Victron is Over-priced Eurotrash. Why would anybody buy Victron over an AiO?

[cs1234]

You went from a 150v Victron to a 250v Growatt. Imagine what you could do with a 250v Victron

Walk a little faster with my lighter wallet.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

At least a year before I discovered this forum, I was aggressively making my own mistakes. Mistake #1: 141Voc vs. 150Voc max on a MPPT 150/100. I only had a single 3S string with 5 more strings in the container as that's all I needed to keep things online.

Fortunately, my panels are at the lower end of the ±3% variation in Voc rating, and I rarely get over low 130s in STC conditions.

Then I finally found the reference in the manual from four years ago that explicitly stated 2S 72 cell panels and 3S 60 cell panels on a 150V controller. Fortunately, I discovered this before it got too cold.

Solution? Rewire the panels to 2S? Hell no. That would have been 9P and would have blown the 70A PV input current limit. Pay the stupid tax and upgrade to a 250/100, swap it out and sell the 150/100 at a discount to some fortunate soul.

 

[curiouscarbon]

iPhone is loosely based on Unix.
Who uses unix?
And iPhone gives you zero access to the Unix architecture

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as macOS, is in fact, Darwin/macOS, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Darwin plus macOS. macOS is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another proprietary component of a fully functioning Darwin system made useful by the Darwin corelibs, shell utilities, and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the Darwin system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of Darwin that is widely used today is often called macOS, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the Darwin system, developed by Apple Inc.

There really is a Darwin, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Darwin is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Darwin is normally used in combination with the macOS operating system: the whole system is basically Darwin with macOS added, or Darwin/macOS. All the so-called macOS versions are really versions of Darwin/macOS!

 

[Brucey]

At least a year before I discovered this forum, I was aggressively making my own mistakes. Mistake #1: 141Voc vs. 150Voc max on a MPPT 150/100. I only had a single 3S string with 5 more strings in the container as that's all I needed to keep things online.

Fortunately, my panels are at the lower end of the ±3% variation in Voc rating, and I rarely get over low 130s in STC conditions.

Then I finally found the reference in the manual from four years ago that explicitly stated 2S 72 cell panels and 3S 60 cell panels on a 150V controller. Fortunately, I discovered this before it got too cold.

Solution? Rewire the panels to 2S? Hell no. That would have been 9P and would have blown the 70A PV input current limit. Pay the stupid tax and upgrade to a 250/100, swap it out and sell the 150/100 at a discount to some fortunate soul.

The logical end game for the Victron ecosystem seems to be a minimum of two 450/100 (for redundancy). Isolation of the PV array and a bunch of additional features that the 250s don't have, for not a lot more. Actual voltage limit being 8*battery float voltage I believe and 18A per tracker with the 450/100s having two strings each?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

The logical end game for the Victron ecosystem seems to be a minimum of two 450/100 (for redundancy). Isolation of the PV array and a bunch of additional features that the 250s don't have, for not a lot more. Actual voltage limit being 8*battery float voltage I believe and 18A per tracker with the 450/100s having two strings each?

If I had been aware of the 450/100 at the time, I would have considered it over the 250/100. There might be a 450/200 in my future.

 

[webbbn]

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as macOS, is in fact, Darwin/macOS, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Darwin plus macOS. macOS is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another proprietary component of a fully functioning Darwin system made useful by the Darwin corelibs, shell utilities, and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the Darwin system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of Darwin that is widely used today is often called macOS, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the Darwin system, developed by Apple Inc.

There really is a Darwin, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Darwin is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Darwin is normally used in combination with the macOS operating system: the whole system is basically Darwin with macOS added, or Darwin/macOS. All the so-called macOS versions are really versions of Darwin/macOS!

Darwin may have been developed by Apple, but they acquired the core of it from NeXT computer, which ran on the Mach microkernel, which was developed by CMU and DARPA, with a POSIX layer largely based on BSD Unix, which, of course, was developed at Berkley, based on the original Unix, which was brought to us by the one and only Ma Bell!

 

[JRH]

Your expectations of “should” seems to be the outlier in everything I’ve seeing in specification and data sheets.

Why have a spec if it’s meaningless?

Either was sounds like your grow watts are suiting you’re needs, glad you’re happy.

“ Should have” ……everyone knows if you do somthing wrong , the manufacturer
“should have” known in advance and prevented it…that why they invented crystal balls eons ago.

 

[webbbn]

“ Should have” ……everyone knows if you do somthing wrong , the manufacturer
“should have” known in advance and prevented it…that why they invented crystal balls eons ago.

(Note: Must be read in a Dana Carvey voice)

I don't know what the world is coming to these days! Back when I was a kid we didn't have to wear seatbelts! If we did, all they were good for was to keep us from flying through the windshield so our head could hit the metal dashboard! If you dropped a toaster in the bathtub, you know it! Now you probably just have to go outside and reset your ground fault GFCI interrupter thingy. When I was a kid, the Christmas tree bulbs were big and glass, and you learned the hard way to unplug them before you stuck your finger in them to twist them out! And we liked it!

 

[JRH]

(Note: Must be read in a Dana Carvey voice)

I don't know what the world is coming to these days! Back when I was a kid we didn't have to wear seatbelts! If we did, all they were good for was to keep us from flying through the windshield so our head could hit the metal dashboard! If you dropped a toaster in the bathtub, you know it! Now you probably just have to go outside and reset your ground fault GFCI interrupter thingy. When I was a kid, the Christmas tree bulbs were big and glass, and you learned the hard way to unplug them before you stuck your finger in them to twist them out! And we liked it!

Well , since yer gonna take a shot , Yep.. it’s called live and learn..become better.. don’t depend on others to think for ya ….take responsibility for actions or inaction. . Nanny state thinking will be a great selling point in the coming years…run for office… you will probably win …?

 

[webbbn]

Well , since yer gonna take a shot , Yep.. it’s called live and learn..become better.. don’t depend on others to think for ya ….take responsibility for actions or inaction. . Nanny state thinking will be a great selling point in the coming years…run for office… you will probably win …?

That, of course, was just some fun, but, we do live and learn, and I hope the includes manufacturers. I don't see how improvements in safety or reliability of products can be a bad thing.

 

[G00SE]

Anyone got a spare Time Machine laying around? I wanna go back to when webbbn was a kid. It’s not as fun here

 

[Brett V]

getting this thread back on track...

 

[G00SE]

Oh you’re wrong for that one @Brett V ?

 

[Kiwi2000]

I have constructed two separate modest off-grid systems on my house. One system is using 3 Epever SCCs and the other system is using 2 Victron SCCs and a Victron smart shunt and Phoenix 12/1200 inverter.

Now having lived with both systems for a while, I feel the Victron gear is worth every cent! The user interface with the bluetooth apps. Being able to network the components together with bluetooth. The accuracy and predictability to which I can control battery voltage. The data logging where I can see max PV voltage and wattage for every single day is very useful and is streets ahead of what Epever provides.

I did buy the Epever bluetooth adaptor for their SSCs but it was very flaky and didn't connect 90% of the time. That was a waste of money.

The Victron SCCs spend the entire day trying to eke out every last watt from first thing in the morning while the Epevers sometimes randomly can't be bothered to get going in the morning and stay at a very low wattage output.

The Victron gear gives me far more confidence that it is going to last for years providing safe reliable operation. That peace of mind alone is money well spent I feel.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

"The Roadtrip packs a Victron electrical system with 110-Ah AGM battery or available lithium upgrade"

Sprinter Van conversion from Europe starts at $200,000

European "yacht on wheels" camper van journeys onto American market

The world keeps getting brighter for Americans lusting after European camper vans with no recent history of US availability. Westfalia is officially on its way back to market, Volkswagen will soon have an all-electric van canvas with which converters can work, and now Las Vegas' Caleche Customs is…

newatlas.com

 

[Brucey]

"The Roadtrip packs a Victron electrical system with 110-Ah AGM battery or available lithium upgrade"

Sprinter Van conversion from Europe starts at $200,000

European "yacht on wheels" camper van journeys onto American market

The world keeps getting brighter for Americans lusting after European camper vans with no recent history of US availability. Westfalia is officially on its way back to market, Volkswagen will soon have an all-electric van canvas with which converters can work, and now Las Vegas' Caleche Customs is…

newatlas.com

Yeah can't imagine them throwing in a Voltronics or other Chinese screamer in something that's outfitted like a yacht. No doubt many of the prospective owners of this 200k+ sprinter van conversion also have Victron gear in their boat(s).

 

[JRH]

Yeah can't imagine them throwing in a Voltronics or other Chinese screamer in something that's outfitted like a yacht. No doubt many of the prospective owners of this 200k+ sprinter van conversion also have Victron gear in their boat(s).

Haaa. The level of scrutiny big boat owners have to endure when rigging their boats is insane.

The owner cannot afford to buy cheap....

BUT… if your Musk or Gates or just filthy rich and have a fabulous yacht.. and put a 1990s Radio Shack Optimus solar Gizmo inside ….eveyone at the ships party will whisper that they are considering going “retro“ too.
it’s a shallow world up there…!!

 

[G00SE]

Saw a comment on here last night about @Adam De Lay YouTube. So that’s how my evening was spent.
Holy cow. Really a 3kwh difference per day in idle watts vs your 6500s!?
Awesome stuff!

 

[rustythorn]

The EV is going to be a PITA. Like an electric range on high it just sucks it down without stopping This is from the 30th:

View attachment 165579

I'm tracking HVAC, EV, and HWH/Dryer along with totals, all roll-my own sensors and software. I bought an EV switch to limit demand for my electric HWH and Clothes dryer to only one of the two. You might find one of these boxes useful for limiting demand, but if you are grid tied, it really doesn't matter as much. I'm controlling the EV outlet by a RS-485 relay board and an SBC, a simple HWH timer could do something similar. Frankly if your primary concern is payback time, and you are just going to grid tie, the micro-inverters are the way to go, but once you add batteries it gets more complicated. The newer AIO's actually simplify this as well, and allow for much higher string voltages.

It kind of depends on how much you want to dink around with it. The problem with component systems of any kind is they tend to cost significantly more, but they do give you the ability to scale and replace functionality independently. Once the cost of an integrated system is low enough the management cost of components begins to dwarf the scaling benefit. Integrated systems tend to improve more rapidly as engineering designs take advantage of the close coupling of the components, and the ability to optimize both production and capability around a known stable set of hardware. I can assure you that over the long term, seperate MPPT's, Inverters, and the like will be relegated to edge case products, where an AIO just won't work.

On the battery front, a lot of folks are saving real coin by rolling their own BMS systems on free-standing cells. I think this too will eventually become less and less prevalent as batteries with integrated BMS systems become more plug and play, and the prices drop to the point rolling your own really doesn't save money. In particular if we actually see some of the new battery tech actually come to fruition, expect to see BMS control via CAN bus to become increasingly standardized, and just built-in. Right now the cost of batteries in general and a desire not to have to replace them every year will make this transition much longer than the AIO side.

Whatever your path enjoy the travel!

you can get a lower powered EVSE they go down to 6 AMP

 

[wattmatters]

you can get a lower powered EVSE they go down to 6 AMP

I'm about to install an EVSE with OCPP, connected to the ChargeHQ service and it will moderate the power flowing into the EV based on how much excess solar PV is available. My EV will accept power in 1 A increments anywhere from 6 A (~1.4 kW) to 28 A (~6.6 kW).

I hope at some stage to take the control local with my own automations but the Charge HQ option is pretty neat.