Victron MultiPlus Compact 24/2000/50 Continuous Load

[bikenanigans]

I'm trying to design a setup that can power a 1440W blender for a few minutes at a time and have a continuous load question. I'm currently leaning towards the Victron MultiPlus Compact 24/2000/50 (fed by two 12V 100Ah Battleborns in series) but in the spec sheet it lists a continuous output of 2000VA/1600W. After reading into VA versus W I've gotten confused as to if this unit will be a able to power the blender with enough headroom. Every other 2000W inverter spec sheet I look at isn't as detailed as Victron's and just lists 2000W continuous load. So I'm wondering if they just aren't being as detailed as Victron or if the MultiPlus falls short in the continuous watts department. Or I really don't understand VA. Anything is possible and I'm hoping someone can aid me in deciphering this and determining if the MultiPlus will suit my needs. I'd rather not spec up to the 24/3000 if I don't have to.

Spec sheet: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...inverter-charger_2kVA-and-3kVA-120V-US-EN.pdf

 

[burtinator]

Does the blender actually use that much? Have you checked this with a power meter? Cause 1440W seems like a lot for a blender (at least it does to me)

 

[bikenanigans]

Does the blender actually use that much? Have you checked this with a power meter? Cause 1440W seems like a lot for a blender (at least it does to me)

I’ve been meaning to but I haven’t yet. I guess I’m planning on worst case scenario currently.

 

[Justin Laureltec]

@bikenanigans , The upside here is that Victron actually means their 1600w continuous rating, so you should be totally fine running 1440 through it, particularly with 100Ah of LFP at 24v behind it. A lot of cheaper (and not-so-cheaper) inverter manufacturers rate their inverters way over actual capability (coughcough Xantrex), but Victron's a known stickler for meeting their technical specifications. Granted for my non-critical stuff I still use a $199 CAT 1kW inverter that I picked up at Home Depot because it's actually perfectly fine up to about 800 watts... but for anything I was counting on, I'd take a Victron hands-down because I trust them to actually deliver the wattage they advertise.

The VA vs Watt rating thing is weirdly complex... our owner did a not-so-dense writeup of it a few years ago, it may be worth a read for you: https://baymarinesupply.com/blog/converting-va-to-watts/

Personally I have no doubt the MultiPlus Compact will run that blender, though.

 

[bikenanigans]

Thank you @Justin Laureltec! After all my research I had a feeling that was the case, Victron being more honest about specs and real world capabilities. I’ve definitely overloaded myself on info during this process so having knowledgeable people to lean on is much appreciated!

 

[Justin Laureltec]

Thank you @Justin Laureltec! After all my research I had a feeling that was the case, Victron being more honest about specs and real world capabilities. I’ve definitely overloaded myself on info during this process so having knowledgeable people to lean on is much appreciated!

Always happy to help!

 

[krby]

I'll confuse the issue a little bit As Justin pointed out to me when we were going back and forth on a kit order he helped me with, the Victron 24/3000 is only $129.20 more than the 24/2000. The 3000VA is heavier, but only a bit larger. If you think you might want to go above 2000VA, it's a pretty low cost upgrade. If you purchase before the end of the year, you can get a discount from Bay Marine.

 

[johntaves]

I'm trying to design a setup that can power a 1440W blender for a few minutes at a time and have a continuous load question. I'm currently leaning towards the Victron MultiPlus Compact 24/2000/50 (fed by two 12V 100Ah Battleborns in series) but in the spec sheet it lists a continuous output of 2000VA/1600W. After reading into VA versus W I've gotten confused as to if this unit will be a able to power the blender with enough headroom. Every other 2000W inverter spec sheet I look at isn't as detailed as Victron's and just lists 2000W continuous load. So I'm wondering if they just aren't being as detailed as Victron or if the MultiPlus falls short in the continuous watts department. Or I really don't understand VA. Anything is possible and I'm hoping someone can aid me in deciphering this and determining if the MultiPlus will suit my needs. I'd rather not spec up to the 24/3000 if I don't have to.

Spec sheet: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...inverter-charger_2kVA-and-3kVA-120V-US-EN.pdf

I have one of these. I am happy with it, but need to sell mine. I am getting the electrodacus SBMS0 which sends a signal to the loads and chargers to shut off. The victron multiplus compact has a switch that can be remote. It let's you select off, charge only, or invert/charge. I need to control the charge and invert separately.

I am planning on getting a separate inverter and separate charger for the LiFePo4 pack.

Have you purchased yours? If not, buy mine.

 

[krby]

I have one of these. I am happy with it, but need to sell mine. I am getting the electrodacus SBMS0 which sends a signal to the loads and chargers to shut off. The victron multiplus compact has a switch that can be remote. It let's you select off, charge only, or invert/charge. I need to control the charge and invert separately.

IIRC, you can setup one of the virtual assistances in the VictronConnect software to take incoming signals from a BMS that will tell the Victron to turn off charging and/or inverting. The Victron forums (or someone here who knows more about this than I do) can help.

 

[johntaves]

IIRC, you can setup one of the virtual assistances in the VictronConnect software to take incoming signals from a BMS that will tell the Victron to turn off charging and/or inverting. The Victron forums (or someone here who knows more about this than I do) can help.

I will check again, but I think that is not true for the multiplus compact (emphasis on "compact"). I don't think this one will connect to the other victrons via that communication bus, or accept the blue tooth dongle.

 

[krby]

@Justin Laureltec Can you confirm? Can someone use an external BMS with the MultiPlus Compact and then the Lithium virtual assistant?

 

[johntaves]

@Justin Laureltec Can you confirm? Can someone use an external BMS with the MultiPlus Compact and then the Lithium virtual assistant?

Give me a few minutes. I am re-reading the manuals to get the proof that is needed.

 

[johntaves]

Give me a few minutes. I am re-reading the manuals to get the proof that is needed.

I cannot delete, so I apologize for the thread clutter.

So far as I can tell there is no difference between the Multiplus and Multiplus Compact from a feature or electrical connections standpoint. The two manuals are not identical, but in terms of connections and remote, they seem to be identical. This means my impression that the Compact was different is dead wrong. However, my thinking is scrambled so I am enumerating the situations:

A) As far as I can tell, the VE.Bus is used for settings, and not control. I can plug mine into the USB on my computer and see the action and change settings. I will confirm that there's nothing programmable in the UI that I misseed.
B) I have put a remote switch on mine. It is 3-way: off/charge only/charge+invert, switch. Thus from that standpoint, there is no way to get only invert.
C) They have a remote panel that kicks my simple 3 position switch out of the way, but as far as I can tell it supports the same off/charge only/charge+invert settings.

I think there are 4 scenarios:
1) shore power, dead batteries -- The BMS will turn off loads and leave chargers on. This charge only setting is possible on the Multiplus. Since there is shore power, the multplus will supply amps to the battery, (and also I should have A/C in the RV from shore).
2) no shore power, dead batteries -- This should be fine too. The BMS will shut off the loads, which leaves the multiplus ready to charge if we plugged in to shore.
3) shore power, full batteries -- The BMS shuts off charging. This should be OK, because I should be able to get shore power passed through the off unit. Unfortunately that does not happen. When the unit is off and connected to shore, the shore power is not passed through.
4) no shore power, full batteries -- The BMS shuts off charging, but that will also shut off the inverter. This is also a problem.

This is annoying because 3 and 4 are fundamentally not an issue. If we have shore power and full batteries, we need nothing from the multiplus, except to pass through the shore power, so its off position should be fine. If we have no shore power, and full batteries the multiplus cannot charge, so it's on position should be harmless.

I will review with Dacien at Electrodacus and see what he knows.

I just found that the Multiplus has "Two programmable analog/digital input/output ports These ports can be used for several purposes. One application is communication with the BMS of a lithium-ion battery." but the Compact does not have that sentence. However I have failed to find further information to back that sentence up.

 

[Justin Laureltec]

Yes, the Compact has fundamentally the exact same functionality as the full-size Multi or, for that matter, the Quattro line as well... so, yes, the dongle works the same, the VE.Bus communication/control works the same, etc... but unfortunately, unless the 3rd-party BMS is communicating over VE.Bus or CAN Bus through a GX device, it can't tell any of the Multi or Quattro line to shut off or switch modes or anything else. All actual control over a VE.Bus device must come from a connected GX device... That's why the list of compatible BMS / batteries is so short... if it hasn't been proven to reliably interface with a GX device, it's not on the list.
...that being said, I've certainly heard of workarounds to that, but unfortunately due to my position with my company and as direct support to Victron, I am unable to advise on anything that's not manufacturer-approved... and given the risk of voiding the warranty through non-approved connections/communications protocols, it's a risky endeavor anyway.

FWIW, I will note that both the Smart Dongle and/or a GX device like the CCGX or an internet-connected Venus, etc., so long as they're running the current FW, enable an "inverter only" mode. VE.Bus is used for a high degree of control over the MultiPlus/Quattro line - just not all of it user-accessible. For instance, in an ESS system, the GX device manages the battery charging entirely, including telling the Multi to ignore AC input (thus, place itself in inverter-only mode) as long as there is solar charge coming in unless loads exceed the solar charge, and lots of things like that. In this case, Victron has recently (as of a few iterations of Venus OS ago) made the "inverter only" mode user-accessible through a VE.Bus Smart Dongle or a GX device so long as the dongle or GX device and the VE.Bus product are all running current FW.

...I'm not sure any of that helps, but it never hurts to have information out there!

 

[johntaves]

FWIW, I will note that both the Smart Dongle and/or a GX device like the CCGX or an internet-connected Venus, etc., so long as they're running the current FW, enable an "inverter only" mode. VE.Bus is used for a high degree of control over the MultiPlus/Quattro line - just not all of it user-accessible. For instance, in an ESS system, the GX device manages the battery charging entirely, including telling the Multi to ignore AC input (thus, place itself in inverter-only mode) as long as there is solar charge coming in unless loads exceed the solar charge, and lots of things like that. In this case, Victron has recently (as of a few iterations of Venus OS ago) made the "inverter only" mode user-accessible through a VE.Bus Smart Dongle or a GX device so long as the dongle or GX device and the VE.Bus product are all running current FW.

Thanks for that info, I was pulling my hair out to make sense of this.

Is there some victron product that will accept a simple open/close for charge and same for invert and plop those instructions onto the VE.bus?

jt

 

[johntaves]

From Dacien's forum, they referred me to https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...battery-systems-to-Multis-and-Quattros-EN.pdf

Quoting that document "The Multi or Quattro needs to be of a recent type that has auxiliary inputs. "

I found that aux input in the Multi manual, but it is not in the Multi Compact manual.

Thus, my original belief, that the Multi Compact was not quite the same as a Multi was correct. Plus there are probably different vintages of the Multi that do and don't have the aux.