Unboxing of Deye 16K Hybrid Inverter

[robby]

AHHH....11KW??? Check this.
View attachment 127549

He has stated that his Transformer is limited to 11KW. Most of the ones for Solar Installs are limited to around that size.

 

[misterbubbacat]

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The video shows :-

1. The 16K is GRID Tie with 240V. For those that have no clue about how the US GRID delivers power, they are delivered at HIGH VOLTAGE in Single-phase. That's the same for the rest of the world. At the last leg of the power delivery, different countries choses the A. Frequencies 50 HZ (EU and the rest of the world) and 60 HZ (US) on the transformer they uses B. In EU, the step down voltage delivered is 230V . C. The US uses 240V with a middle tab on the transformer Split-phase L1(120V)-N(0V)-L2(120V delivery.

2. The 16K can be connected to the US GRID as is a 240V without any transformer and enter into Normal status. It WILL function in GRID-INTERACTIVE mode. It comes with a huge 300A CT to control the power flow, just like the Sol-Ark 15K. They are based on the same code base at Firmware level.

 

[robby]

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Where do we start here? I've clearly explained the rationale for the decision. The 16K is EU 230V single phase, with the L=115V N=115V are HOT just like our 240V; WITHOUT A NEUTRAL for Split-phase . In my application, I will be using an external Neutral from the Autotransformer. The 16K firmware CANNOT operate in Split-phase and shutdown with F08 error. If there is an ARC fault error or Ground fault error, the 16K WILL NOT provide any protection as this happens outsides of its operating perimeter and hence I need a AFCI/GFCI combo breaker for NEC compliance.

That is just displaying what the Grid is putting out. What would be interesting is to see what the Inverter puts out when some power is being drawn from the PV or Batteries and the inverter is Grid Interactive.

 

[Sebanavila]

He has stated that his Transformer is limited to 11KW. Most of the ones for Solar Installs are limited to around size.

Yeah, you are right, I forgot the transformer. My apologies.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

How could he feed the grid with Single phase 230V? I am pretty sure he would need another Transformer to Convert the Single Phase 230V to 115V Split phase and then comes the question of can the inverter boost the 115V enough to push back or equalize against the 120V from the Grid or if single phase can be used can the 230V go up to 240V?

The GTIL2s that I use are single phase. They are grid tie inverters that use batteries.. I cover all of my homes splitphase power usage 24/7.
the typical meters on almost all USA homes only see the homes power usage as if the home was using only single phase. The meter does not use neutral at all. You might ask how the homes meter/electric companies can accurately keep track when there’s different amounts of load on each leg. It’s actually rather simple the way it’s done.
Example; If there’s 20 amps at 120v load on one leg and 30 amps 120v on the other leg that is 50amps total at 120v.. However meter sees that as all 240v because the meter has no connection to neutral. but 50 amps at 240v isn’t correct so the meter simply always divides the amps it sees by .5. Which is 25amps at 240v. That is the same amount of watts as the homes was using 120v 50amps.. When the split phase homes loads are only 240v the meter still divides the amps by .5. The meter only has one Ct in it and both of the legs go thru it. The meter adds both the legs amps. If the homes loads were only 240v at 40amps, The meter would see that as double 80amps (instead of 40) at 240v due to both legs going thru the one Ct. The meter again ALWAYS divides the amps by .5 that the single CT sees. Now the meter sees 40amps at 240v.. The fact that meters read this way allows single phase inverters to feed into the grid and cover all of a splitphase homes loads.

most 230v single phase inverters I have read the specs for can raise the voltage to an acceptable amount for what’s needed in the USA.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

As to why he has it selected even though it does nothing, only he knows the answer.

He i guess was thinking that since 120v was showing on each leg that the inverter was able to output splitphase. But then hopefully/seemingly learned that‘s not 180degrees out/in phase. But then never said he was no longer using the splitphase settings. Then talked about AFCI/GFCI issues, but would have been helpful/easier to understand if he explained what settings allowed him to avoid those issues. I’d assume it was putting the inverter settings back to single phase for input and output. Then he talked about using an AFCI/GFCI breaker Like that somehow fixed his issue, but all that did was assure he had proper AFCI/GFCI protection for the inverter output loads panel.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

The second issue is that as my Installer friend down the road from me has said, he has yet to meet a utility company that is not strict when it comes to grid tied systems on their wires, and this guy should know. He has two separate teams of Installers and they average one Install everyday.
Almost every power company has algorithms in the billing software that alert them when you have more than 2-3 months of reduced usage below a set percentage. (They assume power theft is happening). Solar will always reduce your bill far enough to trip that alert and when they get there and they find an illegal Grid Tied system your going to have major issues.

In my area the inspector was just the typical basic home electrical inspector. All he did was check for an outdoor disconnect and simply glanced at my inverter and actually didn’t even make sure it was UL listed. Although it was a UL listed inverter at that time. In my opinion there’s nothing wrong with changing out a UL listed grid tie inverter (in your own home) with another non UL inverter if your capable of knowing it has proper AntiIslanding protection for the lineman.
I’m not so sure about those algorithms being in place.. there’s a lot of homes/rental for example that sit empty often and randomly with little power being used. And many other homes that switch to all energy efficient appliance. Or all the kids moved out.. That would all be an absolute nightmare to keep track of..

 

[Cheap 4-life]

That is just displaying what the Grid is putting out. What would be interesting is to see what the Inverter puts out when some power is being drawn from the PV or Batteries and the inverter is Grid Interactive.

Exactly. When he said it was showing 120v on each leg I tried telling him that didn’t matter because that wasn’t what the inverter was supplying/inverting to a load…

 

[Cheap 4-life]

The 16K can be connected to the US GRID as is a 240V without any transformer and enter into Normal status. It WILL function in GRID-INTERACTIVE mode. It comes with a huge 300A CT to control the power flow, just like the Sol-Ark 15K. They are based on the same code base at Firmware level.

For the single phase Deye to function/limit it’s grid tie output properly it must use 2 CTs (not one huge). If the single phase inverter is only using the single Ct it comes with then it can only see/cover the power the home is using on one leg the Ct is on.. That‘s why I asked (earlier in this thread) if your inverter has a spot to connect 2 CTs. If it does that would be a very good test to see if the inverter can actually utilize 2 CTs and therefore completely cover all of a split phase homes loads without feeding past the meter.

 

[eethon]

out of interest does anyone know how the Sol Ark and Sun Synk can have 200amp AC passthough but the Deye 16K only shows 100 amp passthough on the spec sheet?

 

[van-traveler86]

out of interest does anyone know how the Sol Ark and Sun Synk can have 200amp AC passthough but the Deye 16K only shows 100 amp passthough on the spec sheet?

I think is because is very comon in countries with 240v single phase to have a 100a feed in or less than 100a in USA is very common to have 200a feed in and i think it is because of the splitphase configuration.

 

[houseofancients]

I think is because is very comon in countries with 240v single phase to have a 100a feed in or less than 100a in USA is very common to have 200a feed in and i think it is because of the splitphase configuration.

to give my own example, in the Netherlands
have 3 phases coming into the house : 80 A each...

 

[eethon]

I think is because is very comon in countries with 240v single phase to have a 100a feed in or less than 100a in USA is very common to have 200a feed in and i think it is because of the splitphase configuration.

but is the Deye 16kw capable of 200 amps? what hardware is different that would reduce the passthough to 100 amps?

 

[Lt.Dan]

to give my own example, in the Netherlands
have 3 phases coming into the house : 80 A each...

Flip side of that, my home is 200a Split Phase in California, but my parents is 400a in Arizona.

 

[robby]

In my area the inspector was just the typical basic home electrical inspector. All he did was check for an outdoor disconnect and simply glanced at my inverter and actually didn’t even make sure it was UL listed. Although it was a UL listed inverter at that time. In my opinion there’s nothing wrong with changing out a UL listed grid tie inverter (in your own home) with another non UL inverter if your capable of knowing it has proper AntiIslanding protection for the lineman.
I’m not so sure about those algorithms being in place.. there’s a lot of homes/rental for example that sit empty often and randomly with little power being used. And many other homes that switch to all energy efficient appliance. Or all the kids moved out.. That would all be an absolute nightmare to keep track of..

Things are tightening up every Month. What you could get away with a year ago is not the same as today.
Power companies all over the Planet are taking home Solar a lot more seriously.

The algorithms are very real and I can assure you that they do use them.
They take into account that you might have be gone for a month on vacation etc. That is why they wait for a 3 month period to pass before sending someone out to check. It's not that big of a nightmare as you might think. They pass by the House and look at the meter for tampering and they also have some kind of handheld current device that they put up against the wall before and after the meter to take a measurement.
If Solar equipment like panels are visible but not noted on your account info they are going to note it and I suspect you will get a call within 24 hours about it.

 

[houseofancients]

Flip side of that, my home is 200a Split Phase in California, but my parents is 400a in Arizona.

but that is the point, because y'all are running split phase at 120v ( instead of here 230v 3 phase) , you will always run at higher amps for the same available power.

400 amps is some serious current to deal with

 

[SolarRich]

20 years ago when I installed my fully permitted and utility inspected PV system there was an issue. About 6 months after installation, I got a call from the utility. Basically they accused me of tampering with the meter. There was nothing I could do. I tried to go over the power readings they got off their meter and the power the PV system produced. They sent 'the goon squad' out a few days later. My power meter is not on the house. It's mounted on a plywood panel next to the house. So it's open from all sides for inspection. 4 guys got out of the van and looked it over for 15 minutes. They got back in the van and I never heard from them on this issue again.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Things are tightening up every Month. What you could get away with a year ago is not the same as today.
Power companies all over the Planet are taking home Solar a lot more seriously.

The algorithms are very real and I can assure you that they do use them.
They take into account that you might have be gone for a month on vacation etc. That is why they wait for a 3 month period to pass before sending someone out to check. It's not that big of a nightmare as you might think. They pass by the House and look at the meter for tampering and they also have some kind of handheld current device that they put up against the wall before and after the meter to take a measurement.
If Solar equipment like panels are visible but not noted on your account info they are going to note it and I suspect you will get a call within 24 hours about it.

My DIY system was commissioned mid Oct 22. Everything except the electric dryer and stove are fed from the AIO, which is also connected to grid. Dryer runs 3-5 cycles per week, stove is rarely used since I cook with the induction top, convection oven and pressure cooker primarily. I haven't been contacted, yet..? I'm working on a DIY ground mount that will be much more visible than 18 panels on the roofs. If they ever give me grief I'll politely ask them to disconnect my service and quickly purchase more batteries and a XW 6848...

Wow December sucked from a generation standpoint.

 

[robby]

My DIY system was commissioned mid Oct 22. Everything except the electric dryer and stove are fed from the AIO, which is also connected to grid. Dryer runs 3-5 cycles per week, stove is rarely used since I cook with the induction top, convection oven and pressure cooker primarily. I haven't been contacted, yet..? I'm working on a DIY ground mount that will be much more visible than 18 panels on the roofs. If they ever give me grief I'll politely ask them to disconnect my service and quickly purchase more batteries and a XW 6848...

Wow December sucked from a generation standpoint.

And that is why I will not get rid of the Grid. Your ROI extends for to many years if you start chasing methods to get around bad solar days.
The cheapest solution is to just use the Grid. It may cost a few hundred dollars per year to supplement those bad weather days but it's a lot better than the other options.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

Things are tightening up every Month. What you could get away with a year ago is not the same as today.
Power companies all over the Planet are taking home Solar a lot more seriously.

The algorithms are very real and I can assure you that they do use them.
They take into account that you might have be gone for a month on vacation etc. That is why they wait for a 3 month period to pass before sending someone out to check. It's not that big of a nightmare as you might think. They pass by the House and look at the meter for tampering and they also have some kind of handheld current device that they put up against the wall before and after the meter to take a measurement.
If Solar equipment like panels are visible but not noted on your account info they are going to note it and I suspect you will get a call within 24 hours about it.

I’d think the manpower needed to keep track of all that would be more than most electric companies have. I suppose I could be wrong. Seems to me like there’s many possible reasons for low electric bills for 3 months. Although I did get a visit from the electric company because they seen my panels on the roof. They then insisted on an inspection. I convinced them my low power usage was do to having a lot of my loads powered by my offgrid inverter. They left non the wiser. I later installed a UL grid tie inverter. I then had the inspector come back to pass my grid tie setup. Still to this day the inspector in my area knows basically nothing about solar. He might take it easier on me due to being an electrician. I suspect the inspector will not learn anything about solar unless they start some kind of incentive to go grid tie solar..