Wondering why're many people still building 12/24v system ?

[crossy]

Fwiw I just squeezed a 58V wire, hard with a dry hand to verify that I couldn't feel any kind of shock, so just as easy to work on as 24V.

IIRC the first RN sailor recorded to have died from electric shock was killed by a "48V" bus-bar.

Apparently, he got trapped between the bars and had broken skin (reducing his body resistance), cooked slowly!

Take care with any 'lectric and remember all those amps lurking inside even a 12V pack.

 

[pollenface]

seeing a baby on the cliff edge and turn a blind eye...
seeing a poor set up and the lips are zipped....
is that you sir ?
lol.....,

what's your objective here? Troll and make fun of 12/24v users?

 

[JJJJ]

Very happy at 24v. Meets the needs and allows flexibility if fewer panels are used. It is also easier to move the DIY battery cases LOL.

If one were starting from scratch I could see how 48v could be appealing. Each level 12/24/48 has its own unique challenges.

 

[Madcodger]

Greeting all,
Noticing lots of people here still think about building a new/huge system @ 12 or 24v
is it no debate that 48v is the only way to go ? it's everything better !
unless the new system is very small, sub 500w or upgrading from an even smaller one
Am I missing anything ?
happy harvesting ppl,

When I built my 24V system, I didn't know any better and thought I was saving money and being safer. I love my little 24V system and plan to use it for years, but if I could do it all over again I'd go straight to 48. Neither of my earlier beliefs were really true, for me. Live and learn...

 

[Woody]

Why 12V….because solar parts are everywhere! From Walmart, HD, Lowe’s, Autozone, Oriel’s, NAPA, Harbor Freight, Tractor Supply, Bass Pro,….

12V systems in a disaster situation can help more people. Solar arrays based off 12v nominal panels even configured for other voltages (24, 36, 48,…) could be disassembled and a single 12v based panel could be given to someone to recharge their car battery so that they can power all sorts of 12v items. Ideally they should have a charge controller but they can be the controller and manually connect/disconnect the panel to the battery. Point the panel to the sun….Yeah lots of potential problems but one could. Not saying it’s a perfect solution but is a MacGyver fix.

24v or higher voltage makes it more difficult in finding replacement items quickly and easily. The local US stores typically don’t carry much inventory for 24v or higher products. Sure you might be fortunate to have a local solar supply shop where you are, otherwise you’ll have to “order” them. No problem, you just wait for the delivery to implement your repair. You can do without power for awhile. If it was a 12v based piece of equipment, you could just go to the local auto parts/box store for a replacement part and have the repair done.

12v is for DC based loads (radios, lights,…) and in general for micro solar systems with low to moderate alternating current (AC) power needs. Higher voltages are better for higher power consumption systems that have standard appliances, irrigation pumps, back feeding the grid, …. This is where higher voltages fit the design curve.

 

[SupraSPL]

IIRC the first RN sailor recorded to have died from electric shock was killed by a "48V" bus-bar.

Apparently, he got trapped between the bars and had broken skin (reducing his body resistance), cooked slowly!

Take care with any 'lectric and remember all those amps lurking inside even a 12V pack.

Yeap if you have wounds that's a game changer. I felt a small jolt from a live telephone wire that poked through the skin and I believe that is 48V DC

 

[OffGridForGood]

I say, all the voltages are welcome at my place, come one come all, 12v, 24v, and 48v all live and co-exist in my shop, and get along (tip use different colours for the Anderson Plugs! yeah.
The large stationary system running my business (and my home next door) is 48v, and lower voltages were not going to cut it. But my large mobile is 24v and it is about the same as a 120v 20A source rolling around on wheels running anything a 20A plug can run. But it is a bit heavy, and sometimes I don't need 120-20A, sometimes 6-8Amps is enough.
So for those smaller tools, that don't need more than 8Amps - yup I have a 12v super mobile, can carry it easily anywhere set up and do 'stuff'.
It all depends what your needs are.

 

[ohmboy]

Building first system at 24V. Mainly cost. This build will be half the cost of a 48V system.

 

[J.H.]

I say, all the voltages are welcome at my place, come one come all, 12v, 24v, and 48v all live and co-exist in my shop, and get along (tip use different colours for the Anderson Plugs! yeah.
The large stationary system running my business (and my home next door) is 48v, and lower voltages were not going to cut it. But my large mobile is 24v and it is about the same as a 120v 20A source rolling around on wheels running anything a 20A plug can run. But it is a bit heavy, and sometimes I don't need 120-20A, sometimes 6-8Amps is enough.
So for those smaller tools, that don't need more than 8Amps - yup I have a 12v super mobile, can carry it easily anywhere set up and do 'stuff'.
It all depends what your needs are.

You are correct… what’s being suggested by some is like saying. “ no more 22LR ..ever” …

” no 9mm “ for nothing ….

use a 300 win mag for everything… that would be quite silly and expensive.

different needs would suggest different answers.

I have a small 12 volt set up in my shed for certain portable needs on my land, for jumping cars and equipment and outside 12v lights….had it for years… , a 24 volt main system on my mobile trailer system for powering the RV and bigger loads …

…and perhaps will have a 48V system one day if I build a new house up on the hill…..possibly by then higher voltage will be the cool way to go …

Who doesn’t remember when Mikita brought out the expensive ( Blue) 9.6 volt batt drill in the 80’s / 90’s … fantastic… game changers for working fast… and easy… at the boat yard we all thought they were a miracle when going up the mast to install stuff.

Soon no one wanted them as Dewalt came out with the 18v …then the XRP stuff ….and the others and others …and so on and so on……

Look where we are now with 60v+ batt powered table saws … maybe even more ….!
I don’t follow it much today.

Nothing is for very long anymore.. use what works for ya now..

A Lowly hillbilly opinion….J.

 

[JLD]

I have about the largest system that you would ever want to build in a 24v system. I have 4 Magnum ms4024 PAE stacked,
for a 16kw system with 122kwh battery and 29kw array. Ac coupled by transfer switch to either a 5k SMA OR 7.7 SMA that are
normally grid tied unless I need the extra power on cloudy days.

 

[Crowz]

I have both and its kinda handy.

The 48v powers my tp6048 which of course runs everything inside the house but the 12v system runs my workshop itself via a 12v inverter and powers my surveillance cameras, pi computers running solar assistant, several victron 12v battery chargers and a bunch more stuff.

Its nice that I can keep the pi's running even when I'm working on the 48v system too.

Now if I was starting from scratch it would be pure 48v but since I had a ton of 12v stuff from my old house it was a no brainer to use it like this.

 

[Kim Scott]

Greeting all,
Noticing lots of people here still think about building a new/huge system @ 12 or 24v
is it no debate that 48v is the only way to go ? it's everything better !
unless the new system is very small, sub 500w or upgrading from an even smaller one
Am I missing anything ?
happy harvesting ppl,

Switching to 48v for new or larger systems does offer numerous advantages in terms of efficiency and performance, particularly for setups exceeding 500w. The higher voltage reduces power loss, improves component compatibility, and enables more efficient energy storage solutions. While smaller systems may still find viability at 12 or 24v, transitioning to 48v presents a compelling case for maximizing effectiveness and minimizing long-term costs.

 

[MrThisIsME]

Greeting all,
Noticing lots of people here still think about building a new/huge system @ 12 or 24v
is it no debate that 48v is the only way to go ? it's everything better !
unless the new system is very small, sub 500w or upgrading from an even smaller one
Am I missing anything ?
happy harvesting ppl,

How many years from now, can you repost the same thing except replace 48v with 96v?

 

[Shimmy]

I am begrudgingly going to build a 12V system for a few 12V loads that need backup power. The reasons: EG4 Lifepower4 12V/400Ah is 20% less than 48V, a single 400W panel is all that is needed for charging, and it simplifies running the damn thing. (The load is only 30W, but I would like at least 4 days of backup.)

Doing it at 48V would mean I need to add a second panel (minimum, more likely 3 total), a 48:12V buck converter, an extra fuse... and some crap for RSD. Instead of a $1,500 or so project it quickly becomes a $3,000 effort, and it begs for never ending additional scope.

Functionally there is no need for this system to grow. It just powers the cable line amp, modem, and an IoTaWatt. Everything else will eventually be supported by a separate system.

 

[OffGridForGood]

You are correct… what’s being suggested by some is like saying. “ no more 22LR ..ever” …
different needs would suggest different answers.

My thought exactly, and as others noted, it can be handy to have a separate system to run lights and some tools while you work on a critical part of the main system. Generally my selections have been based on the trade off between capability and portability.
I should get an even smaller unit, 5v just for phone/tablet/small devices charging from a window sill.

 

[seneysolar]

Aims Power has a 360vdc hybrid inverter with battery storage... what are all you guys waiting for??

 

[sunsurfer]

I have a pretty hefty 12v system. Deals on really good inverters sucked me in. I also have a 24v system. I am going 48v next but will keep the 12v and 24v.

You can do really well on 12v if you design it right and don't try to live like your on the grid. The seemless grid like experience would be difficult with 12v, you have to manage your power usage to make it work well.

12v got me into solar with tinkering. I may never have gone off-grid without starting with 12v.

 

[sunsurfer]

Something I always consider is not so much the volts but how many amps will be going through the front end of the inverter under loads. More amps is harder on gear and requires more parts and stronger better parts. The idea of increasing the voltage is not so much to save a few dollars on copper wiring from the batts, but to lower the current going through the driver stage in the inverter. The amps are the problem. Am I wrong here?

 

[TimE]

We are on a sailboat. It's a 24v boat. Made no sense to build 12v lithium batteries but total sense to build 24v batteries. That's what we did. 2x24v lithium gives us some redundancy. The starter motor is 24v so we have a pair of lead batteries in series for that. Having everything at 24v makes life so much easier. 24v is great as lots of kit about from trucks. Led lights are readily available at 24v.

 

[J.H.]

The difference is, 12V is nigh impossible to cause shock injury, 48V needs little to be deadly. Sure, it is safe under most conditions, but tired, mistakes, in a hot room, and it can be deadly.

As long as you treat it with respect, it is very hard to die from a 48V dc system, but it CAN happen.
Use safety, don’t die.

Speaking of 12 volt shocks ……? Perhaps you will know what happened..

A basic 3 burner Atwood propane stove with oven . It has a sparker/ lighter knob you turn that lights the gas burner you turn on. Everyone has one at some point…
It stopped working a while back..?? Wouldn't spark..…

I raised the top cover and discovered it was sparking but not at the burner but as the wires had aged and had slight cracks in the insulation it was arcing out the cracks where it lay on the metal everything is mounted on under the top cover .

I picked one wire up and turned the knob and it made me flinch from head to toe.. totally involuntary jerking …even my feet kicked…

Well , being sort of hard headed and a curious person, I just had to do it a few more times…mainly to see if I could resist the muscle jerks …NOPE ……it doesn’t hurt but it can’t be resisted…it is a significant response.

right fingers holds the wire and left fingers turns the stove knob..standing in rubber shoes and touching nothing else….The whole body feels like when the Dr taps yer knee with that hammer thing….You can’t not kick your foot.

Question..? Where is the electricity coming from….? A piezo sparker …? Somthing else…?
I’m unaware of any wires hooked up to the RV or 12V batteries……? I’m baffled ……

What voltage could this be.. how can this even be a real thing…

J.

 

[Zwy]

so why not 48 now, then to 72 or 96 if needed

Charging from alternators much easier with 24V than 48V in my opinion. Then when converting back down to 12V such as lighting circuits in a RV/Camper/Trailer.

 

[Zwy]

I often wondered why cars never went to 32-36 volt..

Light bulbs at higher voltages driving down the road would fail fairly quickly. Now with LED, might not be as large of a problem.

The second reason given was rain/ice/snow. A wire run at 12V submerged in saltwater can function a long time, with higher voltages like 36V it will fail much quicker.

But in the same breath a lot of people had cars that ran at 6 volt and they starters and lights and radio worked and no one complained.

Until it was -20°F. Lights were dimmer too.

 

[Zwy]

Speaking of 12 volt shocks ……? Perhaps you will know what happened..

A basic 3 burner Atwood propane stove with oven . It has a sparker/ lighter knob you turn that lights the gas burner you turn on. Everyone has one at some point…
It stopped working a while back..?? Wouldn't spark..…

I raised the top cover and discovered it was sparking but not at the burner but as the wires had aged and had slight cracks in the insulation it was arcing out the cracks where it lay on the metal everything is mounted on under the top cover .

I picked one wire up and turned the knob and it made me flinch from head to toe.. totally involuntary jerking …even my feet kicked…

Well , being sort of hard headed and a curious person, I just had to do it a few more times…mainly to see if I could resist the muscle jerks …NOPE ……it doesn’t hurt but it can’t be resisted…it is a significant response.

right fingers holds the wire and left fingers turns the stove knob..standing in rubber shoes and touching nothing else….The whole body feels like when the Dr taps yer knee with that hammer thing….You can’t not kick your foot.

Question..? Where is the electricity coming from….? A piezo sparker …? Somthing else…?
I’m unaware of any wires hooked up to the RV or 12V batteries……? I’m baffled ……

What voltage could this be.. how can this even be a real thing…

J.

Go grab one of the ignition wires from your car while it is running and see if it feels the same.

12V won't jump the gap for electronic ignition, it needs a secondary circuit to up the volts.

 

[Supervstech]

Speaking of 12 volt shocks ……? Perhaps you will know what happened..

A basic 3 burner Atwood propane stove with oven . It has a sparker/ lighter knob you turn that lights the gas burner you turn on. Everyone has one at some point…
It stopped working a while back..?? Wouldn't spark..…

I raised the top cover and discovered it was sparking but not at the burner but as the wires had aged and had slight cracks in the insulation it was arcing out the cracks where it lay on the metal everything is mounted on under the top cover .

I picked one wire up and turned the knob and it made me flinch from head to toe.. totally involuntary jerking …even my feet kicked…

Well , being sort of hard headed and a curious person, I just had to do it a few more times…mainly to see if I could resist the muscle jerks …NOPE ……it doesn’t hurt but it can’t be resisted…it is a significant response.

right fingers holds the wire and left fingers turns the stove knob..standing in rubber shoes and touching nothing else….The whole body feels like when the Dr taps yer knee with that hammer thing….You can’t not kick your foot.

Question..? Where is the electricity coming from….? A piezo sparker …? Somthing else…?
I’m unaware of any wires hooked up to the RV or 12V batteries……? I’m baffled ……

What voltage could this be.. how can this even be a real thing…

J.

The spark gap equates to about 10,000V per 3mm gap...
So... most stoves spark 4 gaps simultaneously... so 40,000V...

Hurts dont it... dont do that.

 

[J.H.]

The spark gap equates to about 10,000V per 3mm gap...
So... most stoves spark 4 gaps simultaneously... so 40,000V...

Hurts dont it... dont do that.

Thanks…