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UTILIZING GRID TIE INVERTER OFF GRID - $100 REWARD FOR SOLUTION

SamG340 said:
If you went for separate components rather than an 'all in one' you get to pick and choose what you need

If you want to run big motors / machines you'll want a low frequency inverter like this or others:
www.ebay.com

10000W DC24V/AC110V,220V Low Frequency Split Phase Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter | eBay

10000W Low Frequency Split Phase Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter. Max Output Power 10000W. I sold the inverter about 10more years, most of is HF INVERTER(made by mosfet), even it's 5000w inverter. You may not get very satisifed answer, that's the big difference!
www.ebay.com
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Not suitable because:

I have 220VDC to work with, why would i want to go down to 24VDC and the come back to 240VAC

Its inefficient
 
joesmith123 said:
"Deliver 60 amps at 12v or 48v" - where does this apply? My understanding: 220VDC (prius) -> mightnight classic PV input -> House panel split phase 240VAC
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The Classic could draw from 220V traction battery and deliver ~ 60A at 12V (720W) or at 48V (2880W) to charge a different battery system. A bit more watts at whatever slight higher voltage.

From there you can run a 12V to 120V or 48V to 120V inverter. With modest 48V battery (e.g. four car batteries in series) you could start and run some larger tools, given a decent inverter.

timselectric said:
I would go with an AIO that is capable of battery less operation. You don't need an extra battery because you don't need a buffer. Since the traction battery is a stable power source.
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Do that with extra battery. What it draws from PV input (your traction battery) is limited in current and likely ramps up slowly.
With a 48V starting battery bank, you can draw 700 "cranking" amps to kick over a large motor [edit - HV inverter, so only as much starting current as it was designed for; some are]. It will then recharge and float, drawing from lithium traction battery.

This is what I would like to do to add lithium to my Sunny Island AGM system.
 
Why would the traction battery have a problem ramping up? It's just a battery. Unless there's something else between the battery and the AIO.
 
timselectric said:
I would go with an AIO that is capable of battery less operation. You don't need an extra battery because you don't need a buffer. Since the traction battery is a stable power source.
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Yes totally, although there are plans to put solar panels, but i do see many inverters have 2 solar inputs, I would use 1 from the prius, and the other from the panels
 
timselectric said:
Why would the traction battery have a problem ramping up? It's just a battery. Unless there's something else between the battery and the AIO.
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The AIO thinks it is fed by PV and it ramps current draw up or down to implement MPPT.
Some AIO have HV DC rail shared by inverter, MPPT, bidirectional battery charger (SolArk)
If the MPP is just PV to battery, would definitely be slow (since batteryless, likely to HV caps). Otherwise, your surge is whatever comes from HV capacitor.

An inverter designed for good surge will be better for starting motors. Some old brands, and Midnight Rosie does 2x rated output for 60 seconds (but that isn't hybrid, no PV input.)
 
Hedges said:
The AIO thinks it is fed by PV and it ramps current draw up or down to implement MPPT.
Some AIO have HV DC rail shared by inverter, MPPT, bidirectional battery charger (SolArk)
If the MPP is just PV to battery, would definitely be slow. Otherwise, your surge is whatever comes from HV capacitor.
Click to expand...

So @joesmith123 would need a few batteries as well as that MPP solar all in one ?
 
Hedges said:
The AIO thinks it is fed by PV and it ramps current draw up or down to implement MPPT.
Some AIO have HV DC rail shared by inverter, MPPT, bidirectional battery charger (SolArk)
If the MPP is just PV to battery, would definitely be slow (since batteryless, likely to HV caps). Otherwise, your surge is whatever comes from HV capacitor.

An inverter designed for good surge will be better for starting motors. Some old brands, and Midnight Rosie does 2x rated output for 60 seconds (but that isn't hybrid, no PV input.)
Click to expand...
It should just ramp up it amp draw. Shouldn't be a problem because the voltage won't drastically drop.
Mine runs battery less from solar without issue. As long as there isn't a lot of clouds.
 
On second thoughts, maybe not. If MPPT's PV wattage is similar to its battery inverter wattage, he may be correct that path from traction battery is good enough. Maybe vendor has specs for batteryless backup, maybe not. The question is starting surge. Starting a motor typically takes the better part of one second. I think that would significantly draw down voltage on capacitor (I've measured 1% ripple at 120 Hz for GT PV). It may ramp up boost from battery faster than buck from PV. Or maybe not.

If surge capability exceeds PV input wattage rating, then I would think "starting" batteries would help.

timselectric said:
It should just ramp up it amp draw. Shouldn't be a problem because the voltage won't drastically drop.
Mine runs battery less from solar without issue. As long as there isn't a lot of clouds.
Click to expand...

How is its motor starting capability?

Compare Rosie, 48V battery inverter spec 8kW and 15kW 60 second surge. It managed to kick over a 5 HP air compressor (which I estimate is 30kW surge) but shut down seconds later.
 
Hedges said:
The Classic could draw from 220V traction battery and deliver ~ 60A at 12V (720W) or at 48V (2880W) to charge a different battery system. A bit more watts at whatever slight higher voltage.

From there you can run a 12V to 120V or 48V to 120V inverter. With modest 48V battery (e.g. four car batteries in series) you could start and run some larger tools, given a decent inverter.



Do that with extra battery. What it draws from PV input (your traction battery) is limited in current and likely ramps up slowly.
With a 48V starting battery bank, you can draw 700 "cranking" amps to kick over a large motor [edit - HV inverter, so only as much starting current as it was designed for; some are]. It will then recharge and float, drawing from lithium traction battery.

This is what I would like to do to add lithium to my Sunny Island AGM system.
Click to expand...

The classic setup would involve ANOTHER inverter, if I am reading correctly

Ideally I would want 1 inverter to handle the situation

"PV input is limited in current and likely ramps up slowly" I dont think so, since that traction battery can run a 3000 lb car for a few minutes up 25 mph, meaning it has high current
 
Ampster said:
Have you found many 220VDC systems? it may seem inefficient but cost effective is another form of efficient use of dollars.
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Dont many off grid solar inverters accept 200-500 VDC? I can plug the prius right into the high voltage input
 
Hedges said:
On second thoughts, maybe not. If MPPT's PV wattage is similar to its battery inverter wattage, he may be correct that path from traction battery is good enough. Maybe vendor has specs for batteryless backup, maybe not. The question is starting surge. Starting a motor typically takes the better part of one second. I think that would significantly draw down voltage on capacitor (I've measured 1% ripple at 120 Hz for GT PV). It may ramp up boost from battery faster than buck from PV. Or maybe not.

If surge capability exceeds PV input wattage rating, then I would think "starting" batteries would help.



How is its motor starting capability?

Compare Rosie, 48V battery inverter spec 8kW and 15kW 60 second surge. It managed to kick over a 5 HP air compressor (which I estimate is 30kW surge) but shut down seconds later.
Click to expand...
Starts my 12kbtu A/C, and my vertical air compressor.
Can't remember what it's HP is. But it's a decent starting surge.
 
SamG340 said:
Yes I think so.

You could also do it with sperate components, but this MPP solar inverter is a one-step solution. simple
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Yes I dont like having multiple components, this definitely looks promising

And with setup, later I can add solar panels?

1 input prius, 2nd input solar panels -> house panel

Will that work?
 
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