Tesla switching go LiFePO4

[Horsefly]

I couldn't find this posted here already. I apologize if someone already posted it.

Although not yet confirmed, it looks like Tesla is switching to LFP for their US standard range Model 3 and Model Y cars produced in Freemont, CA. There's also some rumor that their gigafactories will be changing to work different form factor batteries, which may be related. What will this do for everyone's ability to find LFP cells in the US? Make it better? Worse?

https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/2...batteries-for-standard-range-model-3-model-y/

 

[iamrich]

Should make LFP cheaper in the long run, but the supply is already constrained, so short term it might make it harder for smaller manufacturers to get material.

 

[chrisski]

I thought LIthium Iron Phosphate was not capable of high C rate discharges that EVs need. I thought they needed discharges of close to 6C. If this is true, I don’t think the chemistry would be the same between Tesla and the batteries we use.

 

[Horsefly]

I thought LIthium Iron Phosphate was not capable of high C rate discharges that EVs need. I thought they needed discharges of close to 6C. If this is true, I don’t think the chemistry would be the same between Tesla and the batteries we use.

I don't know where I read it, but I think Tesla is already using all LFP for the cars they manufacture / sell in China. If so, it must work, and they know how to do it. In fact, that experience may be why they are making the switch here in the U.S.

 

[mrzed001]

The Chinese Tesla Model 3 already built with CATL prismatic LiFePO4 cells. That is not new. Here it is already tested in the EU.
Also CATL goal is to make this batteries last for 1,2 million miles.

The big news is that Tesla started to import this CATL cells into USA. To use them in the Fremont facility for the Model Y.

And I am afraid it will boost the price of the prismatic cells ... again.
After Model 3 the LFP prices go up 30-40%.
I am afraid it can boost another 20+% on the price.

 

[nifty-stuff.com]

I'm glad to see this discussion here (came looking specifically for it).

My main question: Why does it seem there is ZERO discussion on charge cycles with Tesla using LFP?

Is it just a function of it being a moot-point because the rest of the car will be dead by then?

Also, I don't think I've seen any mention of safety improvements with a switch to LFP?

Any ideas why these two bits of pretty significant differences are left out of most discussions?

 

[mrzed001]

I'm glad to see this discussion here (came looking specifically for it).

My main question: Why does it seem there is ZERO discussion on charge cycles with Tesla using LFP?

Is it just a function of it being a moot-point because the rest of the car will be dead by then?

Also, I don't think I've seen any mention of safety improvements with a switch to LFP?

Any ideas why these two bits of pretty significant differences are left out of most discussions?

I think mainly because it is so new even for Tesla. And it is (was) a regional thing.
Also I think Tesla does not want current orders to be recalled by users willing to wait for the LFP version.
I would wait for it. Here users already testing them (fastcharge speed, distance, ...).
Even the car build quality seems better.

 

[A.Justice]

I thought LIthium Iron Phosphate was not capable of high C rate discharges that EVs need. I thought they needed discharges of close to 6C. If this is true, I don’t think the chemistry would be the same between Tesla and the batteries we use.

I would assume they could modify the capacity to voltage ratio to get what they need from LiFePO4. Either use higher voltages to lower amp draw, or more cells in parallel to increase the C rate.

 

[chrisski]

I would assume they could modify the capacity to voltage ratio to get what they need from LiFePO4

I am not an engineer, but I am certainly a novice. I'm sure they did something like that.

I knew lithium chemistry like LTOs had been used they had a high C rate, like 6C. Most LiFePO4 I have seen like discharge rates of 1C, but the small 25 amp cells are 3C, so I guess 6C for LTOs is not a huge difference form LiFePO4 with 3C.

Some of the LTO round cells purchased from Ali are supposed to be second life batteries from EVs that get new shrink wrap put on them and sent out as storage.

 

[curiouscarbon]

My main question: Why does it seem there is ZERO discussion on charge cycles with Tesla using LFP?

the improved safety and cycle life characteristics of LFP chemistry make it extremely appealing to me for this reason. i guess not everyone is aware that LFP can achieve very long life cycles.

people talk about million mile batteries for EV.

LFP is a candidate.

lower range is the downside. energy density.

Any ideas why these two bits of pretty significant differences are left out of most discussions?

talking about improved cycle life of LFP would cause some to realize the relative inferiority of the currently shipping chemistry, cycle longevity wise.
one reason, absolutely not saying it’s the real reason.

bring on LFP EV in US!

 

[NwCali]

I thought Tesla was saying they would have a $25,000 ev this year and use some sort of battery that looks like a small soda can?

One thing is for sure, if Tesla is doing it then Washington is against it and they will make it harder of Tesla. Which could affect us all.

 

[sunshine]

Also, I don't think I've seen any mention of safety improvements with a switch to LFP?

Tesla Marketing just needs to find a way to promote the safety of LiFePO4 without denigrating the old chemistry too much!

This LiFePO4 switch was in the news 12 months ago!

 

[mrzed001]

Tesla Marketing just needs to find a way to promote the safety of LiFePO4 without denigrating the old chemistry too much!

This LiFePO4 switch was in the news 12 months ago!

Tesla has marketing department ?
Not sure. They do no marketing, no TV spots ... The cars sell itself

 

[A.Justice]

Tesla has marketing department ?
Not sure. They do no marketing, no TV spots ... The cars sell itself

Now that I think about it, I've never seen a Tesla or Amazon commercial.

 

[sunshine]

Not sure. They do no marketing, no TV spots ... The cars sell itself

Just shows how brilliant Musk is!
Being able to sell so much and people unable to identify the spiel.

 

[mrzed001]

Now that I think about it, I've never seen a Tesla or Amazon commercial.

You do not need a TV advertisement to show how good your products are .... when you send your used car to space

 

[Steve_S]

LOL, some funny stuff here....
As a Tesla shareholder for quite some time I watch CAREFULLY & CAUTIOUSLY all Tesla news and related materials.
YES, Tesla will be using BYD Blade Cells and CATL CTP class cells which are Hi C-Rate Capable and Cold-Weather rated (they are doped).
These are to be used in "Normal Range" models and the new lower cost model being prepped.
They will not be making 4680 Cylindrical Format LFP for their EV's. Tesla will keep 4680 for Li-Ion. * Other companies will be making 4680 FORMAT cells but not with Tesla Chemistry unless under contract (They have one with Panasonic and working on others).

There is other battery info coming related to Tesla & the Manfacturing of them with partnerships. LFP production is also coming to places, starting 2022.

 

[chrisski]

As a Tesla shareholder for quite some time I watch CAREFULLY & CAUTIOUSLY all Tesla news and related materials.

Tesla is one of those stocks I consider irrational and really scares me about the stock market. Especially since it is now part of the SP500, one of the top 5 that make up over 80%.

Has Tesla ever turned a profit?

To me the only reason the price is up there is because people like to feel good about investing in green stocks like Tesla and hope he colonized Mars. To me its GameStop stock.

 

[A.Justice]

Has Tesla ever turned a profit?

I assume that they're going to operate like Uber did. Operate at a loss to put other companies out of business, and flood your product on the market. Then at some point they'll start charging money to charge up your car, or updates, or whatever.