Trying to power a damaged Ranch

[Quattrohead]

@havoc Sun don't give up just yet. There are a variety of ways to install and set up a solar system and custom Taylor it to your needs .

I am about to install a 12kw Growatt 12000T AIO for my daughter's farm. They got quoted $35k+ to bring grid power out. We are building a 12kw ac off grid system with a 11840w solar array and 28,600Whs of battery storage for just over $15k.The batteries will be the weak link, but we plan to add more by next summer.

I would also seriously consider a pair of those LV6548's (in the videos above) for 240v ac split phase. Those look pretty awesome. And UL certified.

I am planning something similar for our build here in Brevard County. New ICF build lots of insulation/ high quality windows etc
Thinking I should be able to do it for under $25k with 100% WAF !!!

 

[MrM1]

Hybrid water heater is the way to go, they seem to run around 600-800w in heat pump mode and you can run them in that mode only....even disconnect the "backup" 4500w heater elements if you need to make sure they are never activated.

Agreed, but my water heater is in a 4 ft crawl space ?

 

[Bubba1]

Look at your electric bills. How much power did you use.

 

[Quattrohead]

Agreed, but my water heater is in a 4 ft crawl space ?

Did you wire the heaters in series ? At lest you have half heating power not quarter !!!

 

[havoc Sun]

Watch out for the math. Wholesale prices of electricity is not the retail price. You can check out CALISO to see the wholesale prices. The supply of solar when the solar is out is starting to exceed demand. The government added credits and net metering rules to increase solar usage. Now there is too much solar. The price of electricity goes negative when supply exceeds demand. As each person adds more solar, the supply increases and the demand decreases. There is no storage on the grid of any size to store the power for later. It's awful to spend $ on a solar installation, and have to pay people to use your power. Net metering is a rule that you will get paid the retail price when you sell power. This difference in $ is taxed from the non solar users. There are movements to stop net metering.

California ISO - Today's Outlook

Monitor real-time grid conditions. View current and historical data for demand, net-demand, supply, renewables, CO2 emissions and wholesale energy prices.

www.caiso.com

I think I will tie just some things into my solar system. Like my Mini AC pro.

@havoc Sun don't give up just yet. There are a variety of ways to install and set up a solar system and custom Taylor it to your needs .

I am about to install a 12kw Growatt 12000T AIO for my daughter's farm. They got quoted $35k+ to bring grid power out. We are building a 12kw ac off grid system with a 11840w solar array and 28,600Whs of battery storage for just over $15k.The batteries will be the weak link, but we plan to add more by next summer.

I would also seriously consider a pair of those LV6548's (in the videos above) for 240v ac split phase. Those look pretty awesome. And UL certified.

 

[havoc Sun]

@havoc Sun don't give up just yet. There are a variety of ways to install and set up a solar system and custom Taylor it to your needs .

I am about to install a 12kw Growatt 12000T AIO for my daughter's farm. They got quoted $35k+ to bring grid power out. We are building a 12kw ac off grid system with a 11840w solar array and 28,600Whs of battery storage for just over $15k.The batteries will be the weak link, but we plan to add more by next summer.

I would also seriously consider a pair of those LV6548's (in the videos above) for 240v ac split phase. Those look pretty awesome. And UL certified.

Maybe I could start with a grid support system, I like the dual solar controller above. I may build that to start. Have it run just my mini AC/pro & garage.

 

[havoc Sun]

Also, little know (or thought of) fact, you can operate a standard 240v ac tank water heater on 120v ac. It will simply cut the output by 75% +/-. 4500 watts becomes closer to 1100 watts and it takes 4x's longer to heat the water. But this is how I store excess solar power generation through the day if my batteries reach 100% by noon. I don't sell back to the grid (I'm not grid tied), but I use my hot water I stored at night. It's free. Basically (in a way) I use my hot water heater like a second battery.

I'm looking at the new electric tankless water heaters. They seem to be very energy efficient.

 

[havoc Sun]

Look at your electric bills. How much power did you use.

We are heavy users, I love my music loud on old analog equipment. I do a lot of welding (mostly Mig & Arc) & I play with old vintage electronics. Just look at my YouTube channel. I'm into everything vintage electric. I have one of the largest picture tube TVs (CRT). I run a old vintage computer museum. I am beginning to realize there is no way I can be 1000% off grid. But I can build a "supported" Solar system.

 

[diyernh]

Victron Mul

It looks like this controller can connect to the grid so that if you exceed this controllers demand the grid takes over. Is that correct, if not is there something out there that will do that?

Victron Multiplus will use the batteries to "boost" the grid. But mine is only programmed if the grid (generator in my case) is limited in amperage. You could try setting a lower grid input amperage, just enough that the batteries/ solar/wind will maintain the levels. I'm not sure you can swap the priorities to battery inverter first, then the grid second.

 

[Bvillebob]

Those tankless water heaters are efficient, but their instantaneous power demand is enormous when operating. I can't imagine running one off solar, even modest sized ones I looked at were 10KW and more when running.

 

[havoc Sun]

Those tankless water heaters are efficient, but their instantaneous power demand is enormous when operating. I can't imagine running one off solar, even modest sized ones I looked at were 10KW and more when running.

I wonder, is it more efficient to run a electric tank water heater or tankless? In any event it seems I will run a supported Solar controller. And maybe have it run just some things like my Mini AC/Pro & my garage. Grid everything else.

 

[MrM1]

I wonder, is it more efficient to run a electric tank water heater or tankless? In any event it seems I will run a supported Solar controller. And maybe have it run just some things like my Mini AC/Pro & my garage. Grid everything else.

I think a hybrid heat pump water heater is probably the most efficient

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

Should be easy to do, in this fashion:

1.) start with propane fuel system and powerful genny; with auto-start and capacity, power for any load is always available, at the cost of genny running all the time.
a.) have propane service install 500gal (or larger) propane tank ... this is your fuel system.
b.) connect propane to large (minimum 12kw) propane generator.
- if needing auto-start, use a generac 22kw guardian standby genny or equivalent
- if not needing auto-start, use something like a duromax df12000eh or equivalent.
- both of these generate 120v/240v power; if you run the genny whenever you need power, you're done.

2.) add inverter/charger and battery bank, if you don't want to run the genny all the time; genny will now only run about 4hrs/day
a..) feed all the power into a magnum ms-4024-pae inverter (pre-wired with mmp and midnite classic 150 mppt); this inverter/charger will feed the power into a lifepo4 battery bank, and excess power will go to house/shop stuff while in charging mode. a pre-wired unit saves lots of wiring grief, and preps you for solar.
b.) 24v lifepo4 battery bank (two 12vx300ah amperetime batteries); this stores power from the genny, and feeds the inverter/charger for about 20 hours of the day. gets charged from genny about 4hrs per day.

3.) add solar panels to reduce genny runtime. feed into midnite classic portion of pre-wired unit. done. now genny runs only when solar isn't keeping up with load.

This is all in "off-grid" fashion, and you can just stay off-grid and be done. If, later, you want to go back on-grid, this will become a parallel system of power to the grid (not grid-tied). sort out transfer swiches and such so that only one system or the other is in control and feeding house/shop.

Such a system is powering just about anything, at 24v, for us. Parallel more inverters for larger loads, or increase system to 48v, and so on, if your loads are even larger, after ensuring everything is propane-based before being electric-based (propane hvac, on-demand water heaters, etc). Increase any piece of this to match your loads/capacity requirements (larger battery bank, etc)

Even if you do go back on-grid, all of this is there for backup if and when grid goes down ...

Scale all the pieces to fit your budget ...

Hope this helps ...

 

[MrM1]

Should be easy to do, in this fashion:

1.) start with propane fuel system and powerful genny; with auto-start and capacity, power for any load is always available, at the cost of genny running all the time.
a.) have propane service install 500gal (or larger) propane tank ... this is your fuel system.
b.) connect propane to large (minimum 12kw) propane generator.
- if needing auto-start, use a generac 22kw guardian standby genny or equivalent
- if not needing auto-start, use something like a duromax df12000eh or equivalent.
- both of these generate 120v/240v power; if you run the genny whenever you need power, you're done.

2.) add inverter/charger and battery bank, if you don't want to run the genny all the time; genny will now only run about 4hrs/day
a..) feed all the power into a magnum ms-4024-pae inverter (pre-wired with mmp and midnite classic 150 mppt); this inverter/charger will feed the power into a lifepo4 battery bank, and excess power will go to house/shop stuff while in charging mode. a pre-wired unit saves lots of wiring grief, and preps you for solar.
b.) 24v lifepo4 battery bank (two 12vx300ah amperetime batteries); this stores power from the genny, and feeds the inverter/charger for about 20 hours of the day. gets charged from genny about 4hrs per day.

3.) add solar panels to reduce genny runtime. feed into midnite classic portion of pre-wired unit. done. now genny runs only when solar isn't keeping up with load.

This is all in "off-grid" fashion, and you can just stay off-grid and be done. If, later, you want to go back on-grid, this will become a parallel system of power to the grid (not grid-tied). sort out transfer swiches and such so that only one system or the other is in control and feeding house/shop.

Such a system is powering just about anything, at 24v, for us. Parallel more inverters for larger loads, or increase system to 48v, and so on, if your loads are even larger, after ensuring everything is propane-based before being electric-based (propane hvac, on-demand water heaters, etc). Increase any piece of this to match your loads/capacity requirements (larger battery bank, etc)

Even if you do go back on-grid, all of this is there for backup if and when grid goes down ...

Scale all the pieces to fit your budget ...

Hope this helps ...

Agreed. Good roast map. I'd do 48v because voltage really has to be decide at the beginning and is difficult to change once locked in. I'd also consider an inverter like an Schneider sw or larger xw because they can interact with the grid later or with the xw can even sell back if desired.

 

[diyernh]

Should be easy to do, in this fashion:

1.) start with propane fuel system and powerful genny; with auto-start and capacity, power for any load is always available, at the cost of genny running all the time.
a.) have propane service install 500gal (or larger) propane tank ... this is your fuel system.
b.) connect propane to large (minimum 12kw) propane generator.
- if needing auto-start, use a generac 22kw guardian standby genny or equivalent
- if not needing auto-start, use something like a duromax df12000eh or equivalent.
- both of these generate 120v/240v power; if you run the genny whenever you need power, you're done.

2.) add inverter/charger and battery bank, if you don't want to run the genny all the time; genny will now only run about 4hrs/day
a..) feed all the power into a magnum ms-4024-pae inverter (pre-wired with mmp and midnite classic 150 mppt); this inverter/charger will feed the power into a lifepo4 battery bank, and excess power will go to house/shop stuff while in charging mode. a pre-wired unit saves lots of wiring grief, and preps you for solar.
b.) 24v lifepo4 battery bank (two 12vx300ah amperetime batteries); this stores power from the genny, and feeds the inverter/charger for about 20 hours of the day. gets charged from genny about 4hrs per day.

3.) add solar panels to reduce genny runtime. feed into midnite classic portion of pre-wired unit. done. now genny runs only when solar isn't keeping up with load.

This is all in "off-grid" fashion, and you can just stay off-grid and be done. If, later, you want to go back on-grid, this will become a parallel system of power to the grid (not grid-tied). sort out transfer swiches and such so that only one system or the other is in control and feeding house/shop.

Such a system is powering just about anything, at 24v, for us. Parallel more inverters for larger loads, or increase system to 48v, and so on, if your loads are even larger, after ensuring everything is propane-based before being electric-based (propane hvac, on-demand water heaters, etc). Increase any piece of this to match your loads/capacity requirements (larger battery bank, etc)

Even if you do go back on-grid, all of this is there for backup if and when grid goes down ...

Scale all the pieces to fit your budget ...

Hope this helps ...

Check fuel availability and price for your location. I've found that propane has weird pricing. Diesel has 1.5 x the amount of BTU's that propane has.

State & Alternative Fuel Provider Fleets: Fuel Conversion Factors to Gasoline Gallon Equivalents

I'm not knowledgeable of the magnum inverter/charger. I have a couple of Victron Multiplus Inverter/chargers. The Multiplus will boost the generators output by inverting battery power to AC, and then matching the inverted AC to the line in from the generator. You may not need a 22KW generator. For example air conditioning uses a lot of power to restart the compressor after it was running (high side pressure is high, causing the compressor to work hard... for a couple of seconds. The Multiplus will boost the generators input to take care of those peaks, later taking a little generator power to recharge the batteries.

California is banning smaller generators. I'm not sure how long they will permit backup generators. You may want to get it while it's still possible.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

How fast will they turn around your permit?
That repair is quick and simple.
Dropping $60K to hit your listed needs makes little sense with such a minor repair.

Adding solar: I’d buy in carefully. I just don’t think a non-grid incorporated solution is cost efficient.
As far as all those extension cords: stop that. Since your grid isn’t connected just quick fix the burned section’s wiring and connect up the entrance to the generator with the appropriate box and cord. You’ll probably want that as a backup solution anyway so just do it. Then you’ll have grid offset and backed by solar with a grid-down backup solution with the generator.

 

[havoc Sun]

Should be easy to do, in this fashion:

1.) start with propane fuel system and powerful genny; with auto-start and capacity, power for any load is always available, at the cost of genny running all the time.
a.) have propane service install 500gal (or larger) propane tank ... this is your fuel system.
b.) connect propane to large (minimum 12kw) propane generator.
- if needing auto-start, use a generac 22kw guardian standby genny or equivalent
- if not needing auto-start, use something like a duromax df12000eh or equivalent.
- both of these generate 120v/240v power; if you run the genny whenever you need power, you're done.

2.) add inverter/charger and battery bank, if you don't want to run the genny all the time; genny will now only run about 4hrs/day
a..) feed all the power into a magnum ms-4024-pae inverter (pre-wired with mmp and midnite classic 150 mppt); this inverter/charger will feed the power into a lifepo4 battery bank, and excess power will go to house/shop stuff while in charging mode. a pre-wired unit saves lots of wiring grief, and preps you for solar.
b.) 24v lifepo4 battery bank (two 12vx300ah amperetime batteries); this stores power from the genny, and feeds the inverter/charger for about 20 hours of the day. gets charged from genny about 4hrs per day.

3.) add solar panels to reduce genny runtime. feed into midnite classic portion of pre-wired unit. done. now genny runs only when solar isn't keeping up with load.

This is all in "off-grid" fashion, and you can just stay off-grid and be done. If, later, you want to go back on-grid, this will become a parallel system of power to the grid (not grid-tied). sort out transfer swiches and such so that only one system or the other is in control and feeding house/shop.

Such a system is powering just about anything, at 24v, for us. Parallel more inverters for larger loads, or increase system to 48v, and so on, if your loads are even larger, after ensuring everything is propane-based before being electric-based (propane hvac, on-demand water heaters, etc). Increase any piece of this to match your loads/capacity requirements (larger battery bank, etc)

Even if you do go back on-grid, all of this is there for backup if and when grid goes down ...

Scale all the pieces to fit your budget ...

Hope this helps ...

Everything sounds great except my ranch has no propane, no Tank, no lines, no furnace. It was all removed and replaced with a AC/Pro Mini (AC & Heat) per room as needed. In fact everything is electric. Water heater, washer, stove, etc. I am in the foothills of the San Bernardino mountains of California. I have no knowledge of dropping below freezing here. (not that high of elevation) So cold is not really bad here. And at worst it lasts for maybe a few months only. according to the evaluation that was done at time of install this system is supposed to be way more efficient than furnace heat. I can't confirm this because this was a upgrade done before I purchased the ranch. In fact when they were removing the furnace that's when the fire started. What I think I may end up doing is installing a off grid solar system that takes power from the grid when needed. Or when the solar system can't handle the demand it switches over to the grid. I just don't know how to build that yet. So I'm starting small, testing stuff, learning & growing the system as I learn. Currently we have bad reception here for phones, but they just dropped a underground cable line going to a large community down in the valley. They used my road, so I called spectrom and asked if they could feed my house with cable. The run was about 50-60 yards away but they did it! So I made a small 200w solar system that runs my cable modem & router. Now I can make perfect phone calls anywhere in reach of my router. It also runs LED lights in my garage & charges any USB device. Like phones! Currently its set for only 12volts. I do not have a inverter. I notice both my Cable modem & router were 12volts input. I just built a nice 12 volt bridge for those devices. I will have a video of the build soon.

 

[havoc Sun]

Agreed. Good roast map. I'd do 48v because voltage really has to be decide at the beginning and is difficult to change once locked in. I'd also consider an inverter like an Schneider sw or larger xw because they can interact with the grid later or with the xw can even sell back if desired.

I know I will build my solar system larger & with a inverter. But until I get my permits cleared to repair the fire damage from the city I can't do much. I am currently off grid with no power. I use a large generator most of the time & a small solar system all the time.

 

[havoc Sun]

Agreed. Good roast map. I'd do 48v because voltage really has to be decide at the beginning and is difficult to change once locked in. I'd also consider an inverter like an Schneider sw or larger xw because they can interact with the grid later or with the xw can even sell back if desired.

I know I will build my solar system larger & with a inverter. But until I get my permits cleared to repair the fire damage from the city I can't do much. I am currently off grid with no power. I use a large generator most of the time & a small solar system all the time.

 

[havoc Sun]

Check fuel availability and price for your location. I've found that propane has weird pricing. Diesel has 1.5 x the amount of BTU's that propane has.

State & Alternative Fuel Provider Fleets: Fuel Conversion Factors to Gasoline Gallon Equivalents

I'm not knowledgeable of the magnum inverter/charger. I have a couple of Victron Multiplus Inverter/chargers. The Multiplus will boost the generators output by inverting battery power to AC, and then matching the inverted AC to the line in from the generator. You may not need a 22KW generator. For example air conditioning uses a lot of power to restart the compressor after it was running (high side pressure is high, causing the compressor to work hard... for a couple of seconds. The Multiplus will boost the generators input to take care of those peaks, later taking a little generator power to recharge the batteries.

California is banning smaller generators. I'm not sure how long they will permit backup generators. You may want to get it while it's still possible.

In our area most ranchers our pulling there propane tanks out and going to grid electricity. I guess currently its a much cheaper way to go in our area. My ranch is fortunate that the system they decided to go with for all the heating & cooling needs is a state of the art brand new technology unit. I will do a video on it soon. My goal is to build a off grid solar system that can do most of the work of day to day living, yet be able to pull from the grid when needed. I find it very confusing here. Watching the videos of solar power most talk of huge panels, or mobil power for RV, or even buy back grid connected. I don't want any of those solar power units.