The quote that forced me to go rogue.
- Thread starter Osmethne
- Start date
Zwy
Solar Wizard
I own a mini storage and wanted to expand for over 2 years but could not get a cement contractor lined up. What I have found is contractors have so much work, they just start throwing out outrageous prices and the response from the prospect is "When can you start?"
This creates a loop of ever increasing price increases.
This creates a loop of ever increasing price increases.
Osmethne
Solar Enthusiast
I feel like that's the case with a lot of trades. I get the impression that for whatever reason we had a massive amount of people becoming tradesmen of one sort or another and then everyone stopped going into that line of work and now all those tradesmen are retiring.
Similar to your concrete situation I had to get my air conditioner replaced a few years ago. I had quotes around $20k for a 5 ton system!
I ended buying a Mr Cool 5 ton system and installing it myself. $4k for the unit and maybe another $1k in parts and tools.
schmism
Solar Addict
That $3200 is the cost of the stuff supplied by Ironridge.. You still have to source a crapton of 2 or 3" pipe and another crapton of concrete for footings or ground ancers. So yea 3" galv tubeing is likely to run the same cost as the materials for the racking from Ironridge.
Also seems like the labor quote for $22k at $100 an hr... is 223 hrs.... so 4 guy crew, 56hrs or a week to install? seems a bit high but not out of left field crazy
Vigo
Solar Addict
I teach automotive and i would say that is a problem with the trades in general, people assume they are low-skilled low-paying industries and dissuade young people away from it. Most people who end up doing it seem to have some familiarity through friends or family. Hardly anyone truly 'takes it upon themself' to go learn something they have zero context of, and schools aren't giving it to them!
On the plus side, i think automotive at least is currently experiencing a bit of a rubber band effect where it's been so understaffed for so long (at least, of people who understand ohm's law for example) that the money is finally flowing in a rush to get people into the industry. So it's a good time to get in, especially if you understand electricity. But i also get the impression several other trades are ramping up even faster.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
I used to be a guest speaker at the local high school 'careers' program.
I would print up pictures of construction sites, and be sure to include sites with both guys and gals like the highway paving jobs, I would talk about construction and engineering for a while, with the pictures handed out to be passed around the room.
When I felt like the class were just starting to lose interest I would switch the conversation from what each trade does to.."so these electricans you see here are earning 60 dollars per hour" and this paving crew (mostly women) are making 50-plus per hour and working lots of overtime at $75... and these crane operators are making $70...this mining site in the arctic is paying everyone you see in the pictures 120,000 plus a year and they only work two weeks a month" yeah then every kid sat up and starting asking questions!
I feel the schools focus too much on computer/high tech industries and don't realize that mining & construction trades are well paying jobs in high demand. Paid for my life and family without any hicups, met a lot of good people and had some fun too.
Zwy
Solar Wizard
My specialty is air conditioning systems on off road equipment and trucks. I've done this for 27 years now, not only with a fixed shop location but also with a mobile unit where I go onsite. I've been out on the road the past 4 days. My season starts late March and runs until fall harvest/tillage is done, usually 2nd week of November.
I gave up finding an employee to take over. I work many weeks over 100 hours during heat waves. I make over $100/hour. I talk to young people about a career in this line of work but as soon as they hear 100 hour weeks, late night service calls when equipment is parked for the night (longest service call I went on left the shop at 5 am and returned to the shop at 1 am) they aren't interested. I don't understand it, 10 grand a week is some serious money.
I could raise my prices but the customers have been with me most of the 27 years. They were the reason for my success. Most are like family. 4th of July I hold a big bbq for friends and those customers. It's a relationship built of trust and friendship. We all have a great time. They all tell me they don't want to ever see me retire as they won't be able to find someone that can do what I do.
The problem with contractors is they might only do a job for someone once. So they never develop a relationship like carpenters did in the old days like my grandfather.
Zwy
Solar Wizard
Automotive repair industry is a dead end. Cars are now disposable.
I saw this video from Uncle Tony the other day. I agree with his assessment of modern vehicles. As for retrofitting vehicles, the feds will not allow it.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
Zwy
Solar Wizard
I went on vacation for 2.5 weeks. The second week my phone blew up when it hit over 100F here with high humidity.
I called everyone back and told them I was on vacation. They said enjoy yourself, this will wait until you get back, you earned a vacation.
I'm at the point where I might just become a snowbird over winter and work summers fixing air conditioning systems 4 days a week. I always kid everyone I will work four 16 hour says instead of five 16 hour days.
I just don't get the younger generation. I would have jumped at the chance to take over something like I have here when I was a young lad.
Nobodybusiness
Collecting the leftovers of the Great Sky Reactor.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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San Jose, the automotive classes are quite impacted. Lots of youths think they want to do that.
My step son while in high school took a training program at CCOC. He wanted automotive, but that was full and he was enrolled in HVAC. He wasn't interested, and dropped out.
I told him the work is essentially the same as auto mechanics, but pays maybe 2x to 4x as much.
Lots of auto shop workers around here making minimum wage. Lots of certifications and they might make a bit more. There is probably a market for skilled mechanics that pays more, but I'd guess it is small. Much of it is low skilled. Wheel alignment, for instance, involves slapping reflectors on the rims, rolling back and forth in front of a camera, and then turning a screw until the big needle in the computer screen is in the middle.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
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It's not just the physical work and number of hours worked of the trades that limits interest. It's the culture of them as well. Think about the differences in environment between a smaller "trade" business and a larger corp. One of them has an HR department and employee handbook advising you to ask peoples preferred pronouns, the other has fox news playing on a tv in the corner all day.
You basically have the cultural/political divide limiting the trades labor pool. Trade jobs have an image in our country (right or wrong), and that image limits the candidates. You combine that, with the natural tendency of women to not work in grueling, outdoor, dirty jobs that require physical strength.. and there ya go.. very limited labor pool.
I'm in the same spot as you guys, it's hard to find workers for my "trade"ish business. I've even had multiple flat-earthers working for me in the past.. I take what I can get. Boy oh boy, was going through Covid fun.. having to balance the rules being put upon me to avoid law suits from both sides.
You basically have the cultural/political divide limiting the trades labor pool. Trade jobs have an image in our country (right or wrong), and that image limits the candidates. You combine that, with the natural tendency of women to not work in grueling, outdoor, dirty jobs that require physical strength.. and there ya go.. very limited labor pool.
I'm in the same spot as you guys, it's hard to find workers for my "trade"ish business. I've even had multiple flat-earthers working for me in the past.. I take what I can get. Boy oh boy, was going through Covid fun.. having to balance the rules being put upon me to avoid law suits from both sides.
BuffaloTrace
Solar Enthusiast
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The pay isn't what it used to be. The industries that can afford high pay are having an easier time finding tradesman and workers. Many businesses can't afford the pay it requires to keep someone working 40 hours a week and that same worker being able to afford to get done all the stuff that they can't do because their time is occupied in the business. For whatever reason or why that is I'm uncertain. Perhaps it's cost of running a business now adays, and even with all the short cuts and easy cheating at hand, the reliable employee is hard to find because their time may actually just be better spent doing other tasks than working a job to make money.
Zwy
Solar Wizard
Not quite, that is taking readings and the commodity alignment where most shops set toe only.
Fixing bump steer, correcting road crown drift, setting caster to improve straight line performance, toe in/toe out on turns, etc. are much more than the commodity alignment.
That takes knowing geometry, theory, and actually knowing something.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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Shops here like Wheel Works give me a printout and take the job.
They do their work, and I see them turning a screw.
Then they give me a new printout, say it had been way out but they fixed it.
I read the numbers and say some are now within spec, but others are still out.
They say they don't have the parts needed to adjust those, but if I come back and bring the parts then they will do it.
I think I once saw a tool for measuring caster, camber & toe, but can't find it now.
Can you recommend one for DIY?
They do their work, and I see them turning a screw.
Then they give me a new printout, say it had been way out but they fixed it.
I read the numbers and say some are now within spec, but others are still out.
They say they don't have the parts needed to adjust those, but if I come back and bring the parts then they will do it.
I think I once saw a tool for measuring caster, camber & toe, but can't find it now.
Can you recommend one for DIY?
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you my friend, have captured the essence of what’s wrong with the job market in America today.
That’s in the ballpark with what I was quoted and bought about 8 years ago. I knew I could do it myself a lot cheaper but I paid for a crew of young guys to do all the roof work. I hate heights. They also handled everything from the local building permit to getting the system approved for grid tie operation and brokering my SREC shares. They just deduct their commissions and send me a check every six months.