Why Use Solar Over Gas Generator? (Newbie Question)

[CircuitsActivated]

Hello everyone. I am new to solar and am learning. It sure seems like the solar generator is a hot topic at the moment. I am interested in solar or a gas generator for back up or emergency use. It seems to me that solar generators are expensive and limited when it comes to powering 120 volt items. For example, it is winter and twenty outside. You have a space heater that draws 600 watts to heat a small room. A 1500 watt hour unit would run that heater for 2.5 hours...then no more heat. A Honda inverter generator would run that heater for eight hours or longer. Add a bigger fuel can and it would run it for days non-stop. Same goes for a window AC, a fridge, a toaster, etc. I am not trying to debate or argue at all. Am I missing something? If you buy say a Honda EU2200I inverter generator and take care of it, it will last for decades in an emergency situation. Meanwhile technology will have made a Jackery or Bluetti obsolete. Please show me my flaw and help me understand an learn. I love the idea of solar but the cost of entry seems very expensive if you want a system capable of providing the ability to cook, run a fridge, cool a room, heat a room, etc. Not running everything at once like grid power, but the ability to not be cold in a blackout for three days....or without AC in a room in 100 degree heat. I see a Jackery or Bluetti good for charging a smartphone or laptop but not for much more than that. What am I missing?

 

[Hedges]

Yes, that sums it up pretty well.
PV costs 1/10th as much as fossil fuel if you use it year round. Running A/C from PV works well with a sufficiently large system.
Generator is a fraction the capital cost for a given wattage, and fuel can be stored for use when needed, including winter and when there isn't sun.
(Consider shelf life of whatever fuel is used.)

 

[CircuitsActivated]

Yes, that sums it up pretty well.
PV costs 1/10th as much as fossil fuel if you use it year round. Running A/C from PV works well with a sufficiently large system.
Generator is a fraction the capital cost for a given wattage, and fuel can be stored for use when needed, including winter and when there isn't sun.
(Consider shelf life of whatever fuel is used.)

In a nutshell the up front cost of fossil run stuff is less expensive, yet over time the solar powered setup is less expensive to operate? I can see where solar power would be fantastic in an RV or 14x14 cabin. As a back up power system for emergency use, there is a lot to think about.

 

[Hedges]

RV used occasionally, PV would be quiet so more pleasant, but expensive.
I've had grid-tie PV for 18 years. I added battery backup in the past year. That isn't cost-effective, but is nice because the house just keeps running like normal, and A/C is powered no problem.
Grid-tie PV today can break even with utility bills in about 3 years (depending on rules in your location.)
Battery inverters that can start large motors aren't cheap. Batteries are also expensive, although DIY may offer storage of a kWh for about the same price as generating a kWh with PV.
There are some PV direct options like grid-tie inverters that could power a refrigerator without batteries, a free perk you get with the system.

 

[efmrrt]

I've opted to go with a solar generator. Here is my reasoning: Looked at a whole house generator and due to the fact that I have a guest house approx cost $10k for wiring, generator, etc. Issues - overkill, expensive, placement would be an issue, most likely place would be an alcove on the back and opposite side of the house from the electrical box. Portable generator - again about 3k up front. Most of that due to wiring. Cons - have to go out and get the gen from the shop, plug it in, noise, security issues, a fair amount of back end issues - servicing/maintenance, storage, fuel storage. Solar generator - cons & upfront costs approx. $3k (will finish assembly tomorrow and post) & we live in the 8th cloudiest place in the country, positives - stores in basement, very small foot print, quite, convenient, back end min. maintenance, wife can flip the switch, portable, provides power to what we need (LR, kitchen, tankless H2O heater, gas furnace (if needed)). So depending on the time of year we could have between 2-7 days of autonomy.

We lost power about 12 times last year, usually for a couple of hours on average. A few outages lasted 6-14 hrs. Typically they usually occur from late spring to fall. Can't remember the last winter outage. After doing a lot of thinking, research, etc. the solar generator was the solution. Additionally it paves the way for future projects. One of which I've wanted to do for the last several years is getting solar into the current shop. Also the future shop I would like to power all lights and some outlets (120) by solar.

 

[deeuubee]

Why? Because you like to walkaround the neighborhood and hug the one or two trees around (kidding)
No, you're not missing anything. We're all trying to save the world and a few bucks if possible.
The term "solar generator" is just this generations snake oil term like "wind power" was decades ago.

In a backup/emergency situation:
1. solar with battery back-up is good to keep the lights on.
2. you need the generator for occasional high power items.
3. you need propane for the heaters.
4. you don't need to charge your phone, the cell towers down too

No offense to the off-grid people. You have no choice, and you live way way different lifestyles than on-grid people.

 

[deeuubee]

I've opted to go with a solar generator. Here is my reasoning: Looked at a whole house generator and due to the fact that I have a guest house approx cost $10k for wiring, generator, etc. Issues - overkill, expensive, placement would be an issue, most likely place would be an alcove on the back and opposite side of the house from the electrical box. Portable generator - again about 3k up front. Most of that due to wiring. Cons - have to go out and get the gen from the shop, plug it in, noise, security issues, a fair amount of back end issues - servicing/maintenance, storage, fuel storage. Solar generator - cons & upfront costs approx. $3k (will finish assembly tomorrow and post) & we live in the 8th cloudiest place in the country, positives - stores in basement, very small foot print, quite, convenient, back end min. maintenance, wife can flip the switch, portable, provides power to what we need (LR, kitchen, tankless H2O heater, gas furnace (if needed)). So depending on the time of year we could have between 2-7 days of autonomy.

We lost power about 12 times last year, usually for a couple of hours on average. A few outages lasted 6-14 hrs. Typically they usually occur from late spring to fall. Can't remember the last winter outage. After doing a lot of thinking, research, etc. the solar generator was the solution. Additionally it paves the way for future projects. One of which I've wanted to do for the last several years is getting solar into the current shop. Also the future shop I would like to power all lights and some outlets (120) by solar.

Please, please, please tell me how you're running the tankless water heater on a solar generator.
My small tankless water heater draws 110 amps @ 220V. I need a 16Kw generator just for that which I refuse to get.
When the power goes out, we have a small 10 gallon electric water heater run off the generator for the ole quick military shower.

 

[blackhandle]

Honestly, for me it was mostly because of convenience and peace. If you have a large generator then it's going to use fuel in a tank and that tank has to be huge. A couple years ago I was running to the gas station to fill up another 20 gallons of gas for my generator because we were in an extended outage in the winter and I slid off the road and into a guard rail. That cost me a lot and my wife hasn't let me forget it.

And don't even get me started on what it's like filling a running generator with gas. That makes me nervous in a big way.

I get that there are some that run on propane tanks but let's be honest... if you're using that propane for other things and you happen to be running low right in the middle of an outage you're probably not going to be getting it refilled any time soon unless you're using the 20# tanks.

I can go 1.5 days with the tesla powering my most important circuits and that's before the solar starts dumping power back into it.

 

[blackhandle]

Please, please, please tell me how you're running the tankless water heater on a solar generator.
My small tankless water heater draws 110 amps @ 220V. I need a 16Kw generator just for that which I refuse to get.
When the power goes out, we have a small 10 gallon electric water heater run off the generator for the ole quick military shower.

If it's a LPG or NG water heater it needs 120v to keep power to the unit and sense when to start the flame.
My suggestion to people that really want to have hot water when on solar power only would be to get one of the portable RV units that run from 20# propane tanks. You'll get about 1.6gal/minute of water out of it but they work well and will keep you from blowing through your batteries and they're real misers when it comes to the propane usage.

Similarly, a pellet stove uses energy to start the flame, run the fan, and run the hopper but once it's lit you are only running the fan and the hopper and it uses very little power. I put a vent between floors with a fan and can heat most of my house in the winter with just the pellet stove in a pinch. It works out being more cost effective than the heat pump because heat pumps are inefficient (or at least mine is) when it's under 35 degrees. (I don't even have the heat pump loads backed up because the pellet stove makes them unnecessary.)

 

[ereams65]

End of the day, it's not a bad practice to have both a FF generator along with some solar, for those of us that live on the coast in Florida anyway. I dont' see how solar can even come close in terms of cost, but at the same time, I've also lived through what happens when there's total black out and your gas runs out, so having the solar option is a blessing. Lets face it, if you live "off grid", you have no choice and costs isn't a factor. Because at the end of the day, it's till a LOT cheaper to just plug into the grid, like I am right now, typing this useless comment.

 

[efmrrt]

Please, please, please tell me how you're running the tankless water heater on a solar generator.
My small tankless water heater draws 110 amps @ 220V. I need a 16Kw generator just for that which I refuse to get.
When the power goes out, we have a small 10 gallon electric water heater run off the generator for the ole quick military shower.

Natural gas tankless H2O. I've even run it on a 750 watt inverter and a car battery. Electric is needed for the thermostat and ignition source. Very low draw/usage.

 

[deeuubee]

Natural gas tankless H2O. I've even run it on a 750 watt inverter and a car battery.

LOL, makes sense now. I was reading too much into it. I run the wood stove fan off the car battery too.
I have frequent power outages in upstate NY. Sometimes it gets down to -5.
I've gotten long in the tooth and Soooo tired of chopping wood as a back up.
I just put in a 500 gallon propane tank to run a small 8K generator as needed and two small fireplaces when the power goes out in the winter.
I'll be putting in some solar and batteries to keep the lights on this year and only running the generator as needed.
I'm doing solar and LiFEPO4 now for my RV. It's amazing what you don't need when the power goes out

Just a PS - my town doesn't want non-grid tie systems on the roof, so I'm gonna have to be creative.

 

[Hedges]

If you set up an inverter/charger and batteries that can take in most of the generator power, then it only needs to run a short time.

I use 6kW Sunny Island (you can buy for around $2000), which is good at managing lead-acid batteries and can auto start generator. But lead-acid accepts a limited charge current and requires hours for absorption. That would be best if you have enough PV, or if generator is required for several hours anyway.

Lithium can typically accept 0.5C or 1C (so long as not near freezing), and doesn't require full recharge or absorption. Charging does tail off above 90% SOC, so with a generator just stop at that point.

 

[efmrrt]

LOL, makes sense now. I was reading too much into it. I run the wood stove fan off the car battery too.
I have frequent power outages in upstate NY. Sometimes it gets down to -5.
I've gotten long in the tooth and Soooo tired of chopping wood as a back up.
I just put in a 500 gallon propane tank to run a small 8K generator as needed and two small fireplaces when the power goes out in the winter.
I'll be putting in some solar and batteries to keep the lights on this year and only running the generator as needed.
I'm doing solar and LiFEPO4 now for my RV. It's amazing what you don't need when the power goes out

Just a PS - my town doesn't want non-grid tie systems on the roof, so I'm gonna have to be creative.

Where in Upstate? I'm just north of Syracuse. I know NYC people think of Upstate as Kingston area.

 

[deeuubee]

Where in Upstate? I'm just north of Syracuse. I know NYC people think of Upstate as Kingston area.

Lake George. My cousin thinks Westchester is upstate

 

[efmrrt]

Lake George. My cousin thinks Westchester is upstate

I've got friends in Warrensburg - heading there the 3rd weekend in May.

 

[chrisski]

I use solar for low wattage items on my RV, but when the truly high draw items are on, out comes the generator. Much quieter that way.

My solar on my RV powers the low wattage stuff, and can run a propane heater fan when its cold all night, and run the LED lights, but not much more. I've got two days of power for that. If I don't need heat, probably two weeks. I turn the microwave on for more than one or two reheats, on comes the generator. Same thing for air conditioning.

 

[OnTheRoadAgain]

I have 4 gasoline powered generators of various sizes and just recently purchased my first "Solar" generator.

For HOME use during emergencies, I would recommend you have an Inverter generator of at least 2000watts on hand and minimum 10 gallons of fuel. Correction, regardless of any other power sources you may have, I still recommend a small (2000watt - 1600watt) gasoline or propane generator simply because of their long run time on a small amount of fuel.

I bought the Jackery Solar Generator because I had $500 burning a hole in my pocket and I love "gadgets"

If you want a super convenient power source, the Solar Generator is great, but keep in mind it's limitations.
For phone charging and casual use, up to 500watt hours is probably good.

If you're going to get "serious" about using the Solar generator for overall power you need to look at 1000watts and up IMO.

I have two 2000watt generators that sip fuel on ECO mode such that I can power nearly everything I need on ONE GALLON for about two days.

Unless you have completely bright Sun available, a solar generator can let you down and re charge times can be long.

No matter where I go or where I am, I will have one of my gasoline generators on hand to back up the Solar Generator.
One of my 2000watt generators was under $300 brand new and is of very good quality.

ymmv

 

[Woody]

I’ll toss my two cents in here.

You should typically have a fuel based generator to backup any off grid system because there can be more days than the alternative power system was designed for. For example, poor quality wind, cloud cover, frozen hydro generator system, ... You could enjoy the break from having electrical power or with a fuel generator, recharge up your batteries and enjoy all those electrical gadgets.

I know lots of people who have remote weekend cabins/trailers that have solar systems that are sized to recharge their batteries in a few days. Since they are normally there only 2-3days no problem. But stay the week or longer, well no power. Solution, run the generator. This allows the best of both worlds. Want to run a heavy load like an AC unit, fire off the generator. Only need lights, radio,.. little loads, use the alternative power. Alternative power is quiet unlike a generator. After all, you‘re out in the remote area to enjoy the peace and quiet of nature so you don’t want the constant noise from the generator. Lastly, if you have to run the generator all day, having battery system allows for generator to go off at night since you typically don’t have the need for much power. Just enough power to turn a light on to see your way to the bathroom/kitchen and a DC water pressure pump to have water to wash/flush with, run a small fan, ... So use both, they complement each other.

 

[CircuitsActivated]

I have 4 gasoline powered generators of various sizes and just recently purchased my first "Solar" generator.

For HOME use during emergencies, I would recommend you have an Inverter generator of at least 2000watts on hand and minimum 10 gallons of fuel. Correction, regardless of any other power sources you may have, I still recommend a small (2000watt - 1600watt) gasoline or propane generator simply because of their long run time on a small amount of fuel.

I bought the Jackery Solar Generator because I had $500 burning a hole in my pocket and I love "gadgets"

If you want a super convenient power source, the Solar Generator is great, but keep in mind it's limitations.
For phone charging and casual use, up to 500watt hours is probably good.

If you're going to get "serious" about using the Solar generator for overall power you need to look at 1000watts and up IMO.

I have two 2000watt generators that sip fuel on ECO mode such that I can power nearly everything I need on ONE GALLON for about two days.

Unless you have completely bright Sun available, a solar generator can let you down and re charge times can be long.

No matter where I go or where I am, I will have one of my gasoline generators on hand to back up the Solar Generator.
One of my 2000watt generators was under $300 brand new and is of very good quality.

ymmv

Thank you. I live on a fixed income due to blindness. I am looking strictly at “keep you alive” type solutions on a budget of $1400 or less. I am not trying to power the 5000 square feet home with $100k in solar while making a six figure income. LOL I live with my parents on a small farm. I help take care of a 70 and 73 year old adult. The idea here is to be able to do the following:

charge smartphone and iPad
run a cpap
(kilowatt values listed)
run a toaster 800 watts
coffee maker 1350 watts
hot plate to make food 1000 watts
run a room space heater 600/900/1500 watts
power the cable modem/wifi
run a 5 watt usb light bulb
Power a 5000 btu window AC to cool one room on a 95 degree day.
the idea is make your coffee and unplug it. Cook your food and unplug it.
The entry cost of solar seems high, yet you buy it once and done. You buy a 2200 watt inverter Honda and then you have to buy gas, keep gas fresh, change oil, adjust the valves over time, etc. All that is easy to do but adds cost over time. If you buy a Jackery 1000 lets say, it will not run the coffee pot, might run the hot plate but not for long. That is my issue with solar, it gets expensive to start very quickly. If you make $500k a year it is no big deal, but on a fixed income it is a bit different. Not trying to debate, just learn. You folks know far more than me about this.