The vaccinated are more likely to catch Covid

[tigerwillow1]

Sorry but firsthand reports are somewhat useless. The doctor decided medicine was hopeless and told the patient to give up and die at home? Really? Then this drug which is supposedly only useful early in the infection miraculously healed him? Errrr, ok, sounds legitimate to me. Especially the part where you referred to a third hand at best report as firsthand.

What a pile of warped misinformation! Is this how carefully you understand the studies you refer to?

I said: He and the family decided it was hopeless and he checked out of the hospital wanting to die at home. HE=The patient.
The report was first hand from the doctor to me. It is second hand to the forum post.

 

[Shale MacGregor]

What a pile of warped misinformation! Is this how carefully you understand the studies you refer to?

I said: He and the family decided it was hopeless and he checked out of the hospital wanting to die at home. HE=The patient.
The report was first hand from the doctor to me. It is second hand to the forum post.

Often when people write sentences they are not precise and you have to use context clues. When saying " He and the family decided it was hopeless" I inferred you meant the doctor because if you meant the patient you would typically say "He and his family". It is very odd phrasing and pretty telling that you would focus on that as a way to undermine my comprehension skills and an excuse to ignore the rest of my points.

The doctor was not at the house to witness everything so yes, second hand, he then potentially violated HIPAA and told you, third hand. What a world you live in where someone can tell you a story and you claim to have first hand knowledge of it. This is how rumor and anecdotes get treated as fact. My wife told me that her friends cat was sick, her friend prayed for the cat and later my wife visited and saw the cat well. Now since she told me I have firsthand knowledge that the cat was healed by prayer.... Yikes.

Being a medically experienced fellow Im sure this highly trained doctor discounted the percentage chance that some patients recover eventually, especially when they aren't on a ventilator which allows them to go home, and instead immediately used this single data point of a miracle drug to start telling all of his patients, friends and family about it.

Ivermectin might work! It might be the answer! The time for it to be used is when it has been proven to work and have clearly defined and measured side effects, not because some people tried it and others ignore a study on the required dosage being 35x higher, ignoring plasma concentrations.

 

[eXodus]

Did you know if there is a safe treatment available, the vaccines are no longer legal under the EUA ?
The "emergency use authorization" that allowed Pfizer and Moderna to rush to market untested mRNA vaccines
was under the condition that there were NO AVAILABLE SAFE TREATMENTS.

you know that there are other countries with different set of laws out there?
Many countries authorized it full from the beginning. BTW mRNA is old news, nothing untest about the technology, we have animal vaccines for a decade or two based on mRNA. Your cat or dog probably got a rabbies mRNA vaccine. And nobody complained.

In a pandemic with people dying, how moral is it to give a placebo instead of the real deal when that person might die ?
People who insist on double blind studies haven't thought that through.

Shale : Did you really just try to claim that moderna and Pfizer we're untested before eua was granted ?

#1 : these "vaccines" don't qualify to be labeled vaccines. They only last a few months.
#2 : they were developed and "tested" in less than 1 year. We do not know the long-term effects of mRNA vaccines.

Since we got Ivermectin since the 1970s we could have used that for more human disease for 50 years.
But there is not patent - no way to make big money, so nobody puts it through trials.

With Ivermectin, Aspirin, Penicillin a bunch of herbs/diet you can treat almost everything in animal medicine.
Why? because owners of animals/ pets are notorious cheap, so in you got actually a working market. With thousands of competitors. While human healthcare is sadly politics and highly consolidated.

 

[BMcL]

I think the idea is to test for effectiveness. Not just side effects. What could go wrong?

India is a 3rd world country with awful unsanitary living conditions. Yet they have 5 to 10% of the covid deaths we have.
How is that possible ? They use ivermectin to treat Covid.
And ever since their success using ivermectin, the developed countries have been trying to get them to stop using it.

Media mum on India’s Ivermectin success story; El Salvador offers it free to citizens

by WorldTribune Staff, September 19, 2021 Big Media is continuing its blackout on how India has put Ivermectin to use in the treatment and prevention of Covid-19 to great success. Meanwhile, the go…

www.worldtribune.com

 

[BMcL]

Ivermectin might work! It might be the answer! The time for it to be used is when it has been proven to work and have clearly defined and measured side effects, not because some people tried it and others ignore a study on the required dosage being 35x higher, ignoring plasma concentrations.

Why do you keep spewing lies about dosage ? The dosage is 24 to 36mg per day for covid patients.
No one is killing themselves with ivermectin overdoses.
And why are you ignoring Dr Kory's peer-reviewed paper that quotes from 18 world studies on Ivermectin ?
You don't have to take it if you don't want to !

 

[Shale MacGregor]

Why do you keep spewing lies about dosage ? The dosage is 24 to 36mg per day for covid patients.
No one is killing themselves with ivermectin overdoses.
And why are you ignoring Dr Kory's peer-reviewed paper that quotes from 18 world studies on Ivermectin ?
You don't have to take it if you don't want to !

Actually, I was replying to your link to a paper, that used as source 15, the primary evidence for efficacy, source 15 was a study where the in vitro testing done to cells infected with covid-19 were subjected to 35x the standard dosage.

And why am I ignoring Dr Kory's paper? Because it has been retracted, I wonder why that happened?

Clinical and Scientific Rationale for the "MATH+" Hospital Treatment Protocol for COVID-19 - PubMed

In December 2019, COVID-19, a severe respiratory illness caused by the new coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) emerged in Wuhan, China. The greatest impact that COVID-19 had was on intensive care units (ICUs), given that approximately 20% of hospitalized cases developed acute respiratory failure...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Hedges]

Reading the following article, despite what author tries to tell us, seems to me it doesn't show that breakthrough 2nd infections after natural immunity are more common than breakthrough 1st infections after vaccination.

Also, natural immunity may not last as long as vaccine induced immunity from a 2-dose vaccine. But they may last longer than from a 1-dose vaccine. A second dose after infection (either re-infection or vaccination) may provide more protection than does "the best vaccine". I think we've seen reports showing very high protection from one dose of mRNA after recovery from Covid.

"There are provinces in Iran where it seems there have been more COVID cases than there are people. In other words, it’s possible that in some of the worst-hit regions, a whole lot of people caught COVID twice.

That’s not just bad news for Iran’s 84 million people. It’s also bad news for, say, the 3 million people in Mississippi and the 5 million in Alabama. Experts believe Iran is vulnerable to reinfection because it’s under-vaccinated and has relied too much on fragile natural antibodies from past infection to protect people."


"It’s increasingly clear that the natural antibodies resulting from past infection by SARS-CoV-2 fade after around six months. The best vaccines, by contrast, hold up much longer."

Iran’s Herd Immunity Flop Is Very Bad News for These U.S. States

Andi Rice/Bloomberg via GettyThere are provinces in Iran where it seems there have been more COVID cases than there are people. In other words, it’s possible that in some of the worst-hit regions, a whole lot of people caught COVID twice.That’s not just bad news for Iran’s 84 million people...

news.yahoo.com

That report didn't say how high about 100% of population was the total infection count. If total was 200%, could easily say natural immunity showed no effectivness.

The following shows 0.25% reinfection of a group over 9 months. Doesn't provide infection rate for a "covid naïve" cohort, but if infection of the unvaccinated was 10% of population during that period, would seem natural immunity was 97.5% effective.

"our aim in this study was to evaluate the rate of re-infection over a 9-month period after the onset of COVID-19 epidemic in Shahroud, a city located in northeastern Iran."

Considering how the pandemic has peaked and then fallen to low levels over later months, "10%" may not be a good estimate of infection rate for non-identified control group

It doesn't qualify as a double-blind study:

"On the other hand, in our study, 30% of re-infection cases were from the medical staff who were constantly exposed to the virus and this could be a reason for re-infection. In contrast, re-infection in other patients can be reduced due to adhering safety protocols and the fear created by the previous encounter."

COVID-19 re-infection in Shahroud, Iran: a follow-up study | Epidemiology & Infection | Cambridge Core

COVID-19 re-infection in Shahroud, Iran: a follow-up study - Volume 149

www.cambridge.org

The "article" said natural herd immunity doesn't work, but this research paper said it does:

"According to the findings of this study, relative immunity develops following COVID-19 infection, nevertheless there is a small possibility of re-infection in people recovering from COVID-19"

 

[Freep]

 

[Freep]

And your source is Big Pharma telling you this ? Have you read the evidence ? Of course you haven't.

This is conspiratorial talk. You might as well tell me about alien abductions and bigfoot.

 

[grizzzman]

This is conspiratorial talk. You might as well tell me about alien abductions and bigfoot.

Now here is a person with an open mind.

 

[Hedges]

<graph of infection rates, vaccinated vs. unvaccinated>

700 cases per week per 100,000
Just 3 more years until we reach herd immunity!

For those who fail to develop long-lasting natural immunity from the first exposure, may I recommend a natural "booster" dose?

 

[time2roll]

For those who fail to develop long-lasting natural immunity from the first exposure, may I recommend a natural "booster" dose?

Yes so the unvaccinated should attempt to catch covid-19 every 6 to 12 months to avoid the disease through natural immunity

 

[Freep]

Now here is a person with an open mind.

When conspiracy theorists are dismissed and ignored they always whine about people "not having an open mind".

Claims of big pharma stopping the use of a drug that big pharma manufactures is simply nutso. But even so I've read a lot of studies on Ivermectin and I have found, much to my disappointment, that ivermectin is great for one thing, getting government grants to do studies for use with covid-19.

If it actually worked, there would be a ton of well respected medical research facilities with positive results.

But by all means keep believing in the flat earth "big pharma" conspiracy.

 

[BMcL]

Claims of big pharma stopping the use of a drug that big pharma manufactures is simply nutso.

But by all means keep believing in the flat earth "big pharma" conspiracy.

Sounds like this is written by Pfizer LOL
Why would a large corporation want to discredit a cheap generic drug when it stands in their way of making billions ?

 

[time2roll]

Sounds like this is written by Pfizer LOL
Why would a large corporation want to discredit a cheap generic drug when it stands in their way of making billions ?

Because if proven not to work as well as claimed, the company could be bankrupt. Back to the Warp Speed testing.
If ivermectin was a slam dunk, the tests would have shown as much. The hospitals would be using it. The truth is out there once you are willing to see it.

 

[BMcL]

If ivermectin was a slam dunk, the tests would have shown as much. The hospitals would be using it. The truth is out there once you are willing to see it.

I have a son who supervises the Critical Care Unit of a hospital in Western KY.
He and some other doctors wanted to give ivermectin a try and see how it performed.
THEY WERE STOPPED. Doctors are not being allowed to use their own judgement.
You act smart and pretend to know this topic . You don't have a clue.

 

[time2roll]

Of course they were stopped by the owner/managers of the hospital until the testing is complete and provides good results.
Otherwise the hospital is on the hook for all that goes wrong.

Why are these successful tests taking so long?

 

[BMcL]

Of course they were stopped by the owner/managers of the hospital until the testing is complete and provides good results.
Otherwise the hospital is on the hook for all that goes wrong.

Why are these successful tests taking so long?

Then why are patients begging for it and being denied ? I can't imagine being so thick........

Dr. Pierre Kory Testifies Before the Senate

Dr. Pierre Kory from the FLCCC Alliance testifies to the senate committee headed by Senator Ron Johnson (WI) about Ivermectin, early treatmet of Covid-19, and the I-MASK+ protocol. This video has bee...

odysee.com

 

[grizzzman]

When conspiracy theorists are dismissed and ignored they always whine about people "not having an open mind".

Claims of big pharma stopping the use of a drug that big pharma manufactures is simply nutso. But even so I've read a lot of studies on Ivermectin and I have found, much to my disappointment, that ivermectin is great for one thing, getting government grants to do studies for use with covid-19.

If it actually worked, there would be a ton of well respected medical research facilities with positive results.

But by all means keep believing in the flat earth "big pharma" conspiracy.

Thank you for your point of view. Why the what appears to be name calling "Flat Earth"

 

[time2roll]

Same as the rest of the world waiting for the vaccine approval. The initial tests worked and was granted emergency use. Another six months of review they were fully approved.

Maybe there is an ivermectin trail you can volunteer to participate?