheaply. In WA you can pick up a 10 yo 190 watt panel for $25 if you hunt around a bit.