Sunny Island and EG4 Powerpro help

[idoco]

I've been running the Sunny Island-5048 x 2 operating in split phase as master/slave for the last 10+ years and just upgraded to EG4 Powerpro batteries. With a single Sunny Island master connected to the Powerpro BMS the Sunny Island and battery communicate via the CAN bus and the battery charges fine.

The problem I'm having is that when running the system with the slave connected to the master, the slave is throwing a CAN bus error and goes into standby mode. The master continues to work fine. The master and slave are otherwise communicating over the CAN bus as the error on slave shows up on the master log.

The Poweredge supports SMA CAN protocol and is set to use the SMA CAN protocol. The Sunny Island is set to use Li-extBMS.

Anyone with experience with the Sunny Island have any suggestions?

 

[1201]

Did you ever figure this out?

 

[idoco]

Did you ever figure this out?

Not yet. SMA support responded to my service inquiry. But since the Powerpro is not on their "approved" list they can't troubleshoot.

EG4 has gotten back to me a few times. They are "checking into it" and will get back to me if they have any new info.

Until then I'm running it open loop using the VRLA profile.

 

[1201]

Not yet. SMA support responded to my service inquiry. But since the Powerpro is not on their "approved" list they can't troubleshoot.

EG4 has gotten back to me a few times. They are "checking into it" and will get back to me if they have any new info.

Until then I'm running it open loop using the VRLA profile.

Thanks. How is it working with the vrla profile? Is it pretty accurate? Is there any benefit to adding a shunt?

 

[idoco]

Thanks. How is it working with the vrla profile? Is it pretty accurate? Is there any benefit to adding a shunt?

The SOC for the SI and the Powerpro are within a couple percent. And the charger appears to be charging appropriately. Have not done a deep discharge yet so don't know how the SOC correspondence will hold up.

 

[1201]

Wow. That's great. Do you use the factory vrla settings?

 

[idoco]

Wow. That's great. Do you use the factory vrla settings?

I'm using the settings recommended by others in the forum. Basically 56V (2.33V/lead cell) for boost, full, and equalization charging. 54V (2.25V/lead cell) for float. IIRC the factory setting for charging is 57.6V (2.40V/lead cell).

 

[Hedges]

Are the two Sunny Islands plus the batteries are connected in series with SMA com RJ45 bus?
Do you have a terminator plug at each end of the bus?

 

[idoco]

Are the two Sunny Islands plus the batteries are connected in series with SMA com RJ45 bus?
Do you have a terminator plug at each end of the bus?

The Powerpro, SI master, and slave are connected via the ComSync (CANbus) as follows:

Powerpro BMS CAN port -->Master ComSyncIn
Master ComSyncOut-->Slave ComSyncIn
Slave ComSynOut has RJ45 terminator plug

The CANbus on the SI side is terminated at the Slave ComSyncOut. There is no terminator on the Powerpro side since there is not an extra CANbus port on the Poweredge.

There are separate RS485 ports on the Powerpro for connecting additional batteries. But this does not appear to be the CANbus.

 

[idoco]

Are the two Sunny Islands plus the batteries are connected in series with SMA com RJ45 bus?
Do you have a terminator plug at each end of the bus?

Looking at the SMA CAN specs...

The RS485 and CAN both communicate via the ComSync bus. Even though the SI is only using the CANbus for the BMS communication, it might also need the RS485 bus terminated at the battery side (see below). Will give that a try if nothing else works.

 

[Hedges]

RS485 is electrically separated, won't affect CAN.
It looks like CAN requires terminator both ends (as does RS-485).
I don't recall if both buses use same model terminator. But would think so, same impedance.

 

[Hedges]

The CANbus on the SI side is terminated at the Slave ComSyncOut. There is no terminator on the Powerpro side since there is not an extra CANbus port on the Poweredge.

Then I hope Powerpro has its own terminator built in.

I use SIC and SIC-PB (daughter card) with Sunny Island. A terminator goes in SIC-PB if at end of bus.

 

[idoco]

So now this is starting to make some sense. Based on bus specs of the battery and the Sunny Island (see my previous post), the ComSync port on the Sunny Island contains two separate buses: CAN (pins 4/5) and Sync (pins 3/6). The CAN bus is used for BMS communication. The Sync bus isn't used for CAN, but is used for master-slave communication.

Normally the Sunny Island master and slave each have a terminator plugged into the shared RJ45 port for the two buses (see picture below). But in order to connect the battery communication cable into the Sunny Island master, the terminator has to be removed. The termination that used to occur in the master now has to occur in the battery.

On the battery side only the CAN bus is terminated (internally). The Sync bus is not terminated at the battery end. (Pins 3/6 on the battery bus are used for the emergency stop function.)

The Sunny Island slave still expects the Sync bus to be terminated "upstream". The actual error on the Sunny Island is "Slave does not receive a Syncpuls". It goes into Standby mode when it is not terminated.

So I'll need to terminate the Sync bus on the battery side/upstream from the master. Which should be as easy as wiring a 120 ohm resistor between the wires for pins 3/6 in the Cat5 cable coming from the Sunny Island to the BMS???

To be continued....

 

[idoco]

Then I hope Powerpro has its own terminator built in.

... and that solved the problem!!!

The terminator for the CAN bus is built into the battery. But the terminator for the Sync bus needs to be added between pins 3 and 6 of the Cat 5 cable (see below).

Now I just need to get out the solder and heat shrink?

 

[ChrisG]

Does anyone know if this will work with other EG4 batteries and SMA SIs?

 

[Hedges]

The Poweredge supports SMA CAN protocol and is set to use the SMA CAN protocol. The Sunny Island is set to use Li-extBMS.

This works?!! Great!
Let us know how it goes. CC tried to use SOK server rack with Sunny Island and gave up.
Are the various SoC based switching and generator start functions of SI available?


The PowerPro specs for current and brief overload are a prefect match to a single SI. 300A 3 seconds, about 15kW, supports SI's 11kW surge.
"Optional battery parallel kit" - one PowerPro per SI would be ideal.

 

[idoco]

This works?!! Great!

It's actually the resistor that I pulled from an extra Sunny Island terminator I had lying around.

CC tried to use SOK server rack with Sunny Island and gave up.

Signature Solar carries a communication hub that bridges between their batteries and multiple inverters (including Sunny Islands). Don't know if it communicates with the SOK BMS on the battery side.

EG4 LiFePOWER4 Communications Hub

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL

signaturesolar.com

I actually bought one since the original Powerpro literature didn't have SMA as a supported protocol CAN protocol. In the end it did have SMA CAN support so I ended up not needing the hub. If CC wants to try it he can contact me.

Are the various SoC based switching and generator start functions of SI available?

I don't have a generator or use any of the relays so I wouldn't be able to answer. Since the SI is getting the SOC straight from the BMS I don't see any reason why they would not be available.

 

[SignatureSolarJess]

It's actually the resistor that I pulled from an extra Sunny Island terminator I had lying around.

Signature Solar carries a communication hub that bridges between their batteries and multiple inverters (including Sunny Islands). Don't know if it communicates with the SOK BMS on the battery side.

EG4 LiFePOWER4 Communications Hub

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL

signaturesolar.com

I actually bought one since the original Powerpro literature didn't have SMA as a supported protocol CAN protocol. In the end it did have SMA CAN support so I ended up not needing the hub. If CC wants to try it he can contact me.


I don't have a generator or use any of the relays so I wouldn't be able to answer. Since the SI is getting the SOC straight from the BMS I don't see any reason why they would not be available.

No, it's only compatible with EG4 batteries. You can use the EG4 comm hub when using the Solark inverter with EG4 batteries but not the other way around. I hope this helps!

 

[Orlando]

I've been running the Sunny Island-5048 x 2 operating in split phase as master/slave for the last 10+ years and just upgraded to EG4 Powerpro batteries. With a single Sunny Island master connected to the Powerpro BMS the Sunny Island and battery communicate via the CAN bus and the battery charges fine.

How are you charging the LiFePo4 battery? Do you have an AC Couple setup or are you using an MPPT Charge Controller? I have two SI6048 and I am trying to find out how that battery or a similar LiFePo4 battery will work in an AC Couple setup.

 

[Hedges]

See page 16 for BYD battery quantity to support various number of Sunny Island. That would be for AC coupled systems, able to supply power and accept charging, while doing frequency-watts management.

You could try to scale specs of the BYD battery to those of a different brand. But voltage setpoints requested by BMS would be important to leave headroom to absorb the kW for a few seconds.

https://files.sma.de/downloads/SI-LiIon-TI-en-48.pdf