Solar house generator I started DIY back in 2000 - My path from Trace to Xantrex (on FLA battery) to XW Pro inverters on Tesla Model S batteries

[dougbert]

I have no qualms about making neutral a loop, or ground a loop, so long as it doesn't offer a lower resistance path with insufficient ampacity.

When current flows through L, I expect it to return through the closest N (or G in case of a fault), because that offers lowest inductive impedance. (although I haven't checked the math to confirm it does do that at 60 Hz.)

my generator circuit ties into the inverter in the PDP, with Neutral and Ground.
Then I have a L14-30R off of that same circuit

That L14-30R has a GFCI breaker for it as it is located in basement, a wet location per NEC
The CLP uses the same Neutral/Ground tree layout, but without a loop

When I plug the adapter cable into the genny L14-30R and then into the CLP, it connects both the Neutral and the ground lines and forms the loops. As that happens the GFCI trips as current is now flowing via both paths - not good.

The feature I hoped for, is not critical and not really needed. I thought it would be neat, but not easily fixed. I could put yet another transfer switch or 4 pole disconnect, downstream before the genny circuit enters the inverter's PDP

naw, not worth it

 

[dougbert]

So, I am going to leave the interlock kit and the 30 amp breaker installed in the CLP, but am removing the INLET plug and flex conduit that connects it to the CLP.

For what I originally wanted to do (namely, feed my CLP from a generator feedline) I am going to run another (second) generator circuit, 10 awg this time for the 30 amp INLET plug, out next to the 50 amp INLET plug. Sort of stereo input. Yeah, weird but so am I sometimes

More straight forward solution, if some what over kill, but I like new features. Won't get it done soon, but I will get to it

I used 1" Sched 40 conduit to run the 4 #6 awg wires for the genny circuit. 1" conduit can hold 6 #6 wires, so adding 4 #10 wires might be good. I have a couple of JBs for pull points. Will do some research, but I think it will work

 

[dougbert]

I have removed the L14-30R from the CLP, saving to install outside

 

[dougbert]

Begun work on installing a set of SSR relays controlled by the Inverter AUX port. Trigger will be LOW battery voltage level and when triggered, will enable the SSRs allowing my Chargeverter to be powered by the grid

here is the strawman

chargeverter is shown plugged into the SWITCHED L14-30R

below that is the SSR junction box with clear front panel. The 2 SSRs are shown on the bottom while a 12v relay is on the top, behind the fan (which will be place inside under the top deck).



A SOOW cable will exit the JB on the lower left, with a L14-30P and will be plugged into the GRID L14-30R on the left, labeled GRID

Conduit will exit the top left of JB and feed the L14-30R that the chargeverter is plugged into

With this, I will be able to programmatically do battery charging when the battery is low, which the XW Pro has problems with, in an OFF grid environment. It is normally targeted as a UPS system or a backfeed Netmetering operation


Also will be adding the RPO control circuit as well, for Remote Power Off, for use by first responders who want to shut my system off, in case of fire. The button will be located near the grid service panel

 

[dougbert]

Spent 30 minutes and finished the last task in preparation for the 2nd XW Pro:

TASK: Adding a second 4/0 cable to the NEGATIVE FEED into the XW Pro's PDP

Transfer power source to grid and then shutting down the power plant system



First step was to turn on the GRID breakers, from the main disconnect outside
In prior switch overs, I have forgotten to enable the GRID breakers and solicitated a call from the wife



and the Main Breaker panel inside



Then the feed line in to the MAIN Transfer switch



Then finally switch from Solar/Battery power



to the GRID, for powering the house



And the XW Pro is no longer powering the house



And disconnecting the arrays from the battery, turning off the 2 breakers per array



Next step is disconnecting the battery from the system. Do so by pressing the BLUE power button on the Jack-In-The-Box



which turns off fast

 

[dougbert]

Inserting the new 4/0 cable into the NEG conduit



need to connect it that open contact point on the NEG bus



here is the POS dual 4/0 connection point on the 250 amp breaker buss



here is the lower DC portion of the PDP box with the DC array breakers at the top, and the inverter 250 amp breakers at top right - some ask do you really need the PDP? - well without it, one has to come up with another solution to contain what is in these pictures





Here is the upper portion of the PDP box, AC is in the top half of the pic, and DC in the lower half of the pic

the DC NEG buss can been seen on the lower back wall where the new 4/0 will be mounted at




Feeding the 2 4/0 cables into the strain relief glan - kudos to David Poz for finding and showing these in his YT video



his video

 

[dougbert]

Tightening the cables onto the NEG bus



the DC bus and the POS bus support 3 XW Pros by default. More XW Pros require external mounting busses and breakers (Well on the 60 amp MPPT CC's can have their breakers inside the PDP, the 80 and 100 amp MPPT CC's also require external breakers). The PDP is not rated for 600 VDC





both NEG and POS dual 4/0



done connecting cables inside the PDP

 

[dougbert]

Now connecting the other end of the NEG 4/0 cable to the 500 amp shunt stud





need to construct 2 short segments for these to double them up as well
Main DC buss bars are rated at 600 amps, fuse is 400 amps




and here is the last segment from the fuse back to the battery - 2/0 cable. That is what came with the Jack-In-The-Box.



One thing I could to is to cut/shorten the 2/0 legs and replace with 4/0 segments, thus reducing the length of 2/0 that carries the amperes.
Such a task would not replace the 2/0 that enters the box, just shorten them outside the box

Jack Rikard did indicate they tested the 2/0 wire, in developing the Jack-In-The-Box, to 330+ amps. He did mumble the cables were "warm"

In this configuration, 2 XW Pros, can only support 14.4 kw MAX (due to internal 60amp relays), which would be DC 288 amps from the battery (shared across the 2 inverters, each with a 250 amp breaker)

 

[dougbert]

Power back on time

Turning Jack-In-The-Box back on, and waiting for the surge resistor to pre-charge the inverter

BLUE light power on
RED light pre-charge stage
GREEN light contactors indicate full connection reached, about 15 seconds total time (Programable)









turn on arrays' breakers



battery conduits buttoned up



switch from GRID power to SOLAR/BATTERY power





Inverter back to normal state of running the house



turning off the GRID breakers

 

[dougbert]

to run house in OFF grid mode

 

[dougbert]

I feel great getting that done

 

[dougbert]

continuing my generator adventure

I scan the local classifieds for cheap/broken generators and I found one. A Winco TF9000E/Q 8000 watt continuous/9000 watt surge generator with a B&S Vanguard V2 16HP engine. Engine works great, but seller said one day the power head didn't make any more power. Used at his cabin to power the place, pump water etc. He had had it for many years and kept it clean

So he did not want to debug it, bought another gen-set and was selling this for $50 (Winco generators can sell for $1000 to $4000)
Tri-fuel from the factory




I quickly contacted him and said I wanted to buy it.

Got it on my truck and took it home. Bought a dolly at Harbor freight for $37 so I can wheel it around




used my receiver cherry picker to get it off the truck






opened it up and used a VOM to measure things and check things out, all looked good.



and then I found the issue. Here is what I found at Fault


One of the 2 wires that connects to the 3 capacitors (40uFds each) in parallel. It had rubbed against a frame, worn off the insulation, shorted and melted the wire

So I fixed the wire, put things back together and fired it up (on propane, it has never had gasoline in it - BTW built in 1997) and WE HAD POWER

Amber light bulb



So I loaded it up with loads to see how it was performing

 

[dougbert]

with no LOAD voltage was 117v, and as I added loads to 3000 watt voltage dropped to 107



replaced the 25 year old caps with 3 new ones (took 10 days to arrive) and voltage raised 2-3 volts to 120v with no load

at 3000 watts voltage was 112v

James Condon (Youtube generator fixer) indicated this unit has had low voltage issues over time. No AVR and brushless

Still I can use it to feed the chargeverter to charge the batteries just fine

today I added a good muffler and the exhaust noise dropped 10db

GS-238 -Exhaust exit ports 1-3/8 to 2-3/8 inches

For generators with existing exhaust outlet outside diameter greater than 1-3/8 inches, but not larger than 2-3/8 inches.

gensilencer.com

So I say: Good find for backup power to my backup power. Will extend Natural Gas line to generator location. Also have hoses for propane as well. Do not want to put gasoline in it


So $50 initial, then $132 for the caps. Finally new air filter, oil filter, spark plugs, 2 valve cover gaskets (valves needed adjusting).

I am still awed by this "gift"

 

[Supervstech]

Wow, just, wow...

$50! I think that is fantastic.

Odd it can't keep up at 3000W though.
Is it all on one leg?

 

[Hedges]

The Harbor Freight plastic dolly is fragile. I put a load binder strap around it to secure something, and the sideways force cracked the plastic side.

Looks like you've got a bolt through. Consider reinforcing and spreading load around the bolt by filling with epoxy or epoxying in a thicker piece on the bottom. Also look at how sheet metal frame has edges bearing on a small area.


Decades ago when I could buy an automotive muffler for $20 at Grand Auto, I put on on my Onan welder/generator. Much quieter.

 

[dougbert]

Wow, just, wow...

$50! I think that is fantastic.

Odd it can't keep up at 3000W though.
Is it all on one leg?

here is part of my conversation with Jim

MINE:

On the Winco brushless, 8000 watts (gasoline), I have installed the 3 new capacitors and it did improve voltage about 2 volts AC across the load range tests

this is on propane, new CAPs. I did bump Hz to 62.5

NO Load: 120.3v @ 62.5
1400w: 115.1v @ 61.3
2580w: 111.7v @ 60
3160w: 109.7v @ 59.5
3830w: 109.2v @ 59.5
4380w: 107.7 @ 59.2

would like to see what 5000w or maybe 6000w will do, but my 15amp breakers tripped.
need a break out box for the 50a receptacle

I will being using this generator to charge my solar batteries and not directly power the house. The charger can still use the lower voltage to convert to 48vdc

HIS Response:

A generator like that, you will see on average a 20 volt sag from no load to full load. So the drop you are seeing is normal. The big issue is the no load voltage. It should be starting closer to 130 volts. I did a quick search on your model and found others complaining about the same. No load voltage at around 120v and then it drops as the load is increased. 62.5 hertz is about the limit you should go to on the engine speed. The only other option would be to try capacitors with a different uf rating. Of course it would be trial and error probably not worth the cost.

--Jim

Trying different values of capacitors would be interesting, BUT I don't know which direction to go: Larger uFs? Lower? an how much? 10uFds? 5?

at $132 per set that is costly

I have learned much from his videos

https://www.youtube.com/@jcondon1

 

[dougbert]

Wow, just, wow...

$50! I think that is fantastic.

Odd it can't keep up at 3000W though.
Is it all on one leg?

1500 watts per leg

 

[dougbert]

The Harbor Freight plastic dolly is fragile. I put a load binder strap around it to secure something, and the sideways force cracked the plastic side.

Looks like you've got a bolt through. Consider reinforcing and spreading load around the bolt by filling with epoxy or epoxying in a thicker piece on the bottom. Also look at how sheet metal frame has edges bearing on a small area.


Decades ago when I could buy an automotive muffler for $20 and Grand Auto, I put on on my Onan welder/generator. Much quieter.

I understand. The official 2 wheel kit is $230 from Winco - geez

 

[Hedges]

Trying different values of capacitors would be interesting, BUT I don't know which direction to go: Larger uFs? Lower? an how much? 10uFds? 5?

at $132 per set that is costly

Have the old caps? What value due they read?
Could place in parallel for greater capacitance.

New caps increased voltage slightly? Probably new caps had more capacitance?

I would have thought there was an exciter winding fed by something like an adjustable resistor.

 

[Crowz]

How quiet is it after the gensilencer install? I need something for my 12kw generator. It's WAY to loud.