Trouble Charging LiTime TM Batteries

[Tolly Roger]

Thank you for posting this.
I am Experiencing this issue with my new to me LiTime 230Ah’s and using their 10 amp charger. After leaving it on the charger overnight I came back to the charger flashing red and green. The voltage was 12.79. I thought I had a bad battery.
You would think they would include this information with new batteries or at least email an updated user manual to let you know.
For me at least this is not a good start for my experience

01112024 UPDATE:
Turns out my issue was with the LiTime charger. Not sure why but it was tripping the BMS and disconnecting. I am returning it for a refund.
I purchased a Victron IP22 and slightly modified the charging parameters and I believe I have successfully charged all 3 Batteries.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Experiencing this issue with my new to me LiTime 230Ah’s and using their 10 amp charger
You would think they would include this information with new batteries or at least email an updated user manual to let you know.
For me at least this is not a good start for my experience

I'm sure it's frustrating, but there's no incentive for the manufacturers to improve, and there are technical barriers to success. As pricing gets more aggressive, they can't afford to source perfectly matched cells and stay competitive. Furthermore, the chances the batteries will actually stay balanced in the 90+ days between manufacture and delivery, and considering they have to be discharged to less than 30% SoC before shipping to comply with hazmat requirements, is nearly zero.

The reality is that most people won't notice the issue, and it will eventually go away with normal charging/cycling.

Putting the battery on the charger for at least a day - maybe a week, should bring the battery to an acceptable state of balance.

 

[jbnalley]

I am new in the battery space and have been experimenting with different solar generators and battery builds. My battery builds seem to be more consistent than the ones I have purchased, but for some reason I think I prefer just buying off the shelf.

Generally, I have the same issue with the same 230 Ah battery. I have run a small load on it to get it to the 13.3 resting rate as instructed by LiTime and I have also let it sit at 12.9 over night. Both after a complete charge cycle with my Victron charger IP22 12|30. I have now run 3 capacity tests and get nearly the same result each time 225.61 to 225.86. After the last test I used the Li Time Monitor and ended up with the resting voltage again at 12.9 and 227 Ah. Looking at my Victron charger it shows a stop at 227.1 Ah. It seems minor but I really expected 230 (as advertised). I guess with the other LiTime batteries I have used, I was a bit spoiled that everthing worked and charged as expected and the batteries also almost always had a slightly larger capacity than advertised.

After all the back and forth with Li-Time and reading this thread, I just suspect there is something up with the 230 Ah battery and/or BMS. That being said, It was cheaper than the 200ah battery and slightly smaller in size (which is why I went with it to begin with vs the 200 Ah battery). So overall I really can't complain one battery with slightly less than advertised capacity in general use I believe its going to work fine and if not then I'll pull it and send it back.

I would like to see Will do a tear down on the 230 Ah from LiTime and see if he gets the same results most of us here on this thread are experiancing. Honestly, I would just like to see the inside and how its put together compared to other Li-Time batteries he has evaluated in the past.

 

[Inkog]

I picked up 2 of these Low Temp 230AH Plus batteries about a month ago. I too had issues charging them initially. One wouldn't even get to 13.8v before the BMS shut it down. I figured they were horribly imbalanced so I went on the search for information on the BMS balancing settings:

Balance voltage for single cell：3.525±0.025V Balance current for single cell：35±10mA .

This basically means that the BMS uses a simple passive balancing method that sinks (bleeds off) ~35mA of current if the cell goes over 3.525V. If a single cell hits ~3.7V the BMS will shut down and you'll see the 12.9V at the terminals. You either need to charge these things slooowly at first or just keep up a charge/rest cycle until the offending cell(s) bleeds off enough current to let the others catch up.

I'd suggest lowering the absorption voltage to 13.8V to give the BMS time to sink cells. Once you got it fully charging at the set voltage without the BMS tripping, you can slowly raise the voltage up. I don't suggest long-term charging prismatic cells over 14V (3.5v/cell) but checking the balance up to 14.4V on occasion won't hurt anything.

I haven't opened mine up, but based on the shape I'm pretty sure there are 8 ~115AH prismatic cells in a 4S2P configuration. That means charging the entire pack at 2-3amps should be slow enough to let the cells sink enough current to not trip the BMS while the stragglers catch up.

I've not had any problems from mine since I managed to get them fully charged and put into service in 2P. I did swap out my main battery disconnect with a 4 position switch (off, 1, 2, 1+2) so I can charge them individually easily if needed. Time will tell how long they will remain in balance...

Cheers,

 

[badaxed]

I have three LiTime TM batteries (https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-100ah-tm-deep-cycle-lifepo4-battery-for-trolling-motors) that I bought based on Will's teardown video.

I have a Minn Kota 440PCL 10A charger (https://minnkota.johnsonoutdoors.com/us/shop/battery-chargers/on-board-precision-chargers?v=102071). This charger has a lithium setting, and I do have the charger properly set to "lithium."

Finally, I have Victron Smart Battery Sense Bluetooth monitors on each battery (https://www.victronenergy.com/accessories/smart-battery-sense).

I am currently using two of the batteries in series for a 24v trolling motor. I fully charged them to balance within .02v prior to connecting them. The third one will be used when I upgrade to a 36v trolling motor in the coming months. The charger is connected to each battery (independent 12v leads).

The batteries have run my trolling motor fine so far (two trips), but charging seems to be a mess. Two of the batteries seems to be periodically locking up at approximately 12.9 volts. This is happening to one of the batteries in the series and to the battery that is standing alone (which was previously connected in series - I swapped them out). When this happens, the charger seems to turn on and off so that the voltage (per Victron monitor) is flicking back and forth between 14.3 to 12.9. The battery stays at 12.9v (does not increase) regardless of how long I let it do this (I've tried up to two days) and sits as 12.9 when I unplug the charger.

I contacted LiTime, and they said I should discharge the problem battery for one minute, then charge it again. That didn't work, but eventually I got it to work by connecting a device, letting it run for considerably longer than one minute, and then connecting the charger. This seemed to get the battery to accept a charge. But when I disconnected the charger, the battery fairly quickly (30 minutes give or take) stepped down 12.9v as through something was sucking the power from it. The only devices connected to the battery is the bluetooth monitor and the charger. I've done this with both "problem batteries." I've yet to experience this with the third battery, which has been in series the entire time).

The only thing the two "problem batteries" seem to have in common is that I've had each of them connected in series with the positive to the load and the negative coming from the third battery that has not yet had a problem. LiTime says these batteries can be run in series up to 48v. I did balance them before connecting in series. And the charger is built for lithium. I am mostly clueless, but guessing the BMS isn't compatible with my setup. This would be very disappointing given the fact that these are marketed as trolling motor batteries and I have one of the most common chargers and setups for trolling motors...

I'm frustrated. I have an Ionic brand battery for my starting/house battery and it's been flawless in that application with the charger. I've asked LiTime twice now to send me a return authorization for the batteries. They keep coming back with advice and have yet to send the return authorization. Their latest advice was that I should buy their charger and that they'll take it back if it doesn't work. This system is in the hull of my boat with difficult access. The MK440PCL charger is installed in the hull of the boat and I don't want to remove it. And I can't disconnect the series for charging due to access restrictions).

I was hoping to save some $ by going with these and at this point I wish I had just paid for Ionic across the board. I took the risk, but LiTime should at least honor their 30 day return policy.

Any thoughts or advice on this?

Last April I purchased three LiTime 100 amp deep cycle lipo 4 trolling motor batteries as well as a noco lithium charger from Amazon. I based my purchase on will prowse’s you tube video reviews. One of the batteries froze at 72 % and would not charge. Li Time customer service told me I had to ‘wake it up” by drawing 60 watts for five minutes. This seemed to work. Not long afterwords another LiTime battery went dead @10.25 volts and would not charge at all. I contacted Li Time and after several e-mails gave them my receipt, charger info, order # and picture of battery and this is their response;


“Hi Randy,
Thanks for your info. It helps!
I will help you return this unchargeable battery, we will cover the shipping cost.”


Next I received this from Li Time;


“We notice that your order was placed on 7 April 2023, which is one year ago, and according to our refund policy, for orders one year ago, the refund percentage is 60%.Is it acceptable for you?


Once the battery is delivered to the warehouse, we will arrange the refund for you, the tax will be refunded by Amazon.


For the replacement, you just need to pay $28 to get a new replacement battery.”


After complaining about having to pay shipping costs to Li Time I received this;


“Hello Randy,
We've received your returned product and we're ready to arrange a refund for you,before that,we have received your request about the return shipping cost.


As you're our valued customer, after a special application, we would like to help you cover the shipping cost of $28 for the replacement battery, but could you pls help write a 5-star review on our website before the refundation? Is is acceptable and convenient for you?


If it is possible, pls mention my name Mavis in the review. Thanks in advance for your help!!


Here are the steps to leave a 5-star review on our website.”


I noticed Li Time asked for a 5 star review BEFORE THEY WOULD SEND ME A REPLACEMENT UNDER THEIR WARRANTY.

I asked again do I need to write a 5 star review before I get warranty service?


Li Times answer was “yes in order to not get charged for shipping I needed to write a 5 star review.”


This in ‘my opinion’ amounts to blackmail for warranty service.


In my opinion this is an act ( to obtain false higher ratings) of a very disreputable company. I would advise avoiding doing business with this company like the plague, as their warranty policy is truly not 5 years , but only 30 days without penalty ( cost) to the buyer.


From Li Time;


“If the 30-day return period has passed, if the item is faulty or malfunctioning, the customer needs to pay for the return shipping cost, since you are our valuable customer, we have already covered the return shipping cost for you, normally, the replacement shipping cost will need to be covered by the customer, to make up for a little bit of the loss, if you are willing to leave a 5-star positive review on our official website, we will cover the replacement shipping cost for you again, and we will send you a brand new replacement for free!
The total shipping cost is $56( for the return and replacement”


So my replacement battery was held hostage until I wrote a 5 star review…..this I did begrudgingly. (This is an amended review of the 5 star rating I was blackmailed into writing).


Beware of this horrible company, their products, their poor warranty , and potential blackmail to obtain warranty service. Beware that those 5 star reviews you read about ,may be blackmailed by Li Time like mine was , just to get your “kidnapped” replacement battery released from Li Time .

 

[Alkaline]

What you are seeing it what I have seen multiple times with Chins, Ampere Time, Wieze and the numerous clones from amazon. About the only ones I have not seen are Redodo.

Usually by year 2 or 3 is when you start seeing this charging mess because the grade B cells are now so out of balance the BMS will struggle to try to balance them.

So my fix for them is to open the lid up, and install the flying capacitor style active balancer. If you can do some soldering you can get a slider switch and mount it to the outside of the case, then turn it on/off as needed.

Using this method I've helped over 10 people in the Toledo Bend Fishing Areas and with this for the most part we were able to get back to 95% of rated capacity.

That being said...

If I were you, I would black mail them! Give them a scathing review on amazon post pictures and tell them how they asked for a 5 star review. They will immediately get upset and start crying; when this happens demand they give you 2 free batteries and and prepaid lables to send the defective ones back, only when you get the replacements will you take the review down. Yes you will be the villan in this case, but I feel no mercy for these sellers and this is the only language they understand!

 

[Alkaline]

About 10 years ago, there was this rc pilot flying a very expensive 25,000.00 usd + RC jet had a nasty crash: https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-jets-120/11474504-fly-eagle-jet-f-14-crash-video.html this was due to structural failure, the model was poorly built by a Chinese company and he just so happened to have someone filming when this happened so he had iron clad proof of the failure.

here is a video of it: (he took down his original video, probably because the vendor sales tanked and they gave him what he wanted) so this was a copy of his originally posted video:

Basically the model crashed, and the rc pilot wanted a full replacement airframe and all the electronics & engines, fly eagle jet (makers of the model) refused instead wanted to give me a small discount on a new airframe only no engines or electronics. He waited and warned them and eventually posted the video on line. The company fly eagle jet started crying, calling him racist, saying they will have the fbi arrest him so on and so forth. In the end they were forced to give in the the RC pilots demands and he made his video private, however, there sales dropped to nothing and they went out of business. They still have a facebook page but no updates since 2019 https://www.facebook.com/p/FLY-EAGLE-JET-MODEL-100066651579135/

I was shocked he got anything, as me and so many others said Yeah it will be a cold day in heck before you get anything back from the Chinese..WRONG.

So moral of the story is, when dealing with Chinese vendors you can show no mercy, they do not respect you unless you make it clear you will hurt their future revenue & sales.

As for the reviews yes it is entirely fake:

Here is my fav scene from the HBO show silicon valley which explains this perfectly:

Finally will say: you get what you pay for....

 

[HarryN]

Or you can just buy a decent battery in the first place.

 

[dcg9381]

Interestingly enough, I have 2 x 48V (51.2V ComFlex Edition Energy Storage) from Litime.
I have them setup using BMS coms speaking Victron protocol. I've cycled them a few times, let them charge overnight, but in every single occurrence, I get a "high voltage alarm" in the AM on my Victron:



I messed with one of the batteries today, it was clearly in "Over Voltage Protection", but it was indicating an overall voltage of 53.7V, well with the "normal" operating range a 51.2V battery...



The triggered coms warning will shut down my victron inverter (not ideal) and the over voltage protection will shut down a whole battery...

There is a spread on the cells:



Any ideas, again, I've cycled these. The only think I can think about is taking them out of BMS comms and setting charge parameters manually to a slightly lower voltage.

 

[willo]

What is your charge source?

Interestingly enough, I have 2 x 48V (51.2V ComFlex Edition Energy Storage) from Litime.
I have them setup using BMS coms speaking Victron protocol. I've cycled them a few times, let them charge overnight, but in every single occurrence, I get a "high voltage alarm" in the AM on my Victron:

View attachment 265909

I messed with one of the batteries today, it was clearly in "Over Voltage Protection", but it was indicating an overall voltage of 53.7V, well with the "normal" operating range a 51.2V battery...

View attachment 265910

The triggered coms warning will shut down my victron inverter (not ideal) and the over voltage protection will shut down a whole battery...

There is a spread on the cells:

View attachment 265911

Any ideas, again, I've cycled these. The only think I can think about is taking them out of BMS comms and setting charge parameters manually to a slightly lower voltage.

What's your charge source? What's controlling that? A cerbo?

 

[dcg9381]

@willo

A Cerbo is controlling a Victron Multiplus ii 48/3000. BMS communications, so it's the batteries that control things.

As near as I can tell this is a "common" problem with LiTime and it's an over-protective BMS. Curious how to prevent it? Disengage BMS communications and set lower peak charge parameters / use a shunt?

 

[willo]

So you have DVCC configured? It allows for some charge configuration - specifically you can limit the maximum charge voltage. https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/CCGX/en/dvcc---distributed-voltage-and-current-control.html

 

[sunshine_eggo]

@willo

A Cerbo is controlling a Victron Multiplus ii 48/3000. BMS communications, so it's the batteries that control things.

As near as I can tell this is a "common" problem with LiTime and it's an over-protective BMS. Curious how to prevent it? Disengage BMS communications and set lower peak charge parameters / use a shunt?

It's a relatively common problem with all server rack batteries using the Pylontech protocol unless they've refined the charge parameters (IIRC, EG4 has, maybe others).

Disable comms. Set absorption and float to 3.40-3.45 (higher in this range is better) and let it run that way for a few days. See if balance improves.

 

[dcg9381]

So you have DVCC configured? It allows for some charge configuration - specifically you can limit the maximum charge voltage. https://www.victronenergy.com/media/pg/CCGX/en/dvcc---distributed-voltage-and-current-control.html

No. It's using battery coms for control. It's aggravating that that this thing "speaks Victron" (protcol) but in doing so goes into a faulted state upon full charge.

I can enable DVCC. Will this disable the SOC display and have to move to a shunt?

It's a relatively common problem with all server rack batteries using the Pylontech protocol unless they've refined th

Pftt. When I bought EG-4 rack batteries they wouldn't really communicate in series without some hacks. I'm glad they've improved them. I don't even use battery coms with EG-4 inverters.

Disable comms. Set absorption and float to 3.40-3.45 (higher in this range is better) and let it run that way for a few days. See if balance improves.

Will do. Thank you.

 

[dcg9381]

This is the response from LiTime, which is very disappointing:

Through your description of the problem, our engineers told us that the problem with your battery occurs because the static voltage after full charge does not drop to the value to cancel the overvoltage protection state. It takes some time for the voltage to drop in natural static state. Generally, the higher the charging rate, the faster it drops. Single cell overvoltage, overall overvoltage, cut-off voltage and current are the three conditions for judging full charge.

This means that this battery, upon reaching full charge will always go into protect mode and shut itself down until cell voltage drops. Obviously this won't work for many applications.

 

[dcg9381]

Obviously LiTime support does not understand BMS communications and is giving pretty bad advice:

. It is recommended to set the [Victron] battery overvoltage value higher to see if the same problem will occur (65.7V)

 

[Belligero]

Hi All,

I received a 100ah 24v Li Time battery last week and I'm struggling to get to the charge voltage of 28.x volts as specified. My Victron Blue Smart 13A 24V charger must be kicking the over protection that's mentioned in this post and stops charging at 26.6v
What is throwing me off is the charger shows 28.x volts.

Li Time asked me to do a capacity test on the battery so that's currently running.

The also mentioned I need to use the battery a few times for it to work itself out and "The battery is full when at 26.66V. It will only go up to 28.V when it is charging."

I'm wondering if anyone could tell me what settings I should set in my victron charger to slow charge the battery to bring balance the cells? The app says it's balanced but I don't believe it.

Bit of a shame I'm having to micro manage the battery as I had hoped to have a good experience with it as it's not a common battery brand in Australia.

 

[Q-Dog]

Hi All,

I received a 100ah 24v Li Time battery last week and I'm struggling to get to the charge voltage of 28.x volts as specified. My Victron Blue Smart 13A 24V charger must be kicking the over protection that's mentioned in this post and stops charging at 26.6v
What is throwing me off is the charger shows 28.x volts.

Li Time asked me to do a capacity test on the battery so that's currently running.

The also mentioned I need to use the battery a few times for it to work itself out and "The battery is full when at 26.66V. It will only go up to 28.V when it is charging."

I'm wondering if anyone could tell me what settings I should set in my victron charger to slow charge the battery to bring balance the cells? The app says it's balanced but I don't believe it.

Bit of a shame I'm having to micro manage the battery as I had hoped to have a good experience with it as it's not a common battery brand in Australia.

Set absorption voltage lower, like 28.0, and see if it finishes the cycle. How many amps are you charging?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Hi All,

I received a 100ah 24v Li Time battery last week and I'm struggling to get to the charge voltage of 28.x volts as specified.

Likely cell imbalance.

My Victron Blue Smart 13A 24V charger must be kicking the over protection that's mentioned in this post and stops charging at 26.6v
What is throwing me off is the charger shows 28.x volts.

When the BMS engages charge protection mode, it cuts itself out of the circuit, so the charger will jump to and output the programmed absorption voltage.

Li Time asked me to do a capacity test on the battery so that's currently running.

The also mentioned I need to use the battery a few times for it to work itself out and "The battery is full when at 26.66V. It will only go up to 28.V when it is charging."

A few cycles may improve cell balance.

I'm wondering if anyone could tell me what settings I should set in my victron charger to slow charge the battery to bring balance the cells? The app says it's balanced but I don't believe it.

what app?

Bit of a shame I'm having to micro manage the battery as I had hoped to have a good experience with it as it's not a common battery brand in Australia.

This is EXTREMELY COMMON ON ALL BRANDS, MODELS AND PRICE POINTS.

Hazmat regs prohibit Lithium batteries from shipping at > 30% SoC. It's rare that batteries reach the end user in less than 90 days since the last time they were charged, so there is 3 months worth of self-discharge to contribute to imbalance.

 

[Belligero]

Set absorption voltage lower, like 28.0, and see if it finishes the cycle. How many amps are you charging?

I tried absorption at 28v / float disabled / storage 28.4v - No change I think the battery is seeing one cell at 28.8 but the lowest cell is 26.6 - My understanding is probably wrong though.

I'm using a 13A charger.

Likely cell imbalance.



When the BMS engages charge protection mode, it cuts itself out of the circuit, so the charger will jump to and output the programmed absorption voltage.



A few cycles may improve cell balance.



what app?



This is EXTREMELY COMMON ON ALL BRANDS, MODELS AND PRICE POINTS.

Hazmat regs prohibit Lithium batteries from shipping at > 30% SoC. It's rare that batteries reach the end user in less than 90 days since the last time they were charged, so there is 3 months worth of self-discharge to contribute to imbalance.

The Li Time app only provides a general "It's balancing" status rather than displaying individual cell voltages. Eventually, it indicates the battery is balanced, but the voltage remains at 26.6V, and it refuses to charge. I'm hoping a full discharge and recharge will resolve any potential issue.

I have several other LiFePO4 batteries, and given that I'm in Australia, shipping times are long. Li Time batteries aren't particularly common here, so I suspect mine sat in a warehouse for some time. That said, none of my other batteries, which also came from China, have had balancing issues.

Right now, I'm discharging at 5A. The app shows 50% SOC with 48Ah remaining and a voltage of 26.1V.

 

[Q-Dog]

I tried absorption at 28v / float disabled / storage 28.4v - No change I think the battery is seeing one cell at 28.8 but the lowest cell is 26.6 - My understanding is probably wrong though.

I'm using a 13A charger.

Cycling is good. The BMS doesn't balance at lower charge voltage so you don't have to discharge all the way down to zero. Half is a good place to start. Lower absorption more, try 27.5 volts and see what happens. And lower charge amperage too so the battery charges slower while the balancer is working.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

The Li Time app only provides a general "It's balancing" status rather than displaying individual cell voltages.

Unfortunate! Does it report current?

Eventually, it indicates the battery is balanced, but the voltage remains at 26.6V, and it refuses to charge. I'm hoping a full discharge and recharge will resolve any potential issue.

Discharges don't do much of anything to restore balance, but it is good to know what the battery can deliver.

Small discharges of 5% or so with very slow recharges to full are often the best way to encourage balancing.

Some BMS are unfortunately set to "balance only while charging" AND you must be over the threshold that the BMS can detect - some won't detect less than some arbitrary current - like 2A, so "balanced" may be reported when balancing stops because the battery is no longer charging.

 

[Belligero]

Cycling is good. The BMS doesn't balance at lower charge voltage so you don't have to discharge all the way down to zero. Half is a good place to start. Lower absorption more, try 27.5 volts and see what happens. And lower charge amperage too so the battery charges slower while the balancer is working.

It's been discharging overnight and so far looks as though it will get to 100AH as advertised so that's good however see what the results are when its finished.

I'm unsure what settings I can change on the charger to slow the amps down for charging. I will do some research see what I can find.

Unfortunate! Does it report current?



Discharges don't do much of anything to restore balance, but it is good to know what the battery can deliver.

Small discharges of 5% or so with very slow recharges to full are often the best way to encourage balancing.

Some BMS are unfortunately set to "balance only while charging" AND you must be over the threshold that the BMS can detect - some won't detect less than some arbitrary current - like 2A, so "balanced" may be reported when balancing stops because the battery is no longer charging.

Yes it shows amp current as -5.1amp which matches what I am drawing from the tester.
I'm unsure if its technically possible but I hope they do introduce a way to see individual cells as the app is pretty good otherwise. Great bluetooth distance. Maybe they don't want us seeing individual cells for this reason.

I will do a lower amp charge over a number of days once the capacity test is complete to hopefully give it a hand. That is providing it reaches 100AH. If it does not then the battery is going back.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Belligero]

Capacity test completed
19 hours
100.48ah
2610wh


Doing a 4amp charge on the battery now should take 24 hours I guess. Hopefully this slow charge will give the cells a balance if needed.

Thanks for all the feedback.