diy solar

diy solar

Solar power is not just for rich people.

Sorry to side track here, but I work on the refrigerated containers on ships and there was a time many years ago when there was a HUGE deal with some of the R-134a gas coming out of Vietnam for a while. It was contaminated and would occasionally explode when you filled a system and fired it up. The pictures of the aftermath made me pucker for quite a while...
It was well discussed back in the day in industry forums. I was a beta tester for Neutronics in the past on their equipment, knew Peter Coll thru the forums and he was a great contact for industry information. The problem at the time was the refrigerant identifiers could not reliably test for R40. Quite a few ship fires at the time. What occurred was industrial chillers were brought in to Vietnam, then filled with refrigerant. Once in the US, the refrigerant was extracted and bottled, then sent out. I believe it was a way to circumvent customs and tariffs.

From their press release:

Exton, PA (December 21, 2011). Neutronics has issued the
following urgent "Statement of Action" to all industries
using R134a refrigerant:

Statement of Action After review of information provided by
many reputable sources, Neutronics urgently advises that all
industries using R-134a refrigerant immediately test all
cylinders thought to be virgin R-134a (including new 30
pound cylinders). This can be done with a Neutronics Ultima
ID DX or HV series Refrigerant Identifier. Any cylinder that
is "failed" by the identifier or found to contain 100% R134a
with ANY "Air" or "Non(NCG)" should be isolated. It has been
reported that cylinders containing contaminated refrigerant
are marked as "R-134a" and some have counterfeit name brand
chemical company labeling. This contaminated refrigerant
cannot be identified using standard pressure and temperature
measurements of the cylinder.

Background Several months ago, Neutronics Inc., Refrigerant
Analysis Division, was engaged by the ocean going shipping
industry to assist with a R-134a refrigerant contamination
problem that reportedly resulted in several deaths and a
significant interruption to ocean going transport. During
the course of this activity, it was discovered that this
dangerous refrigerant contamination problem was not isolated
to a single industry but had potentially penetrated the
R-134a refrigerant supply for applications in many global
markets including automotive.
Much of the contaminated R-134a refrigerant has been shown
to contain significant quantities of R-40 (aka Methyl
Chloride or Chloromethane). R-40 is extremely toxic,
flammable and highly reactive when exposed to aluminum in
that it forms a third, highly volatile compound. It is
critical to note the safety concerns that R-40 is a harmful
and dangerous material that is not suited for use in R-134a
refrigeration air conditioning systems. Most, if not all of
the contaminated R-134a has been found in counterfeit
labeled "virgin" R-134a cylinders. In one instance it was
reported that "thousands" of 30 lb. R-134a refrigerant
cylinders have been found to be counterfeits of name brand
product. Other suspect virgin R-134a containers have also
been found to contain large quantities of R-22 and R-12
refrigerants.

The vast majority of Neutronics manufactured refrigerant
identifiers are configured for the detection of R-134a,
R-12, R-22 and Hydrocarbons. It is important to note that
the ONLY acceptable readings on Neutronics Ultima ID DX or
HV series refrigerant identifiers for a "virgin" R-134a
cylinder are: R134a 100% R12 0.0% R22 0.0% HC 0.0% Air/Non
0.0%

No current or previous Neutronics R-134a identifier is/was
designed for detection of R40 as a direct contaminant. Not
all Neutronics refrigerant identifiers are suitable for
safely detecting the presence of R-40 in R-134a (e.g. the
"Mini ID R-134a" identifier is not suitable for R-40
detection). Neutronics has evaluated the performance of both
current and legacy refrigerant identifiers to determine
their suitability for use in testing cylinders with the
suspect R-40 material. To date, all reported cases of
"virgin" cylinder contamination have included at least
30%-40% R-40 in the cylinder.

A new reference chart published by Neutronics Refrigerant
Analysis is now available on the Neutronics website that
details the various Neutronics Identifiers currently in the
field and how they should react when exposed to R-40
refrigerant. Interested parties should visit
www.refrigerantid.com [refrigerantid.com] for more
information. This information will be readily available on
the home page.


Neutronics was a great company in the early years, I own 5 of their identifiers. The problem was Peter and others were ready to retire and the company was sold off to Bacharach which is now some other company. Peter was smart, he sat on the SAE boards and they set the rules and regs for refrigerant equipment standards. It was required after a certain date that any refrigerant recycler had to be equipped with an indentifier and if it failed the test the machine would not pull any refrigerant out or charge the system. The only company that made identifiers was Neutronics.
 
If I recall correctly when I was working with cars that required R-12 to 134A conversion, there was a product offered that would do both without having to go in and replace seals / etc. It would work with both oil types. Great product. Apparently it was flammable and eventually discontinued, but I think I have about 12 cans of it in the shop.

EPA allowed that crap under SNAP rules and it should not have occurred. The problem with blends and alternatives was the oil would not circulate thru the system leading to compressor failure. I should know, 28 years now of mobile HVAC, 608 and 609 certified, I've worked on too many systems over the years including reefer trailers, off road stuff, cranes, you name it. I've seen it all in my time. I sure made plenty of money off that crap, so it wasn't all bad.

The alternatives and blends were required to have their own special port fittings installed on the systems, I never found a single system that had those fittings installed. I test every system I work on, even ones I know I'm probably the only tech who ever worked on it because you never let your guard down. Get lazy and pay the price.

If it contained any hydrocarbon contamination, I would pack up and leave. I would tell the customer if the system is empty I would work on it. Many would have a mysterious leak after I left. I simply made the decision it wasn't worth my time to deal with it.

There was a very well known "Amish modification" for RV fridges that massively increased their efficiency from Ammonia cooled. These fridges suck in general (other than low power use). It think it's more common now to install residential refergerators and inverters. Probably cheaper too. I have a 12V "compressor fridge" as a 2ndary in our RV and it's great.
My truck camper 3 way will be replaced by a 12/24V compressor fridge. We only use the Dometic CFX95 now and it sips power off the solar system.
 
My emergency back up system gave me 24 hours runtime on just running the refrigerator Cost ~$3500-$4000 to set it up… I have solar panels but not cut in… just batteries to test it… the system sucked the ~5kw batteries down to 45% or so in 24 hours with just an ac refrigerator.

On grid power with a kilowatt meter my refrigerator a few days before pulled 1.77kw for a 24hour period. the power-watt usage was similar. This is a MPP Solar 3048 aio and himassi 12v series tied - 48 volts smart bt batteries. Battery percentages were obtained from bt bms. I suspect the 3048 aio is a hog because it is powering an mppt and internal battery charger and inefficiencies of running dc to ac inverter. Again the refrigerator on grid pulls 1.77 kw a day and my ~5kw system was pulled down to 45% in just 24 hours.

No doubt adding solar will change run times but this was just a battery run to test system. Again so for just my system it drug the batteries down to ~45%….. price was around $2500 minus the solar panels and mounts for an emergency system.
There is room for improvements. I won’t even make 2 days -48hours on just this battery setup and the current refrigerator.

edit added what are you getting in a test condition like this?
 
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My emergency back up system gave me 24 hours runtime on just running the refrigerator Cost ~$3500-$4000 to set it up… I have solar panels but not cut in… just batteries to test it… the system sucked the ~5kw batteries down to 45% or so in 24 hours with just an ac refrigerator.

On grid power with a kilowatt meter my refrigerator a few days before pulled 1.77kw for a 24hour period. the power-watt usage was similar. This is a MPP Solar 3048 aio and himassi 12v series tied - 48 volts smart bt batteries. Battery percentages were obtained from bt bms. I suspect the 3048 aio is a hog because it is powering an mppt and internal battery charger and inefficiencies of running dc to ac inverter. Again the refrigerator on grid pulls 1.77 kw a day and my ~5kw system was pulled down to 45% in just 24 hours.

No doubt adding solar will change run times but this was just a battery run to test system. Again so for just my system it drug the batteries down to ~45%….. price was around $2500 minus the solar panels and mounts for an emergency system.
There is room for improvements. I won’t even make 2 days -48hours on just this battery setup and the current refrigerator.

edit added what are you getting in a test condition like this?
2.5Kw over 24 hours is 104W per hour. Let's divide the fridge 1.77Kwh over 24 hours= 73.75W per hour. 104W- 73.75W= 30.25W per hour to run the AIO. Not bad actually, my EG4 6500EX's draw about 200W for the pair.

Most use a small inverter to run just a refrigerator. Use the Killowatt to see what the max load in watts, then purchase a small inverter that will run just the refrigerator. That would be way more efficient.

My DC powered Dometic draws about 40W when running. If given a choice, direct DC is way more efficient than using a DC to AC inverter.
 
2.5Kw over 24 hours is 104W per hour. Let's divide the fridge 1.77Kwh over 24 hours= 73.75W per hour. 104W- 73.75W= 30.25W per hour to run the AIO. Not bad actually, my EG4 6500EX's draw about 200W for the pair.

Most use a small inverter to run just a refrigerator. Use the Killowatt to see what the max load in watts, then purchase a small inverter that will run just the refrigerator. That would be way more efficient.

My DC powered Dometic draws about 40W when running. If given a choice, direct DC is way more efficient than using a DC to AC inverter.
I eye balled that exact EG4 6500 INVERTER when it was on sale. i love their eg4 48v rack - battery just to expensive-especially the added freight shipping.

I am cheap and this is an emergency back up basic system. Oh I did run the microwave about 4 minutes and keurig coffee maker a couple times. No doubt they pulled down the batteries during testing with refrigerator. That is realistic for how would use it in an emergency. Keurig is 1112watt while running. The microwave is a hog. 1707 watt draw. The Cosori air fryer draws 1712 for biggest kitchen hog - did not try it. Think am still cheaper and way ahead vs a battery system like bluetti…or eco flow. If manage items used can survive especially if got solar cut in and producing. If all else fails will fire up one or both generators. Always plan a-b-c options. The quiet time of the batteries was nice vs a generator noise.

I think it would be nice to see a dc refrigerator complete with batteries and mppt just plug the solar panels up.
The batteries would take up a lot of room as a down side and be inside the living space of the home. They wouldn’t get cold.

This guy does not make living off grid look fun. The LG 120vac refrigerator he is running has fantastic specs. The LG LTCS20020* seems to be the key element - low watt draw with inverter controlled compressor according to guy in video.
This guy has about ~$1200 in his refrigerator - 1500watt 12v dc-ac inverter - battery and he got 21:10 hrs-mins out of his single Chins 12v 100ah bt smart battery rated at 1280 watts..

His shown battery by chins is same basic battery as my himassi just more expensive for the chins version. Some ppl on here have opened them up and compared. Again that refrigerator is key.

Dometic refrigeration has probably the best name in the business at decent pricing. Lot of ppl know - use that brand for rv-camping. All of them swear by theirs and not at them. ? Most ppl that I know have the ice chest or dorm room size. How big is the dometic refrigerator you have?
 

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This is my Dometic, I've owned it since 2017. I removed the backseat of the extended cab pickup and made a platform for it to sit on. I have a cord hardwired from camper electrical system to the truck cab, just plug the truck into the camper so I run off my solar system and not the truck starting batteries. https://www.dometic.com/en-us/outdoor/coolers/electric-coolers/dometic-cfx-95dzw-145458

We quit using the 3 way fridge, at some point I'll probably pull it out and install a DC compressor model. Not in a hurry, RV DC fridges haven't readily adopted inverter technology.
 
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That dometic you have is similar to the one that friends use and like.

The Unique Appliance brand of refrigerators seem interesting but are expensive around $2300 for ~14 cu ft Great specs. But smaller. offered - 24vdc.They are reported as made in Canada.
quick search


The LG LTCS20020 around 20 cubic feet for ~ $700 seems very affordable for the specs. It is suppose to be inverter technology 120vac.
The 387 kw a year is impressive for a 120vac refrigerator figure. Not as good as specs for Unique dc but more space, 1/3 price cheaper, and 120vac.


This is largest dc powered refrigerator can find but never heard of this brand Kodiak 17.2 cu ft no idea where it is made.
  • Daily Power Consumption (24hrs) Tested at 70F Ambient: 749Wh, 29.3Ah
    w/Refrigerator Temp @ 36F, Freezer Temp 0F with no door openings
  • Daily Power Consumption (24hrs) Tested at 78F Ambient: 1004Wh, 39.4 Ah
    w/Refrigerator Temp @ 36F, Freezer Temp 0F with no door openings
The external temp difference play a big role for energy consumed. The kodiak is around $1099 and 12vdc to 120vac adapter is around $150.00 if a person wanted use 120vac. The consumption will no doubt go up. The shipping is high around $500-$600.

this guy offers complete RICH branded solar panels batteries and various refrigerators Again high priced shipping. his complete systems are expensive in my opinion.

title of this thread:
”Solar power is not just for rich people.” ?? we want to miser every penny when checking ROI…don’t we? I can’t bring myself to add up total for my emergency system as it is a nickel - dime thing like doing anything else. if sat down and did a complete pricing beforehand might never have done it. About like building custom motorcycle everything is $100 or more for each piece…. Not really just seems that way. ?

My Conclusion: I don’t think the Unique refrigerator is worth 3x price of LG model or 2x price of Kodiak. Do you? The kodiak is larger and cheaper then the Unique Appliance. The LG is the largest at 20 cu ft and cheapest initial purchase ~$700 price but it is 120vac which needs inverter. I certainly see off grid wattage consumption going way up unless home climate temps are controlled for refrigerator location with air conditioning. That off grid guy on youtube seems to love his lg refrigerator.

I think we need to see more specific made solar dc appliances. ….. in the future.
 
This Will Prowse video about EG4 solar dc air conditioner is interesting:

this system is actually affordable compared to what most mini splits are selling for and the refrigerators are more efficient if the indoor temp is cooler. Ppl love to be comfortable Do you know anyone that actually likes to sit around and sweat all the time? Hahaa


My grid electric bill use to be $180-$190 a month. My grid electric bill last month was $84.00 which is typical now. I have made several improvements to save power biggest was dumping the electric water heater for a Rinnai tankless propane water heater. Sadly if used no electricity from grid and still hooked up to my grid the bill would still be around $40 per the electric company associate fees. ~$40 per month is cost of just being hooked up. There is little to no money from feeding back into the grid system here So no ROI if went all in.
 
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