Up in the air on inverters

[grebaba]

I have decided to expand my starter system and trying to decide on my course of action.
When I started this journey I had no clue on what I needed so ordered the Renogy 400 watt kit and an extra 4 panels.
All so ordered a 3000W inverter to go with the kit.
Later I have bought 2 100 amp Epever CC's and just ordered 10 265W panels from Suntan solar. Installing the panels today and am 1/3 of the way though.
I want to switch to a 48 volt system but I have 6 200 AH agm batterys and just received 4 100 AH Li Time battery's and might order another 4 while the sale is on. That would leave me with 2 extra AGM's.
My problem is what converter to order with my limited budget.
I am looking at the EG4 6000 but am not sure how reliable they are. I like that they have everything build in so that would keep the cost down.
I am also looking at the Victron Quattro 3KVA 120 1Av charger, Victron Multi-plus-11 48-5000and the Schneider SW4048 3800W 48V. I like this one but when you add everything else you need to use it then it gets a little expensive and out of my budget.
I am looking to expand in the future and would like to buy the most reliable inverter I can afford.
I am open to any suggestion's under $2000 and all advice is much appreciated.
Thanks
Greg

 

[sunshine_eggo]

When I see someone considering non Tier-1 hardware vs. Tier-1 hardware, I will chime in for Victron.

Yes. They are definitely more expensive. They are also worth it if reliability is your primary concern.

The MPII is also availble in other powers and voltages. If you don't need the extra AC input (you can only use one at a time), the MP/MPII is the more practical and usually cheaper choice over a Quattro. I have two Quattro 48/5000 because that's all that was available in that power range when I bought mine in 2019. If I had the choice today, I would buy the MPII 48/5000, particularly with their UL approval pending.

 

[Danke]

Deye 8K can be had for about $2,200.

 

[Brucey]

Deye 8K can be had for about $2,000.

Split phase deye seems to be unavailable in US due to exclusive solark distribution agreement.

 

[Danke]

Split phase deye seems to be unavailable in US due to exclusive solark distribution agreement.

You can buy:

SUN-5/6/7.6/8K-SG01LP1-US | 5-8kW | Single Phase | 2 MPPT | Hybrid Inverter | LV Battery Supported Inverter Company, Supplier | Deye Inverter Technology

NingBo Deye Inverter Technology Co.,Ltd is China SUN-5/6/7.6/8K-SG01LP1-US | 5-8kW | Single Phase | 2 MPPT | Hybrid Inverter | LV Battery Supported inverter company and supplier。 The series, SUN-5/6K-SG01LP1-US SUN-7.6/8K-SG01LP1-US/EU, is a single-phase low voltage (48V) hybrid inverter ...

www.deyeinverter.com

 

[42OhmsPA]

My vote for Tier 1 would be Schneider at the top of the list with Midnite, SMA, Deye and Victron next.
My vote for 'Tier 2' would be SRNE at the top of the list with Lux Power and Voltronic next.

I have no personal experience with any of the mentioned equipment except SRNE and Voltronic.
I'm currently running an SRNE ASF but would recommend the SRNE HYP due to the ability to parallel and expand easily, the ASF split phase cannot be paralleled, yet.

I'm sure some will not agree with my recommendations, it's only my opinion.

 

[hankinohio]

follow

 

[Hedges]

You haven't defined your performance specifications.
120V or 120/240V? Continuous watts? Surge watts? watt hours per day, and per night?

Grid-backup or off-grid?

My favorite (all I work with) is SMA. Grid tie would require newer models, costing more. Off-grid can use second hand or new old stock.
The only way to hit $2000 budget would likely be one Sunny Island and one charge controller, for a 120V system. Dual Sunny Island plus Sunny Boy is what I prefer, but price is higher. With a transformer, could get by with single sunny island for 120/240V and maybe stay under $2000.

The all-in-one units will be simpler and cheaper, and maybe some of the HF inverters from top brands will hit your price point.

AGM's limited cycle life means it is good for grid backup or 15% DoD every night. Lithium is better for deep cycling every day (can get away with a small battery. But what will you do during overcast?) I run AGM with Sunny Island, but for lithium it would be nicest to have an (expensive) battery that communicates with it.

You may find a decent used system from somebody upgrading.

 

[grebaba]

Thanks for all the reply's. I have looked until my head spins.
What I am building the system for is grid backup.
I have a 14KW Generac natural gas for the house back up but year before last we had a few days of -17F weather and they were shutting off the NG supply in certain areas.
My use would be to keep the bare minimum of power for my survival in another odd ball weather event. Light's, electric blanket, freezer etc.
I won't need a everyday system I hope, how ever I want enough basic back up power for a few days.
While looking last night I found the Midnight solar diy MN 5048 that looks like it would do the job at a reasonable cost.
I checked the Deye and it seems like I would have to order from China so am not sure of how quick the support would be in case they invade Taiwan.
I am leaning to the Victron and Schneider at the moment but the Midnight soaor looks good too.
Anybody have any experience with it?
Thanks
Greg

 

[Hedges]

If battery only cycles during grid failures, AGM is a good choice. Quality brands should have 10 year float life, maybe longer with reduced capacity.
They're not cheap, can cost as much as LiFePO4, but for smaller systems AGM keeps it simple and economical.

LiFePO4 48V 100Ah server rack batteries cost $1200 to $1700.

AGM, similar price for SunXtender (4x 12V 100Ah) as an example. Or you can get smaller. Also available used, you might get lucky.

How many kWh do you need for a night?

Midnight DIY is relabeled Chineseum, although they feel the quality is good enough for them to resell. The other models they actually designed are highly regarded.

Victron, Schneider, SMA, Outback, Midnight (other than DIY), and some others are Tier-1.

No motor loads other than freezer? Then the lightweight HF inverters should be fine.
Freezer doesn't need to be powered at night, OK to just turn on when the sun shines, but automation of that would be convenient.
Freezer's defrost cycle and ice maker are heavier loads to be avoided. You can switch off ice. You could add as switch to the defrost heater circuit and disable it.

You can add lots of PV panels inexpensively. Mounting hardware may cost more than panels, depending on how you do it. But then you'll want to use the PV for daily loads too, and selection of inverter determines whether blending with or switching to/from grid power works well.

 

[grebaba]

Thanks for the reply.
I guess that eliminates the MS DIY. My nightly use will be less then 1 KW if I figure it right. I will just run the fridge, freezer, some LED lights, and my small radio for a few hours a night, and my electric blanket if we lose our NG supply.
I can turn off the ice maker with no problem because it is full all the time and I live alone.
I think I need to check out the SME and Outback as I haven't looked at them yet.
As to adding more panels I am limited because of space and shading. I can maybe add another 10 panels to my shop roof but would get reduced output at least as long as my 80 foot is still standing.
I will use a manual switching to turn on the solar when needed but will wire in grid power just in case.
I guess I am real lucky as when I was installing my ground mount yesterday the county tax assessor drove by. He went by 3 times so I think my tax bill will go up next year.
Greg

 

[Hedges]

Midnight DIY may be OK, just know what you're getting.
Support and warranty will be from one of the best companies.
You may find equivalent cheaper from other sources.

Outback had robust inverters, sealed and vented, grid-tie and not. Those were relatively low efficiency. Newer models are high frequency design, hybrid with PV input, etc.
Victron is highly regarded. Mostly aimed at mobile and 230V only applications, but some split-phase models.

Using a 240V single phase inverter with auto-transformer added to provide 120/240V split-phase is generally problematic; avoid that and get an inverter that supports split-phase. Or 120V single phase only, if that's what you want.

Some inverters switch to pass-through grid power when available. Understand whether they switch neutral and bond ground (needed for mobile) or not and use accordingly.

Maybe you're unlucky PV gets assessed for property taxes. In California, ours are exempt for installs through 2026, I believe.

One way to get more watts of PV is to install higher efficiency cells. Percentage efficiency = wattage rating / m^2 area / 1000
They used to be around 13%, now 20% plus. I put in panels 20 years ago, bought newer ones recently.
Figure out what yours are. Rating, also if degraded (measure Isc in full direct sun.) Maybe selling those and buying others would give you a 50% boost.

 

[grebaba]

I really won't need 220V for what I intend to do. 120v will be fine.
There is no way I could afford to power my shop off solar with the equipment I have in it. A 10 HP compressor, paint booth, 5 different welders, car lift, mill, lathe, and other machines.
On the panels I just bought these 265W panels and hope to make them last for a few years. I might order another 10 and be able to make them fit in my area and hope they work. Right now I have 3450 W of panels. I don't mind buying more panels because they are affordable but space is a problem. I am in Oklahoma and they don't really offer any solar tax breaks except for the federal tax break.
I did look at the SME but still need to check out the Outback.
Again thanks for the advice.
Greg

 

[42OhmsPA]

The Midnite DIY is made by SRNE.
Based on personal experience I think It's Some Really Nice Equipment...