Sun GTIL2 1000 Limiter doesnt work

[fafrd]

Well, looks like one of my two GTIL inverters died today.

I smelled the faintest of smells like something was overheating yesterday but suspected that smell was coming from my BMS.

When this more heavily-loaded GTIL tried to start up this morning, the display switched to a fine-text display with two red lines and then it turned off before I could read what the text said.

I first put that GTIL in service 18 months ago and it has produced ~1800-1900 kWh of power over that time.

I may try to follow your efforts to replace a burned FET but the bottom line is that these GTILs are fragile and cannot take the stress of being run anywhere near their maximum (as you stated).

This unit ran an average of 275W of output (35% of the 800W maximum).

 

[JoeHam]

Well, looks like one of my two GTIL inverters died today.

I first put that GTIL in service 18 months ago and it has produced ~1800-1900 kWh of power over that time.

This unit ran an average of 275W of output (35% of the 800W maximum).

Sorry to hear that.

I’ve read all your posts on these and was hoping to get one to experiment with this summer.

My only experience was with another lower power GTIL that fortunately died within the Amazon return window. I really wish someone would produce a robust one as they do have potential.

IF I go ahead this summer I would probably limit it to 50% of rated output maximum. I assume this can be set and limited by the GTIL.

Although your average output was 35%, did you have intermittent use at a much higher % of rated capacity ?

If so, how high ??

 

[cs1234]

At $.10kwh that isn't even half what they cost at $400 each.

 

[JoeHam]

At $.10kwh that isn't even half what they cost at $400 each.

Yup, and my cost is only $.06/kWh.

IF I proceed I will put my big boy pants on and be prepared for a potential full loss.

It might be some more tuition paid to the school of hard knocks to gain some knowledge.

And sometimes crazy sh!t works out and I save money. Either way I enjoy the journey ?.

 

[fafrd]

Sorry to hear that.

I’ve read all your posts on these and was hoping to get one to experiment with this summer.

My only experience was with another lower power GTIL that fortunately died within the Amazon return window. I really wish someone would produce a robust one as they do have potential.

IF I go ahead this summer I would probably limit it to 50% of rated output maximum. I assume this can be set and limited by the GTIL.

I believe you can either limit up a specific W level internally or use the CT sensor to limit externally, but not both at once…

Although your average output was 35%, did you have intermittent use at a much higher % of rated capacity ?

If so, how high ??

Yes, when the electric oven element was on, both GTILs would max out (at ~800W).

Exceedingly small % of the time, however, and both GTILs were maxed out for the same % of time.

So I’m guessing it was more related to average /cumulative output rather than peak.

The one that died averaged 275W (~35% of peak); the one that is still fine averaged 25W / 3%…

 

[JoeHam]

I believe you can either limit up a specific W level internally or use the CT sensor to limit externally, but not both at once…

For my application I would need to do both at once.

Thanks for the information. You’ve documented a lot of experience with these on the forum.

 

[cs1234]

I already have one of the GTIL's.. but..

I've been contemplating one of these Legion Solar limiters and microinverter(s). Initial cost kind of similar to the GTIL for "usable wattage", but possibly better reliability.. who knows. One control box can control up to 32 of the microinverters (260w) Question is whether it's wifi limiter box actually works worth a darn, and the company is pretty spotty, but not any more spotty than the GTIL selling companies.

As many of these as you want for your desired wattage, hooked to a battery instead of solar panels.. $150 each

And one of these for the "limiting" and control. $300

 

[cs1234]

For my application I would need to do both at once.

Thanks for the information. You’ve documented a lot of experience with these on the forum.

I've got one and I'm limiting it to 200watts. I haven't tried the CT sensor at all yet, I was hoping it would be able to do both. Maybe I can test out whether it can do both functions at the same time.

 

[fafrd]

At $.10kwh that isn't even half what they cost at $400 each.

I only paid $275 for mine and the kWs I was generating during peak hours were valued at $0.50/kWh (and $0.30/kWh off-peak).

So the unit that is dead now saved me $540 to $760 over it’s short life and I have no regrets (learned an enormous deal).

Everything worked out well enough that I think I’m going to upgrade to Victron rather than trying to nurse these GTILs for increased longevity.

For learning, playing around, fantastic.

For Prime-Time, no (not yet, anyway)…

 

[fafrd]

I've got one and I'm limiting it to 200watts. I haven't tried the CT sensor at all yet, I was hoping it would be able to do both. Maybe I can test out whether it can do both functions at the same time.

Please do - IIRC, you need to choose either the fixed limit of the sensor limit…

 

[fafrd]

I already have one of the GTIL's.. but..

I've been contemplating one of these Legion Solar limiters and microinverter(s). Initial cost kind of similar to the GTIL for "usable wattage", but possibly better reliability.. who knows. One control box can control up to 32 of the microinverters (260w) Question is whether it's wifi limiter box actually works worth a darn, and the company is pretty spotty, but not any more spotty than the GTIL selling companies.

As many of these as you want for your desired wattage, hooked to a battery instead of solar panels.. $150 each

Pretty sure you cannot hook a Microinverter up directly to a battery…

Check the thread by ‘ncsolarelectric’…

And one of these for the "limiting" and control. $300

That limiter solution seems similar to what Hoymiles Microinverters offer, but I would have much higher confidence in the Hoymiles offering (especially since ncdolarelectric has proven it works).

Both solutions only work by throttling solar panel power output (though ncsolarelectric has designed an adapter for use with a battery).

 

[cs1234]

Pretty sure you cannot hook a Microinverter up directly to a battery…

Check the thread by ‘ncsolarelectric’…

That limiter solution seems similar to what Hoymiles Microinverters offer, but I would have much higher confidence in the Hoymiles offering (especially since ncdolarelectric has proven it works).

Both solutions only work by throttling solar panel power output (though ncsolarelectric has designed an adapter for use with a battery).

I'm pretty sure you can run a microinverter off a battery, but it might depend on the brand of microinverter, some of them probably react nicer about it than others. Read the thread here on the forum.

ncsolarelectric purchased an expensive 3rd party ct device, plus a hoymiles control center to throttle his hoymiles system.

The legion solar and gtil solutions cost less, aren't UL listed, and are less confidence inspiring for sure. The question is whether it would work and be cost effective.

 

[fafrd]

I'm pretty sure you can run a microinverter off a battery, but it might depend on the brand of microinverter, some of them probably react nicer about it than others. Read the thread here on the forum.

ncsolarelectric purchased an expensive 3rd party ct device, plus a hoymiles control center to throttle his hoymiles system.

The legion solar and gtil solutions cost less, aren't UL listed, and are less confidence inspiring for sure. The question is whether it would work and be cost effective.

You should read this thread: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/w...iy-enphase-and-hoymiles-microinverters.41541/

 

[cs1234]

Please do - IIRC, you need to choose either the fixed limit of the sensor limit…

Well the plot thickens. I went down there and ran some tests on my GTIL. It turns out, mine doesn't work at all for limiting using the CT sensor.

Here is what I found.

• CT sensor enabled and WATTS setting for battery set to anything, like 200 watts (detects load correctly on CT, shows correct wattage for CT sensor on screen)
  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to care, if there is anything more than 0 watts detected on my GTIL CT sensor, it ramps up to the full production that my battery can supply.. not good.​
• CT sensor enabled, but AMPS for battery setting limited to 1 amp
  Anything more than 0 watts detected on CT sensor, ramps up to AMP limit, what it's using as the voltage to amp calculation I don't know.. I'm running it on a 24v battery and on the 1 amp setting, it would supply 40 watts. 2 amp setting, 80 watts. these are ish settings, meaning 40ish.. 80ish.. It doesn't care what the actual wattage detected on the sensor is, it shows it, but ignores it and ramps up to the AMP limit for battery​
• CT sensor disabled but set for 200 watts battery limiting setting
  Correctly outputs around 200 watts.​
• CT sensor limiting only, everything else disabled
  It doesn't care, it ramps up to full production instantly upon detecting any watts, while showing the correct wattage from the CT sensor on the screen.​

It seems my GTIL is broken. It won't limit based on the CT sensor, regardless of properly detecting the number of watts on ct sensor line (verified by my amp clamp and using devices with known wattage requirements.

I wish I had another GTIL to verify mine is broken vs me doing something wrong with it.. but whatever.

 

[cs1234]

You should read this thread: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/w...iy-enphase-and-hoymiles-microinverters.41541/

I have read it before. It's a long one and doesn't dissuade me from thinking a battery can be hooked up to some MPPT controllers, including the ones built into microinverters. Would it be better to hook up a battery to something expecting a battery? Something that won't go wild trying to find an optimal point on an MPPT algo. I'm sure it would be better from an 'optimal' standpoint.

 

[fafrd]

Well the plot thickens. I went down there and ran some tests on my GTIL. It turns out, mine doesn't work at all for limiting using the CT sensor.

Here is what I found.

• CT sensor enabled and WATTS setting for battery set to anything, like 200 watts (detects load correctly on CT, shows correct wattage for CT sensor on screen)
  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to care, if there is anything more than 0 watts detected on my GTIL CT sensor, it ramps up to the full production that my battery can supply.. not good.​
• CT sensor enabled, but AMPS for battery setting limited to 1 amp
  Anything more than 0 watts detected on CT sensor, ramps up to AMP limit, what it's using as the voltage to amp calculation I don't know.. I'm running it on a 24v battery and on the 1 amp setting, it would supply 40 watts. 2 amp setting, 80 watts. these are ish settings, meaning 40ish.. 80ish.. It doesn't care what the actual wattage detected on the sensor is, it shows it, but ignores it and ramps up to the AMP limit for battery​
• CT sensor disabled but set for 200 watts battery limiting setting
  Correctly outputs around 200 watts.​
• CT sensor limiting only, everything else disabled
  It doesn't care, it ramps up to full production instantly upon detecting any watts, while showing the correct wattage from the CT sensor on the screen.​

It seems my GTIL is broken. It won't limit based on the CT sensor, regardless of properly detecting the number of watts on ct sensor line (verified by my amp clamp and using devices with known wattage requirements.

I wish I had another GTIL to verify mine is broken vs me doing something wrong with it.. but whatever.

Having the CT sensor installed backwards is the obvious explanation (since it sounds like you’ve checked to assure the sensor is on the same leg as the GTIL)…

 

[fafrd]

I have read it before. It's a long one and doesn't dissuade me from thinking a battery can be hooked up to some MPPT controllers, including the ones built into microinverters. Would it be better to hook up a battery to something expecting a battery? Something that won't go wild trying to find an optimal point on an MPPT algo. I'm sure it would be better from an 'optimal' standpoint.

Did you read the part where he explains the adapter he designed (and the reason it is required when hooking up a Microinverter to a battery))?

 

[cs1234]

Having the CT sensor installed backwards is the obvious explanation (since it sounds like you’ve checked to assure the sensor is on the same leg as the GTIL)…

I tried it both directions, the screen would show positive one direction and negative the other.. wattage reading correct either way, other than being +/-. I also tried it on another leg, for giggles. It would also read 0 watts correctly if not clamped around a cable, and the gtil wouldn't ramp up when it was at zero detected.

Maybe I need to cut dc power to it at some point to ensure it loses all settings in memory. It seems to "reboot" the logic portion of it every time it loses AC power, and everytime you save a setting, but you never know. I didn't feel like dropping off everything else that was connected to my DC bus, and I don't have the GTIL on a switch at the moment.

 

[cs1234]

Did you read the part where he explains the adapter he designed (and the reason it is required when hooking up a Microinverter to a battery))?

I saw him talk about it before. If you find the exact part in the thread where he mentions it, I'll read it again. Did you read the thread I linked to? It has somebody that mentions using a microinverter on a battery without problems, an enphase one I think.

 

[fafrd]

I saw him talk about it before. If you find the exact part in the thread where he mentions it, I'll read it again. Did you read the thread I linked to? It has somebody that mentions using a microinverter on a battery without problems, an enphase one I think.

I glanced at the thread you linked to but he seemed to be using a DC-DC converter between the battery and the Microinverter.

That would solve the issue in the same manner the adapter developed by ncsolarelectric does.

Something needs to limit the input current or there is a problem…

If you are interested in this subject suggest you send ncsolarelectric a PM or give him a call. He is very generous with his knowledge and has a professional background in power electronics…