Wiring SRNE inverter/charger to a distribution panel

[Doogs]

Hello,
I have a SRNE HF2340U60-100 all in one inverter. It is going in an off-grid cabin, with a 120V generator wired to the AC input, 1400W solar array, and 120V AC output wired to a distribution panel. The problem I am having is that there is no ground terminal on the AC out, and I can't get any information from SRNE about how to properly ground this thing. There is a ground on the AC IN, and a ground lug on the case (see picture). Is the assumption made that the ground wire pictured here is going to the panel, which is then grounded by a rod? Or is it going directly to a ground rod?

Also no mention in the manual about neutral bonding. Has anybody else set one up that could offer some insight?

​

 

[Kornbread]

Grounding kornfuses the heck out of me, but I have to wonder if the inverter bonds ground and neutral internally?

 

[Steve_S]

It maybe a "Cheat" but the Midnite Solar "DIY" All in Ones are SNRE Products with a bit of Midnite Specs Magic but maybe their docs would be more enlightening.
Check Here:

Product Documents - MidNite Solar

MidNite Solar's list of Product Documents.

www.midnitesolar.com

 

[Cabinfever]

Hello,
I have a SRNE HF2340U60-100 all in one inverter. It is going in an off-grid cabin, with a 120V generator wired to the AC input, 1400W solar array, and 120V AC output wired to a distribution panel. The problem I am having is that there is no ground terminal on the AC out, and I can't get any information from SRNE about how to properly ground this thing. There is a ground on the AC IN, and a ground lug on the case (see picture). Is the assumption made that the ground wire pictured here is going to the panel, which is then grounded by a rod? Or is it going directly to a ground rod?

Also no mention in the manual about neutral bonding. Has anybody else set one up that could offer some insight?View attachment 82170

​

Did you figure this out please. I am purchasing the same model and would like to know?

 

[Doogs]

Did you figure this out please. I am purchasing the same model and would like to know?

I decided to ground my panel with a grounding rod and ground the inverter on the panel's ground bar. Apparently, this inverter bonds internally. It's hard to get a straight answer from the manufacturer or anybody else. I definitely would not recommend this unit to anybody considering it.

 

[Cabinfever]

I decided to ground my panel with a grounding rod and ground the inverter on the panel's ground bar. Apparently, this inverter bonds internally. It's hard to get a straight answer from the manufacturer or anybody else. I definitely would not recommend this unit to anybody considering it.

Well that's discouraging as I was about to purchase. Are there other issues surrounding the unit? Any help is appreciated since there is not much info out there on SRNE.

 

[Doogs]

Well that's discouraging as I was about to purchase. Are there other issues surrounding the unit? Any help is appreciated since there is not much info out there on SRNE.

Yes, it has other problems as well.
1) Problems with larger loads. I bought it because it is advertised as being able to handle a 2hp motor. I have mine running a 3/4hp shallow well pump, and my LED ceiling lights dim and flicker significantly when it comes on.

2)High idle power consumption. It has a power save mode, but see #3

3)Power save mode requires too large a draw to "wake up". I need to turn on like 4 or 5 lights (standard 120v A19 LED bulbs) just to get something to come on. Makes it annoying when coming in the house at night and having to fumble around in the dark.

4)Seems to charge when it wants to. Ignores set parameters. For example, it will sometimes let my battery drop to 50% before it will allow charging.

5)Wiring it is a pain. The connectors inside are garbage and the holes for the wires to go through are not standard size, so you have to use their crappy little plastic strain relief things. The battery cable terminals are also a stupid size. It calls for 2AWG cables but the cable lugs need to be #10/M5 size. Try finding those. You can use 1/4" lugs but then you have less contact area. As an added bonus, it doesn't come with hardware and doesn't tell you what size screws to use, so you have to guess the diameter, thread, and length.

6) It's LOUD. It's like having a leaf blower in your house.

7)Tech support is non existent. They just won't answer you. Ever. No matter how many times you email.

 

[Cabinfever]

Well that makes my decision easy. Thanks for your insight, money is too hard to come by to waste it on junk.

 

[Aerial Gopher]

I just bought one of these, and its not super loud, it has two fans on it that are variable speed. I have not load tested it, but the inverter has shut down, but I think that is due to my wrong - only had this wire - size to hook it up for testing. so i think its the voltage drop thats causing it to shut off the inverter.
I cannot for the life of me get the data to populate for the wifi device. and the guy i bought it from on ali express keeps sending and replying with the same info. The wifi device is connected, all 4 lights on, device added to account for the app, but always says offline. device does make connection to an IP address for ALibaba Group ISP and it sends data. so where the problem.. who knows

 

[mbp566]

Does anyone has more info on this ?
I bought the HF4850U80-H (5kW 500VOC). Here in Japan I set it up to output 100V.
Basically it works, but the AC output neutral is NOT bonded to ground.
I measure about 200V between earth and neutral, as well as between live and earth. It seems not stable though, a bit like if the phase was slowly shifting (when I start to measure it's like 230V but it loses about 1V/second. I haven't wait to see how low it goes)

The output of the inverter is connected to a distribution panel that includes an earth leakage breaker + 8 individual breakers. When I press the test button of the ELD it does not trip. I think it is because neutral is not bonded to earth, but is it safe to do the bonding at the distribution panel ?
(PS: I'm aware of the issue of double bonding in case AC input is connected to the grid, but I'm fully off-grid with no input connected at all, not even a generator)

 

[12VoltInstalls]

device does make connection to an IP address for ALibaba Group ISP and it sends data. so where the problem.. who knows

That is an undesirable trait imho
I lack trust in back doors

 

[Aerial Gopher]

That is an undesirable trait imho
I lack trust in back doors

The funny thing, it started to work without me doing anyhting after 2 days.

Interestingly enough, there is an option to shut off the inverter from the app. And yes, it actually does do it. This is kind of alarming, becuase they ask you to enter the address, the size of the "plant" or solar array, and just details that are nto important to an inverter. It will only matter in a time of war, when commands can be sent out to disable solar installs. :-( Who knows. I wish there was a better way....

https://solar-assistant.io/

Not sure where this is based, but the system looks amazing. Just not for the SRNE inverter - yet.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

wish there was a better way....

Not using ‘connected’ equipment works for me

 

[Aerial Gopher]

Well, i have the Wifi Dongle Pro for the SRNE, and they finally gave me a web address to get tot he online stuff. Just cant find how to get the data from the inverter, the datalogger shows up though. says its online.

DessMonitor

www.dessmonitor.com

UPDATE: Unplug Wifi Dongle and replug fixed the issue. Site has data now, Even can export to excel.
Note, same account credentials that were used as on Mobile app

 

[Doogs]

Got some more insight on the ground-neutral bonding. The information I had received about internal bonding was incorrect. It transfers the neutral and ground from AC IN to AC OUT when running from grid or generator. If being run from a bonded panel or generator, you'll have bonded neutral and ground at the output. If being fed from a floating neutral generator, there will be no bond.
Here's where it gets interesting: SRNE "tech support" finally emailed back. They are completely clueless about the technical aspects of this inverter. They say feeding a bonded distribution panel "maybe will damage the unit". When asked about GFCI outlets, the response was "maybe it will trip".

 

[mbp566]

Got some more insight on the ground-neutral bonding. The information I had received about internal bonding was incorrect. It transfers the neutral and ground from AC IN to AC OUT when running from grid or generator. If being run from a bonded panel or generator, you'll have bonded neutral and ground at the output. If being fed from a floating neutral generator, there will be no bond.
Here's where it gets interesting: SRNE "tech support" finally emailed back. They are completely clueless about the technical aspects of this inverter. They say feeding a bonded distribution panel "maybe will damage the unit". When asked about GFCI outlets, the response was "maybe it will trip".

Thanks for the info. I am still waiting for a response (and not expecting much) from them so this is very valuable to me.

I also confirmed that AC IN bonding is transferred to AC OUT. I haven't tried with a generator, but when connecting AC IN to the grid (where earth and neutral are bonded), then earth and neutral are also bonded at the output. I used a simple multimeter to check this (0 volts between E-N on both sides).
I am also not very confident to bond earth to neutral at the output, as I can imagine it might cause issues with the inverter internals.

So my thinking now is to bond earth to neutral at the input. Basically a short wire between earth and neutral at the AC IN terminal. This way it's pretty much the same as if it was connected to the grid, except that the live terminal would not be bonded to anything, but I don't see where this could create any issue/damage to the inverter.
Anyway, I'm still considering as I'm well aware of the mess it will be to have the inverter fixed if it gets damaged, so if anyone can comment on this idea, please let me know.

Thanks.

 

[Mattb4]

Hello,
I have a SRNE HF2340U60-100 all in one inverter. It is going in an off-grid cabin, with a 120V generator wired to the AC input, 1400W solar array, and 120V AC output wired to a distribution panel. The problem I am having is that there is no ground terminal on the AC out, and I can't get any information from SRNE about how to properly ground this thing. There is a ground on the AC IN, and a ground lug on the case (see picture). Is the assumption made that the ground wire pictured here is going to the panel, which is then grounded by a rod? Or is it going directly to a ground rod?

Also no mention in the manual about neutral bonding. Has anybody else set one up that could offer some insight?View attachment 82170

​

I have a very similar Easun model I just received today. Like you I was at first confused why there was no AC out ground connection. However by reading the install instructions and ignoring the image I could see it does have one. The AC out grounds to the case of the unit. It would have been easier to know this if the wiring image had showed a 3 wire cable with the ground split away rather than the two wired pictured.

Now concerning things like neutral bonding. I am guessing that when using pass through from the mains the Inverter is acting as a sub panel so by code it has neutral unbonded to ground. Code requires only one place that neutral gets bonded and that would be at the main power panel.

My intention on when wired to another panel for loads I will not bound the neutral of that panel but I will ground the panel. This ground will act as ground back to the inverter from the AC out ground connection.

I hope this helps anyone stuck on how to wire the unit.

 

[MrBadger]

Going through EXACT same issue...weeks looking into this, searching everywhere....so far I conclude from what my electrician said, the sales rep, videos watched...
1. have no A/C input otherwise risk of ground looping.
2. the SRNE will be the main panel and the subpanel connected via a/c output has seperate ground and neutral bus bars.
3. manual and tech support both say to ground the a/c out to the screw on outside of the srne box.
4. my electrician said and the manual also says to ground this terminal screw to Earth plate or ground earth rods as close as possible to the SRNE.

so would it ever be safe for me to connect A/C input into this SRNE? for example an extension cord from the house.....like from a receptacle that's just a normal 15 amp breaker? no one can or will answer me about the a/c input specs. it can draw 40 amps apparantly at 110v....well sheesh wouldn't that trip a 15 amp breaker? clueless and no responses anywhere therefore forced to charge the battery directly from a charger while battery is turned off (turning off battery is safe enough to protect the srne?) or should i also disconnect the battery from the srne while charging battery? the srne would also be turned off so....i've no idea if the charger's ground can sneak past the lifePo's turned off breaker while its charging and get beyond it to the srne..... any ideas?

 

[MrBadger]

I have a very similar Easun model I just received today. Like you I was at first confused why there was no AC out ground connection. However by reading the install instructions and ignoring the image I could see it does have one. The AC out grounds to the case of the unit. It would have been easier to know this if the wiring image had showed a 3 wire cable with the ground split away rather than the two wired pictured.

Now concerning things like neutral bonding. I am guessing that when using pass through from the mains the Inverter is acting as a sub panel so by code it has neutral unbonded to ground. Code requires only one place that neutral gets bonded and that would be at the main power panel.

My intention on when wired to another panel for loads I will not bound the neutral of that panel but I will ground the panel. This ground will act as ground back to the inverter from the AC out ground connection.

I hope this helps anyone stuck on how to wire the unit.

are you still following this thread? i think my previous post means the same thing you said in your last post...not sure.

 

[Mattb4]

Going through EXACT same issue...weeks looking into this, searching everywhere....so far I conclude from what my electrician said, the sales rep, videos watched...
1. have no A/C input otherwise risk of ground looping.
2. the SRNE will be the main panel and the subpanel connected via a/c output has seperate ground and neutral bus bars.
3. manual and tech support both say to ground the a/c out to the screw on outside of the srne box.
4. my electrician said and the manual also says to ground this terminal screw to Earth plate or ground earth rods as close as possible to the SRNE.

so would it ever be safe for me to connect A/C input into this SRNE? for example an extension cord from the house.....like from a receptacle that's just a normal 15 amp breaker? no one can or will answer me about the a/c input specs. it can draw 40 amps apparantly at 110v....well sheesh wouldn't that trip a 15 amp breaker? clueless and no responses anywhere therefore forced to charge the battery directly from a charger while battery is turned off (turning off battery is safe enough to protect the srne?) or should i also disconnect the battery from the srne while charging battery? the srne would also be turned off so....i've no idea if the charger's ground can sneak past the lifePo's turned off breaker while its charging and get beyond it to the srne..... any ideas?

Certainly it is safe to connect AC in to the unit. You well not have ground looping if you use house ground and do not install separate ground system. Recall that you said you would not be providing AC in.

If you only have a 15 amp connection AC In that is the maximum you can expect to use to charge and run loads with when in Util mode. First off understand that you can only charge from Utility when in pass through or AC bypass operation. Even if you select SNU charging mode operation the inverter only does one thing at a time either charge or invert.

So you likely would need to limit Utility charging current quite a bit to prevent tripping the 15a AC in supply. Also any other loads you need to power from the AC out to distribution box. If you want to charge the battery with a separate connected charger you just need to make sure the charger has the right profile to charge your battery type. No need to disconnect anything. Battery charging output is positive and negative. It does not have a ground lead.

BTW. The SRNE is not the Main panel. It is akin to a Meter Panel if operating as the only AC source. It is like a UPS when operating off inverter with AC in connected. Thus the next panel is either a subpanel or it becomes the Main panel depending on mode.