Total Newbie Starting from Scratch

[The_Kobayashi_Vroom]

Hi all. My name is Amanda - and this board is super overwhelming to me - BUT - I am eager to learn all I can. We are in the process of building a skoolie out of a 2011 Bluebird that we will be powering on solar and at least 1 propane appliance. Our heat at this time we plan on using a cubic mini stove. We have plenty of time in our planning - so I have no need to rush or cut corners. Our long-term plan will be to have our skoolie sitting on land off-the-grid, but not before doing a bit of traveling first. Things that I am working on figuring out are powering:

• Maxxair Fan
• Fridge
• LED Lights
• Tankless Water heater (could end up doing this propane - we have not bought it yet)
• Washing Machine
• Small Dryer
• Various Kitchen Appliances
• iPhone/iPad chargers
• Laptop and WiFi for an audiobooth
• Hairdryer
• Composting Toilet Vent Fan
• Water Pump (for fresh water tank)
• Window AC (when the fan will not cut it)
• Small water pump for a hydroponic garden

I have the book already - a recommendation from Reddit. I am thinking about just going with doing the Off-grid King recommendation setup and following that plan: https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/the-off-grid-king-power-anything.html

I'd love to hear if that is a terrible idea or if it might be best to do with my very very limited experience. I'm still learning all of the terminology and so honestly a lot of the jargon at the moment is like looking at a foreign language.

Thanks!

Amanda

 

[FilterGuy]

The solar king is a nice set-up. (See my diagram for it below)

In order to know if the Solar King meets your needs, you will need to do a little work to further flesh out your energy needs. To do that you will need to do an energy assessment/audit. Your list of devices is a great start, but now you need to put some energy and power numbers to the devices.

There are various online tools for this but I like to use this resource:

System Energy Audit and Sizing Spread Sheet

To get the spreadsheet, click on the orange button at the top of this page. This sheet is intended to help you plan your system. Fill it out down to the last decimal place, look at the results..... and then make your best guess;) Notes...

diysolarforum.com

Since the build is in the planning stages you will have to make some guesses on things, but be as accurate as you can. This will not only help you understand the size system you will need, but it will also help you understand where the energy hogs are and how you might be able to reduce needs.

The Solar King:




Note: The diagram above shows a fust before the charge controller. No fuse is really needed there. However, I would advise putting a disconnect right before each controller. The disconnect should disconnect both the positive and the negative. Some people use two-pole breakers as a disconnect switch.

 

[Delmar]

For your water and space heating needs it would be an interesting comparison for a heat pump water heater (HPWH) AO Smith example. Most are 240V because of the heating element that can be disabled. Will be cheaper than propane.

For warm weather usage vent to the inside for free air conditioning. For cool weather usage vent to the outside.

Interesting unit from SANCO2

 

[The_Kobayashi_Vroom]

For your water and space heating needs it would be an interesting comparison for a heat pump water heater (HPWH) AO Smith example. Most are 240V because of the heating element that can be disabled. Will be cheaper than propane.

For warm weather usage vent to the inside for free air conditioning. For cool weather usage vent to the outside.

Interesting unit from SANCO2

Thanks, I'll definitely look at this!

 

[The_Kobayashi_Vroom]

For your water and space heating needs it would be an interesting comparison for a heat pump water heater (HPWH) AO Smith example. Most are 240V because of the heating element that can be disabled. Will be cheaper than propane.

For warm weather usage vent to the inside for free air conditioning. For cool weather usage vent to the outside.

Interesting unit from SANCO2

I've never heard of that. I'm going to check it out! Thank you.

 

[The_Kobayashi_Vroom]

The solar king is a nice set-up. (See my diagram for it below)

In order to know if the Solar King meets your needs, you will need to do a little work to further flesh out your energy needs. To do that you will need to do an energy assessment/audit. Your list of devices is a great start, but now you need to put some energy and power numbers to the devices.

There are various online tools for this but I like to use this resource:

System Energy Audit and Sizing Spread Sheet

To get the spreadsheet, click on the orange button at the top of this page. This sheet is intended to help you plan your system. Fill it out down to the last decimal place, look at the results..... and then make your best guess;) Notes...

diysolarforum.com

Since the build is in the planning stages you will have to make some guesses on things, but be as accurate as you can. This will not only help you understand the size system you will need, but it will also help you understand where the energy hogs are and how you might be able to reduce needs.

The Solar King:

View attachment 70274


Note: The diagram above shows a fust before the charge controller. No fuse is really needed there. However, I would advise putting a disconnect right before each controller. The disconnect should disconnect both the positive and the negative. Some people use two-pole breakers as a disconnect switch.

I have started a google sheet with lots of info, but I think I will find your resource very helpful. Plus, I did mine before I picked out my exact appliances, so at least I know what they are now. I'm going to spend time working on this now with what you've helped me with so far. Thank you!

 

[rmaddy]

Tankless Water heater (could end up doing this propane - we have not bought it yet)

I'm using an Excel ventless tankless propane water heater in my trailer. It works pretty well for my needs and it doesn't need any electrical power. It takes 2 D-sized batteries for the ignitor. Electric water heaters need a lot of power.

• Washing Machine
• Small Dryer

These are going to need a lot of power even if the dryer is propane. And of course they will take up a lot of room. Might be cheaper and roomier to use a laundromat once in a while instead.

Hairdryer

These use a surprising amount of power. Time for a new "do".

Window AC

Major power hog. I'm using a small 5000BTU window unit in my trailer and it uses 430W when running full blast. You'll need a much bigger one for a skoolie. You might want to look into a mini split A/C unit. They tend to be a lot more efficient. And since the main unit goes outside, the inside part is much quieter.

I'm still learning all of the terminology and so honestly a lot of the jargon at the moment is like looking at a foreign language.

This might be helpful:

Commonly used Forum Acronyms & Abbreviations

Solar is befuddling enough! Why use acronyms? Well, we're lazy typists.... :LOL: xSyP - e.g., 2S2P, shorthand for how many cells in Series (S) and Parallel (P). A - Amperes or amps. A measure of current. See warning. AC - Air Conditioning, sometimes A/C. AC - Alternating Current, a waveform...

diysolarforum.com

 

[The_Kobayashi_Vroom]

The solar king is a nice set-up. (See my diagram for it below)

In order to know if the Solar King meets your needs, you will need to do a little work to further flesh out your energy needs. To do that you will need to do an energy assessment/audit. Your list of devices is a great start, but now you need to put some energy and power numbers to the devices.

There are various online tools for this but I like to use this resource:

System Energy Audit and Sizing Spread Sheet

To get the spreadsheet, click on the orange button at the top of this page. This sheet is intended to help you plan your system. Fill it out down to the last decimal place, look at the results..... and then make your best guess;) Notes...

diysolarforum.com

Since the build is in the planning stages you will have to make some guesses on things, but be as accurate as you can. This will not only help you understand the size system you will need, but it will also help you understand where the energy hogs are and how you might be able to reduce needs.

The Solar King:

View attachment 70274


Note: The diagram above shows a fust before the charge controller. No fuse is really needed there. However, I would advise putting a disconnect right before each controller. The disconnect should disconnect both the positive and the negative. Some people use two-pole breakers as a disconnect switch.

The solar king is a nice set-up. (See my diagram for it below)

In order to know if the Solar King meets your needs, you will need to do a little work to further flesh out your energy needs. To do that you will need to do an energy assessment/audit. Your list of devices is a great start, but now you need to put some energy and power numbers to the devices.

There are various online tools for this but I like to use this resource:

System Energy Audit and Sizing Spread Sheet

To get the spreadsheet, click on the orange button at the top of this page. This sheet is intended to help you plan your system. Fill it out down to the last decimal place, look at the results..... and then make your best guess;) Notes...

diysolarforum.com

Since the build is in the planning stages you will have to make some guesses on things, but be as accurate as you can. This will not only help you understand the size system you will need, but it will also help you understand where the energy hogs are and how you might be able to reduce needs.

The Solar King:

View attachment 70274


Note: The diagram above shows a fust before the charge controller. No fuse is really needed there. However, I would advise putting a disconnect right before each controller. The disconnect should disconnect both the positive and the negative. Some people use two-pole breakers as a disconnect switch.

So I did the excel sheet - and I really don't understand what I have created.... maybe it's just so much more than it should be that it doesn't make sense? I did leave off the window AC unit because we wouldn't ever be using that on a regular basis - nor would we want to. Does this seem outrageous? Surge watts is something completely new to me.... and I just tried to estimate what I thought that would be and on what items... but I might have done that wrong. Any suggestions/help/comments would be wonderful - Amanda

 

[rmaddy]

The Maxxair fan will only use about 36W when turned up to 10. I know because I just tested mine to see the load. I rarely go past 4 which is about 6W. That should help your numbers a bit.

Something is wrong with the second image you posted. All of the loads you entered are DC loads but they all got entered in the AC load columns.

 

[FilterGuy]

Now you can see why I recommend the audit.

I looked over the inputs for all of the devices and did not see anything that looked way out of line but I have a few questions.

* Were the numbers measured or from the device specs? (Device wattage or amperage specs are always higher than actual)
* The fridge shows 8hours. Is this a guess?

Inverter sizing: (Wattage or power needs)
The hair dryer at 1800 W and the air fryer at 1500W are really driving the size of the inverter. Either one of these pretty much uses up the capability of the 2000w Inverter.

The calculations for inverter size in the spreadsheet are very conservative because it assumes everything is turned on at once. This is probably never going to happen but if just the fridge and the hair dryer are on at the same time, it maxes out the 2000W inverter.

Battery and solar sizing; (Amp hours or energy needs)
There are a few things that are driving energy usage. The van is not very high wattage, but since it is running 24hr per day, the energy usage is very high. The fridge is in a similar situation (That is why I asked how the 8 hrs was derived.... if it is actually less the energy usage could be a lot lower_)

The Maxxair fan will only use about 36W when turned up to 10. I know because I just tested mine to see the load. I rarely go past 4 which is about 6W. That should help your numbers a bit.

Something is wrong with the second image you posted. All of the loads you entered are DC loads but they all got entered in the AC load columns.

Looking at the screenshot in the spreadsheet, the dc indication column header got truncated.
It should look like this:


Please put a yes in "Runs off DC" column for any row where the device is running off of DC. This could change the inverter sizing.

 

[The_Kobayashi_Vroom]

The Maxxair fan will only use about 36W when turned up to 10. I know because I just tested mine to see the load. I rarely go past 4 which is about 6W. That should help your numbers a bit.

Something is wrong with the second image you posted. All of the loads you entered are DC loads but they all got entered in the AC load columns.

Thank you. I was just estimating from something I found online!

 

[The_Kobayashi_Vroom]

I don't know how to do the quote things so I just put all of my answers to you in bold! I hope that helps.

* Were the numbers measured or from the device specs? (Device wattage or amperage specs are always higher than actual)
Yes, device specs. I have the washer, dryer, and maxx fan in my living room. I took the fridge specs from the website. I googled a couple and used some of the stuff from the sample.

* The fridge shows 8hours. Is this a guess?
Yes, I just googled an average. I have no idea honestly. It is a 10 cu.ft. Galanz - and I got the specs from the info online. I don't have it yet, it will be delivered soon.

Inverter sizing: (Wattage or power needs)
The hair dryer at 1800 W and the air fryer at 1500W are really driving the size of the inverter. Either one of these pretty much uses up the capability of the 2000w Inverter.
I honestly can probably do without the air fryer, and I probably will use my hair dryer 2x a week at most, for about 10 minutes or so. (I have curly hair!)

The calculations for inverter size in the spreadsheet are very conservative because it assumes everything is turned on at once. This is probably never going to happen but if just the fridge and the hair dryer are on at the same time, it maxes out the 2000W inverter.
That's crazy to think about! No wonder someone recommended a "new do" lol

Battery and solar sizing; (Amp hours or energy needs)
There are a few things that are driving energy usage. The van is not very high wattage, but since it is running 24hr per day, the energy usage is very high. The fridge is in a similar situation (That is why I asked how the 8 hrs was derived.... if it is actually less the energy usage could be a lot lower_)
I don't know if the fan needs to be run 24 hours, but I wanted to overestimate. We didn't delete any windows so we can have most of them down in our bus.

Looking at the screenshot in the spreadsheet, the dc indication column header got truncated.
It should look like this:
View attachment 70307

Please put a yes in "Runs off DC" column for any row where the device is running off of DC. This could change the inverter sizing.
I have absolutely no idea how I know if something runs off DC?


Thank you! - Amanda

 

[rmaddy]

I have absolutely no idea how I know if something runs off DC?

If it has a normal power cord that you would plug in at home then it is AC. Things like the pumps, lights, cell booster, and fans will be DC.

 

[rmaddy]

I don't know how to do the quote things

If you want to quote just part of a post, highlight the text and then you should see a "Reply" menu appear for the highlighted text. Click on that Reply to quote the highlighted text.

If you want to quote an entire post then simply click on the Reply link in the bottom-right corner of the message you wish to quote.

 

[FilterGuy]

I don't know how to do the quote things so I just put all of my answers to you in bold! I hope that helps.

Yes, that helps.

If you highlight/select something in someone's post, a little "reply" button appears. Click on it and it will quote in the reply box.

I have absolutely no idea how I know if something runs off DC?

If you hook it up to the battery it runs off DC. If you plug it in a wall socket it is on AC.

 

[FilterGuy]

The Maxxair fan will only use about 36W when turned up to 10. I know because I just tested mine to see the load. I rarely go past 4 which is about 6W.

That will make a big difference in the battery and solar sizing.

 

[The_Kobayashi_Vroom]

Ok! I've made the changes to the fan wattage, I have removed the air fryer and hair dryer. I have upped the # of LED puck lights (because husband said I didn't estimate high enough) - and last but not least - now have the DC things marked! Since I cannot attach the spreadsheet, I did screen snips again.... How is this now?

 

[FilterGuy]

Ok! I've made the changes to the fan wattage, I have removed the air fryer and hair dryer. I have upped the # of LED puck lights (because husband said I didn't estimate high enough) - and last but not least - now have the DC things marked! Since I cannot attach the spreadsheet, I did screen snips again.... How is this now?

OK.... that made a big difference!!! It is getting closer to the capability of the Solar King. However, based on what you have said, I am thinking you might have buyer's remorse with the Solar king. Even scaled back, your needs are maxing out the capability of a 2K inverter.

Your next question will be "If not the Solar king, what?" Unfortunately, the solar king 2000W inverter is kinda at the top end of what I would recommend for a 12V system. The next step up would be to go to a 24V system, but that brings some complications with powering the 12V devices.

 

[Rednecktek]

The next step up would be to go to a 24V system, but that brings some complications with powering the 12V devices.

Fortunately there are fixes for that as I had to figure out when I was planning the power revamp of my shed. I'll attach a picture of that so you can see what I did on there. You'll just need to incorporate a buck transformer with enough capacity to feed all the 12v stuff. Since you're going to have all the 12v stuff on a fuse block (Rrriiiggghhhttt??) it's just one piece of hardware between your batteries and the fuse block to solve all those pesky voltage problems.

Speaking of voltage problems, you're going to want to ask questions about getting a DC-DC converter/charger/battery-not-fryer to charge from the alternator. Just connecting your system up to the bus's power system is asking for trouble and expensive alternator/battery/system repairs.

Another thing you're going to need to do, once the power audit is all put together, is whip out the measuring tape and figure out where you're going to need to put all the stuff. Having a dozen 300Ah batteries sounds great until you're sleeping on the floor because you've eaten up all the bed space with batteries.

Go ahead and re-do your power audit figuring for worst case scenario like the AC is running while you're doing your hair and breakfast is cooking while the hubby is in the shower using all the hot water.. AGAIN! Knowing what your top-end limit is will be helpful for sizing the inverter and avoiding spending a wad of cash now and having to replace something the next week because you underestimated.

Better to have 3Kw and need 1Kw than the other way around.

 

[The_Kobayashi_Vroom]

Speaking of voltage problems, you're going to want to ask questions about getting a DC-DC converter/charger/battery-not-fryer to charge from the alternator. Just connecting your system up to the bus's power system is asking for trouble and expensive alternator/battery/system repairs.

We weren't planning on doing a from-the-alternator-charge anyway - so that won't be a problem.

Having a dozen 300Ah batteries sounds great until you're sleeping on the floor because you've eaten up all the bed space with batteries.

Ha! We were not planning on that! I have been looking/pricing out SOK batteries. Does this mean I should be looking at the 24V ones instead of 12 if we were to do that? And then would the buck transformer change the 24V from the battery into the 12? Does that mean I only need half as many?

Your next question will be "If not the Solar king, what?" Unfortunately, the solar king 2000W inverter is kinda at the top end of what I would recommend for a 12V system. The next step up would be to go to a 24V system, but that brings some complications with powering the 12V devices.

I am not sure we can cut anything more, because we do see having a mini split possibly in the future ... and I mean, I did remove the air fryer and a hair dryer... and we started talking about if we can return the dryer - but I really DO want it. So maybe we should plan for the future - and go bigger than we think we need right now - before we are even living in our bus.

Go ahead and re-do your power audit figuring for worst case scenario like the AC is running while you're doing your hair and breakfast is cooking while the hubby is in the shower using all the hot water.. AGAIN! Knowing what your top-end limit is will be helpful for sizing the inverter and avoiding spending a wad of cash now and having to replace something the next week because you underestimated

Ok - I'm going to work on this this morning. Thank you all ... so much. My electrical experience is limited to squishy circuits and little bits. ? I already know more this morning than I did yesterday morning!

Amanda