Wondering why're many people still building 12/24v system ?

[new off grid]

Greeting all,
Noticing lots of people here still think about building a new/huge system @ 12 or 24v
is it no debate that 48v is the only way to go ? it's everything better !
unless the new system is very small, sub 500w or upgrading from an even smaller one
Am I missing anything ?
happy harvesting ppl,

 

[David in nh]

its a trap you start building a 12v system . thinking you are only going to use it for emergency's
you know a few 12v lights and rv stuff .
then once you hooked , it builds slowly until you look at it and say what the heck have done

 

[new off grid]

its a trap you start building a 12v system . thinking you are only going to use it for emergency's
you know a few 12v lights and rv stuff .
then once you hooked , it builds slowly until you look at it and say what the heck have done

So most RV folks got to stick with 12v with huge amp/cables to deal with ?

 

[Mattb4]

Greeting all,
Noticing lots of people here still think about building a new/huge system @ 12 or 24v
is it no debate that 48v is the only way to go ? it's everything better !
unless the new system is very small, sub 500w or upgrading from a even smaller one
Am I missing anything ?
happy harvesting ppl,

Use cases exist for the different battery voltages. Even 48vDC as a standard may be replaced in the near future with much higher voltages.

 

[new off grid]

Use cases exist for the different battery voltages. Even 48vDC as a standard may be replaced in the near future with much higher voltages.

so why not 48 now, then to 72 or 96 if needed

 

[Dooug]

RVs can be tricky. Many small RVs cant fit enough Solar to runs 48 volt system. The large ones that can, have to run 2 or 3 48/12/30 amp converters to run jacks and levelling systems. But can run panels in series make 48v work.

I'm running 24 volts, easier to convert back down to 12 for jacks. I have one 330 watt panel so far, with plans to add some small panels but will never exceed 40 volts of solar. Hoping to fit another 3-400 watts of mixed small panels on the truck camper roof.

 

[new off grid]

RVs can be tricky. Many small RVs cant fit enough Solar to runs 48 volt system. The large ones that can, have to run 2 or 3 48/12/30 amp converters to run jacks and levelling systems. But can run panels in series make 48v work.

I'm running 24 volts, easier to convert back down to 12 for jacks. I have one 330 watt panel so far, with plans to add some small panels but will never exceed 40 volts of solar. Hoping to fit another 3-400 watts of mixed small panels on the truck camper roof.

good to know
it's time to up standard for RV's electrical system
thx friend,

 

[Sparks-n-Splinters]

Greeting all,
Noticing lots of people here still think about building a new/huge system @ 12 or 24v
is it no debate that 48v is the only way to go ? it's everything better !
unless the new system is very small, sub 500w or upgrading from an even smaller one
Am I missing anything ?
happy harvesting ppl,

For my wife and I the choice to build a 12v system comes down to simplicity of life. We both prefer to be outdoors, and our electrical needs are a fraction of what is considered normal in the world today. We spend weeks enjoying tent camping with a portable 200w panels / 100 ah system that actually exceeds our needs.
The system we are designing for our new property will be 12v. It can power everything we need, so I see no point in calculating losses of inverters... blah, blah, blah..... Reading through the forums here, what stands out to me is the issues and frustrations with AIO's and inverters, along with buggy firmware updates. Sounds like a lot of headaches I don't want.
To each their own I suppose. It took lots of planning, fore thought and finding exactly what we needed in a property as far as lay of the land vs. building site, and natural resources to off set power needs.

 

[new off grid]

way to go friend
less demand. small system, make sense
but others building a big, 5kw plus is another story

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

I started with 12v, and upgraded to 24v since al I needed to do was add two more AGM batteries. Easier on the wallet than going 48v with a single battery, as I have read 12v in series is not a great idea for 48v use. Small 2k system though, if I expand then I will consider selling everything and getting 48v equipment.

 

[Mattb4]

way to go friend
less demand. small system, make sense
but others building a big, 5kw plus is another story

Sorta depends on how many inverters, PV and the battery bank capacity. My system is 24vDC. I run 2-3kW AIO's at 120vAC to 2-separate manual transfer control panels that handles the majority of my home loads, so 6kW. My battery bank is approaching 15kWh and my 3 PV Arrays are 4000w. I could easily add another inverter to this for dedicated 240vAC loads.

 

[seneysolar]

I love my 24V system. Wouldn't change a thing.

If youre not using LFP batteries it gets expensive to go 48V.

 

[OzSolar]

The system we are designing for our new property will be 12v. It can power everything we need, so I see no point in calculating losses of inverters... blah, blah, blah..... Reading through the forums here, what stands out to me is the issues and frustrations with AIO's and inverters, along with buggy firmware updates. Sounds like a lot of headaches I don't want.

Your comment echo's something I've observed over my years of dabbling into this and helping others set up or keep thier systems going. Until recently, I was a self employed electrical contractor for that last some odd 30 years.

Part of what I did was solar, mostly off grid. During that time I bumped into many people with impossible systems. What I mean is that "on paper" they didn't have enough system but somehow they were getting along just fine. My point is that a lot people adjust and get by with whatever size system they have.

Still I do think that folks really should start off with 48v whenever possible.

 

[new off grid]

Your comment echo's something I've observed over my years of dabbling into this and helping others set up or keep thier systems going. Until recently, I was a self employed electrical contractor for that last some odd 30 years.

Part of what I did was solar, mostly off grid. During that time I bumped into many people with impossible systems. What I mean is that "on paper" they didn't have enough system but somehow they were getting along just fine. My point is that a lot people adjust and get by with whatever size system they have.

Still I do think that folks really should start off with 48v whenever possible.

that's exactly friend,
48 is way to go for the new build, unless impossible

 

[new off grid]

Sorta depends on how many inverters, PV and the battery bank capacity. My system is 24vDC. I run 2-3kW AIO's at 120vAC to 2-separate manual transfer control panels that handles the majority of my home loads, so 6kW. My battery bank is approaching 15kWh and my 3 PV Arrays are 4000w. I could easily add another inverter to this for dedicated 240vAC loads.

kindda load you got there
when did you build your system ?
good to hear it's still handle your needs well

 

[Primal1]

For my wife and I the choice to build a 12v system comes down to simplicity of life. We both prefer to be outdoors, and our electrical needs are a fraction of what is considered normal in the world today. We spend weeks enjoying tent camping with a portable 200w panels / 100 ah system that actually exceeds our needs.
The system we are designing for our new property will be 12v. It can power everything we need, so I see no point in calculating losses of inverters... blah, blah, blah..... Reading through the forums here, what stands out to me is the issues and frustrations with AIO's and inverters, along with buggy firmware updates. Sounds like a lot of headaches I don't want.
To each their own I suppose. It took lots of planning, fore thought and finding exactly what we needed in a property as far as lay of the land vs. building site, and natural resources to off set power needs.

I could not agree more! My wife and I just upgraded to 200ah of LiFePO4 after 5 years on 215ah of lead acid. We have 400 watts of panels. The. Idea was to be 100 percent off grid and self reliant. So far so good.. We run a knife making and sheath and holster business on the same 12v system. I'm astonished at what some people think they need.

 

[Sparks-n-Splinters]

Your comment echo's something I've observed over my years of dabbling into this and helping others set up or keep thier systems going. Until recently, I was a self employed electrical contractor for that last some odd 30 years.

Part of what I did was solar, mostly off grid. During that time I bumped into many people with impossible systems. What I mean is that "on paper" they didn't have enough system but somehow they were getting along just fine. My point is that a lot people adjust and get by with whatever size system they have.

Still I do think that folks really should start off with 48v whenever possible.

My career was in building restoration and maintenance/ land management. I do agree with you regarding the impossible systems. After all my years fixing/ maintaining others assets, my aim was the middle ground. A simple system that performs with little maintenance or user input accented by natural resources of the right piece of land. Thankfully today's technology makes it a reality.

 

[Sparks-n-Splinters]

I could not agree more! My wife and I just upgraded to 200ah of LiFePO4 after 5 years on 215ah of lead acid. We have 400 watts of panels. The. Idea was to be 100 percent off grid and self reliant. So far so good.. We run a knife making and sheath and holster business on the same 12v system. I'm astonished at what some people think they need.

Glad to hear it! I bet the upgrade in the batteries made life even better!

 

[Mattb4]

kindda load you got there
when did you build your system ?
good to hear it's still handle your needs well

My average daily load is 7-10kWh so long as I stick to burning wood for heat. I have built up my system over the last few years.

 

[zyxwvu44]

My trailer is half 12volt. I need lights, USB ports, jack, brakes, fridge, stereo, slides, thermostats, awnings, all in 12 volt. It doesn't make sense to need to buy multiple 48 to 12v converters to run or start these things and then constantly have the inefficiency there.

At some point I may want to run a/c off solar and then it would make sense....but that's a lot of problems and cost to be introduced for only air conditioning.

 

[murmeister]

...the issues and frustrations with AIO's and inverters, along with buggy firmware updates. Sounds like a lot of headaches I don't want.

I'm going through just this problem right now. While I admire your solution (and the buy-in from your wife!), my needs are beyond a simple 12v system. I could do without the AIO headache, though.

 

[SupraSPL]

I use a small 12V system and a medium 24V system. The house has been running on the 12V to 3000W inverter for the last few days including some cooking, hot water and laundry.

12v or 24V you can touch and work on, probably even with wet hands. 58.4V you can probably still touch with dry hands. But if we go above that we need more expensive parts and nothing can be "exposed".

12V/24V components are plentiful and cheap. Many devices are compatible with 24V and even more 12V. A length of 2/0 or 4/0 between battery and inverter is a one-time investment and will never lose it's value so I don't mind spending $100 on cable. An 8S 24V 300Ah LifePO4 is 100LBS so I can still move them around and stack them but a 16S 300Ah is 200LBS so probably has to be built on a shelf or in a cabinet. I don't know why that matters but it might be a consideration for some.

If you have a large home or a large family, 48V with large split phase inverter probably a no brainer. Youd spend less on MPPTs, BMS and cables, but less options when it comes to 48V inverters rn.

 

[Dagoth Ur Does Solar]

I use a small 12V system and a medium 24V system. The house has been running on the 12V to 3000W inverter for the last few days including some cooking, hot water and laundry.

12v or 24V you can touch and work on, probably even with wet hands. 58.4V you can probably still touch with dry hands. But if we go above that we need more expensive parts and nothing can be "exposed".

12V/24V components are plentiful and cheap. Many devices are compatible with 24V and even more 12V. A length of 2/0 or 4/0 between battery and inverter is a one-time investment and will never lose it's value so I don't mind spending $100 on cable. An 8S 24V 300Ah LifePO4 is 100LBS so I can still move them around and stack them but a 16S 300Ah is 200LBS so probably has to be built on a shelf or in a cabinet. I don't know why that matters but it might be a consideration for some.

If you have a large home or a large family, 48V with large split phase inverter probably a no brainer. Youd spend less on MPPTs, BMS and cables, but less options when it comes to 48V inverters rn.

As someone who built my first system on 12v even though it's designed to sit in a shed, I really would have rather gone with 48v.

It hurts to spend so much money on 4/0 wire when I could be spending a fraction of that if I'd put the extra few hundred up at first to buy a 48v AIO.

In my case, would have been way smarter to go with 48v, I think.

 

[murmeister]

I've been thinking about your lead-in question. After pondering for a while, I will admit that I originally thought 12V was the only way to go. It wasn't until I got more into this forum that I considered other options. Even then, I thought 48V was way beyond my comfort zone. It took a while before I came to terms with my own ignorance and realized that 48V systems were in my future. I ultimately did invest in a 48V system and I'm very happy I did so.

Perhaps others jump into systems and try to maintain their comfort zones (12V). Maybe they figure they'll learn/experience 48V somewhere down the line in the future. Maybe a person that is finally in a place in life to consider a DIY project has more experience in older techniques than newer ones and chooses the "proven path" for their own needs.

I make no judgement accordingly, I just offer this as a response to your opening question.

 

[kampto]

Some use cases where I still run 24 and 12v
1. Sheds and barns where you have one panel maybe 2 and a single battery for electric fence, a light, etc
2. 15 - 20yr old system where 24V was more popular and cant completely redo/purchase a 48v upgrade. (Although in the works)
3. Running available and cheap 12V components; DC bulbs, Automotive, ...
4. Pre LiFePO4 days, Affordable Lead acid came in 6V and 12V.