Xuba Electronics: DEAL - 280AH LiFePo4 cells. Purchase & Review

[Sgt Raven]

If these cells are not the EVE 280's that we have been looking at the specifications of, can someone please measure the cells and confirm if they are indeed the same measurements? Including the center to center terminal measurement? Thanks!

The best of my ability to measure them already built into a battery. it looks like the measurements for w/d/h are correct.
173.6mm x 71.5mm x 204.8mm (top of terminal pads) Looks to be correct.
I'm coming up with long ways to edge 42.2mm and to side 35.1mm for center of terminals.
BUT (If the 71.5mm is correct then 35.75mm should be that one.)
But that is a hard measurement to take under the conditions.

I guess I should claim +/- 0.5mm

That is the best I can do with my tools and eyes, but I'm not 100% sure on my ability to measure them.

 

[Sgt Raven]

Morning. When I checked my cells this morning they went up .001v lol. Anyway I fiddled with my knobs on the charger and noticed when I turned the amperage down the light changed from CV to CC, When I turned the amps back up it changed the light from CA to CV.
Also I'll ask again, what BMS do you use?
Thanks

Edit: Dang! I also discovered I have a faulty red wire lead. When I touched that it went from 6 to 8 amps then to 4 then to 6. so I have it bent under the ps and it's keeping it at 7.4A right now

When I did my initial charge, I had the cells in Parallel and charged them up to 3.65V. At that point I didn't have a BMS attached at all.

I'm using a 120A Smart BMS w/Bluetooth now.
I topped the battery off a couple of times before starting my big long test I'm currently running. But it wasn't that low when I did.
Once this test is over I'll use by big LA battery charger to fast charge them up to a point and finish it with my PS. That charger can throw 40-50A.
I just thought of this. I should run my big charger through my DC-DC/MPPT and let it control charging the battery.

As for your Red lead problem, are you using Banana Plugs or ring/spade terminals at the PS?

 

[LukeVader]

If these cells are not the EVE 280's that we have been looking at the specifications of, can someone please measure the cells and confirm if they are indeed the same measurements? Including the center to center terminal measurement? Thanks!

I think the specs are probably all the same, but just to clarify my measurements are:
70mm x 173mm wide
200 mm tall (edit- NOT including post bumps, just the blue casing)
Center of posts are about 87mm apart
Posts are about 43 to 45mm from the edge. Hard to measure with a metal tape.

 

[LukeVader]

I'm using a 120A Smart BMS w/Bluetooth now.
I topped the battery off a couple of times before starting my big long test I'm currently running. But it wasn't that low when I did.
Once this test is over I'll use by big LA battery charger to fast charge them up to a point and finish it with my PS. That charger can throw 40-50A.
I just thought of this. I should run my big charger through my DC-DC/MPPT and let it control charging the battery.

As for your Red lead problem, are you using Banana Plugs or ring/spade terminals at the PS?

Your BMS is this one then?

8.6US $ |Dykb Smart Bms 4s 12v 60a 80a 100a 120a Li-ion Lifepo4 Lithium Protection Board Balance High Current Bluetooth App Software Gprs - Battery Accessories & Charger Accessories - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

The leads are banana plug but they can also spin freely, there's a hole in it for probes I believe. I'm looking to buy these... one day prime shipping.

Cylewet 5Pcs 5mm Colorful Silicone Cable Banana Plug to Crocodile Alligator Clip Test Probe Multimeter Probe Test Lead Wire Cable 1M (Pack of 5) CLT1074 : Amazon.ca: Industrial & Scientific

Cylewet 5Pcs 5mm Colorful Silicone Cable Banana Plug to Crocodile Alligator Clip Test Probe Multimeter Probe Test Lead Wire Cable 1M (Pack of 5) CLT1074 : Amazon.ca: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.ca

 

[Sgt Raven]

Your BMS is this one then?

8.6US $ |Dykb Smart Bms 4s 12v 60a 80a 100a 120a Li-ion Lifepo4 Lithium Protection Board Balance High Current Bluetooth App Software Gprs - Battery Accessories & Charger Accessories - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

a.aliexpress.com

The leads are banana plug but they can also spin freely, there's a hole in it for probes I believe. I'm looking to buy these... one day prime shipping.

Cylewet 5Pcs 5mm Colorful Silicone Cable Banana Plug to Crocodile Alligator Clip Test Probe Multimeter Probe Test Lead Wire Cable 1M (Pack of 5) CLT1074 : Amazon.ca: Industrial & Scientific

Cylewet 5Pcs 5mm Colorful Silicone Cable Banana Plug to Crocodile Alligator Clip Test Probe Multimeter Probe Test Lead Wire Cable 1M (Pack of 5) CLT1074 : Amazon.ca: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.ca

View attachment 10817

I think that is the same BMS. Not sure which Chinese Company made mine.

You should be able to use Spade or Ring terminals on those posts, too. Those outer pieces should unscrew and come completely off to put Ring terminals on them.

 

[Sgt Raven]

I think the specs are probably all the same, but just to clarify my measurements are:
70mm x 173mm wide
200 mm tall
Center of posts are about 87mm apart
Posts are about 43 to 45mm from the edge. Hard to measure with a metal tape.

I think I got a little closer measurements than you did.
But I'm giving a +/- 0.5mm in mine as a fudge factor.
I have a good 30mm steel ruler and a set of 6" digital calipers I can set to mm.

 

[Steve_S]

NOT OFF TOPIC EH ?

 

[Sgt Raven]

Almost 6 days into my slow discharge test. Can it go a full week running my stuff? I got to go get my big battery charger out of my storage unit. Don't want to spend days and days charging it back up. Steve, I'm trying to stay on topic.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

My charger was normal lab charger, CC and CV.

I charged on cell at 3.6v and 3.5a.
12.6 watts was all it took......

No BMS, but pushing too high continuous Amperage will kill the cells.

Lead acid charger does the same!!
The phenomenal you see with your LA charger has (most times) nothing to with the charger but the way LA works.

In fact, charging the last 20% in lead acid takes the most energy, and is the least efficient.
(Overall LA loses 30% of the power during charging, lifepo4 3-5%)

But..LA needs to be full to have longest life cycle.
LA also self discharge quite a lot.
That's why your LA charger does tickle charging, or floating..

Just be careful!!
If you can not manually reduce the Amperage of your LA charger..
Stop at 3.35v.
Find other way to do the rest.

My cell was indeed overcharged.
Not too high voltage, not really too high current but in the last few % where the current should be dropped...
It didn't.
And apparently.. 3.5A is enough if you give it 10 hours on a cell.

Dropping current is really important.

My 2 cents over being or not being EVE cells.
Most products from China have unknown origin.
The ones who have "original" are mostly lying..
"Stealing" how to make something from different company is normal there, and making a good copy is seen as art.

"My hand painted Picasso was only 200 dollars" and yet...
It really looks great! It will take an art expect to tell the difference.
It looks a lot better then framed printout!

There are not a lot of factories who make the cells.

No matter who makes the cells, chemical they are lifepo4.

They will most likely do more cycles then lead acid, for really the price of LA. (And lower)

Will they have after 2000 cycles 80% capacity left?
Probably not.
Will they make 2000 cycles before you need to replace them?
Probably yes.

That's triple the cycle life of LA for the costs of LA.

So..
It ain't a real Picasso.
They work great!

Capacity is correct.
Cycle life.. Time will tell.
As long as they do last longer then LA, they are worth every penny.
If only for charging efficiency.
25% better, is 25% more usable power from your solar panels
(Who probably are also from China and several times re-branded)

Many people forget that LA is efficiency wise CRAP.
It's just wide available and cheap.
The Edison batteries are on the long run better then LA, only more heavy, larger, and at start more expensive.
They last +35 years.....

(If I knew about them, I probably would have bought those and not 16*200ah LA deep cycle.. who are now dead due defective EASUN MPPT that charged at 19.55v per battery, 78v on 48v system)

Now the 48x 152ah replacement Lifepo4 are waiting for the BMS.
And still using what ever power is left in de LA.

All those costs...
I could have purchased Edison, and a few extra panels to compensate for the lower efficiency...

If I only had known...
Then the 4500 on LA and 3000 on Lifepo4 (+BMS and balancer) would have been spent different.

 

[Sgt Raven]

My charger was normal lab charger, CC and CV.

I charged on cell at 3.6v and 3.5a.
12.6 watts was all it took......

No BMS, but pushing too high continuous Amperage will kill the cells.

Lead acid charger does the same!!
The phenomenal you see with your LA charger has (most times) nothing to with the charger but the way LA works.

In fact, charging the last 20% in lead acid takes the most energy, and is the least efficient.
(Overall LA loses 30% of the power during charging, lifepo4 3-5%)

But..LA needs to be full to have longest life cycle.
LA also self discharge quite a lot.
That's why your LA charger does tickle charging, or floating..

Just be careful!!
If you can not manually reduce the Amperage of your LA charger..
Stop at 3.35v.
Find other way to do the rest.

My cell was indeed overcharged.
Not too high voltage, not really too high current but in the last few % where the current should be dropped...
It didn't.
And apparently.. 3.5A is enough if you give it 10 hours on a cell.

Dropping current is really important.

My 2 cents over being or not being EVE cells.
Most products from China have unknown origin.
The ones who have "original" are mostly lying..
"Stealing" how to make something from different company is normal there, and making a good copy is seen as art.

"My hand painted Picasso was only 200 dollars" and yet...
It really looks great! It will take an art expect to tell the difference.
It looks a lot better then framed printout!

There are not a lot of factories who make the cells.

No matter who makes the cells, chemical they are lifepo4.

They will most likely do more cycles then lead acid, for really the price of LA. (And lower)

Will they have after 2000 cycles 80% capacity left?
Probably not.
Will they make 2000 cycles before you need to replace them?
Probably yes.

That's triple the cycle life of LA for the costs of LA.

So..
It ain't a real Picasso.
They work great!

Capacity is correct.
Cycle life.. Time will tell.
As long as they do last longer then LA, they are worth every penny.
If only for charging efficiency.
25% better, is 25% more usable power from your solar panels
(Who probably are also from China and several times re-branded)

Many people forget that LA is efficiency wise CRAP.
It's just wide available and cheap.
The Edison batteries are on the long run better then LA, only more heavy, larger, and at start more expensive.
They last +35 years.....

(If I knew about them, I probably would have bought those and not 16*200ah LA deep cycle.. who are now dead due defective EASUN MPPT that charged at 19.55v per battery, 78v on 48v system)

Now the 48x 152ah replacement Lifepo4 are waiting for the BMS.
And still using what ever power is left in de LA.

All those costs...
I could have purchased Edison, and a few extra panels to compensate for the lower efficiency...

If I only had known...
Then the 4500 on LA and 3000 on Lifepo4 (+BMS and balancer) would have been spent different.

I don't know. That charger sure acts like Constant Voltage when used on LA. batteries. I've had it start at the full 40A and gone back and it dropped to 30A, 20A or 10A. But I'm not going to let it sit there and cook the battery. With 280AH batteries the half C rate is still way over 40A. Right now the BMS is set to stop at 3.55V per cell. I could adjust that down, too. Also I'll check the voltage output when I first turn it on. If it's too high then I could run it thru my DC-DC/MPPT and let it regulate the charging.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

Seeing the current drop and voltage rising is due to the chemistry of the LA.

Thanks to Battery university:

The lead acid battery uses the constant current constant voltage (CCCV) charge method. A regulated current raises the terminal voltage until the upper charge voltage limit is reached, at which point the current drops due to saturation. The charge time is 12–16 hours and up to 36–48 hours for large stationary batteries

You don't have to worry about the C rate, with 280Ah lifepo4 you need to go above 140A to come even close to any dangerous level.

It's totally up to you.
My Batteries where about 98% full at 3.4v. (!!) Yes, tested with capacity tester.
3.4v gave 146.71ah discharge, fist cycle.
Apparently lifepo4 need a few cycles to get to full capacity.
96.5% is good for first cycle of a 152Ah battery.

I thought that it was necessary to reach the magic 3.65 as I'm used to lead acid:
12.7/12.8 is full.
12.5 is 80%

Lifepo4 is different !!!
3.35 is +/-95%,
3.4 +/-98%.
3.65 100%

Some sites say at 3.45v the cells are already at 99%
(Interesting read about charging lifepo4)

Lifecycle on 80-95% is roughly 50% higher.
It really is better to "undercharge" lifepo4 and while it can be empty, it is better to keep 5-15% charged.

For me, I stop at 3.35 average cell voltage, and stop at 2.7 discharge.
That will give me about 80% battery usage and longer lifespan.

Unless you are absolutely sure your charger will reduce the current during charge...
Keep a close eye on it!!

I lost one cell, and have replaced it.
It's not dead, but have lower capacity left.
Still usable for different project, no longer for battery array.

I hate to see you lose 4 or more cells!!

 

[Sgt Raven]

Seeing the current drop and voltage rising is due to the chemistry of the LA.

...snip for brevity....

I hate to see you lose 4 or more cells!!

I don't want to load this thread up with slightly off topic posts.
I need to see how far the Bluetooth on the BMS will reach.
See if I can watch the battery from my computer location.

 

[Steve_S]

Direct from Amy @ Xuba this morning.

About QR code, I contacted EVE factory today. Their reply is: scan the QR code on the battery with a mobile phone, and a string of code composed of letters and numbers will appear, which is used for marking inside their factory, Buyers can also use this code to contact the factory and ask them to check whether it is genuine.

EVE's official website:

EVE Energy Co.，Ltd.

en.evebattery.com

 

[John Frum]

"Buyers can also use this code to contact the factory and ask them to check whether it is genuine."
I'm thinking that buyers should do this upon delivery.

 

[Steve_S]

"Buyers can also use this code to contact the factory and ask them to check whether it is genuine."
I'm thinking that buyers should do this upon delivery.

I have made contact with EVE and working on this... so everyone relax and stay calm.

 

[John Frum]

I have made contact with EVE and working on this... so everyone relax and stay calm.

Let me rephrase.
I am calm but I would do this as a matter of course up front... not down the road.

 

[LukeVader]

Steve, just to clarify, contact EVE with the QR code or the "string of code compromised of letters and numbers"?

Edit: I just sent them an email at sales@evebattery.com with all my QR code pictures. We'll see what they say. Let's hope they say, yeah those are our grade a cells we just made last month.

 

[Steve_S]

Well if everyone is going to spam the vendors & suppliers you won't like the result.
Good Luck with that that, hope it works out for ya.

 

[LukeVader]

???? You said contact them. I contacted the factory (supplier) like YOU posted to do. Now you're saying I won't like the result?? I can't keep up with your train of thought. I'm out.

 

[rbreding]

Definitely no need for all of us to start making contact until we have at least one report back.

Got my pictures and video today from Amy. Off they go to the boat!

 

[John Frum]

Definitely no need for all of us to start making contact until we have at least one report back.

Got my pictures and video today from Amy. Off they go to the boat!

A spate of requests to the manufacturer/distributors will send the industry a message that the consumer is not confident.
Hopefully they will see that as a sign that they need to police themselves.
QR codes are good for the industry because consumer confidence is good for the industry.

UPDATE:
QR codes that people have confidence in are good for the industry.

 

[Mars]

I don't want to load this thread up with slightly off topic posts.
I need to see how far the Bluetooth on the BMS will reach.
See if I can watch the battery from my computer location.

If you don't want to post off topic THEN DONT! This is not "slightly off topic", it is TOTALLY OFF TOPIC.

I am trying to find information about 280 Amp Hr cells from XUBA but there is so much off topic crap in this thread that finding the information I need is very frustrating.

 

[legacyturbo]

I wrote to EVE @ Alibaba some weeks ago and ask this:
"
Hi,
Maybe you can help me. I bought some Lifepo4 Cells 280AH EVE from this Dealer https://shandian.m.en.alibaba.com/?wx_navbar_transparent=true&tracelog=sns_minisite
Do you now this Company?
Thanks for your answer."

And they answered: see screenshot
Think the answer would be the same if i ask for XUBA. Dont understand why they do so mysterious.

 

[Sgt Raven]

If you don't want to post off topic THEN DONT! This is not "slightly off topic", it is TOTALLY OFF TOPIC.

I am trying to find information about 280 Amp Hr cells from XUBA but there is so much off topic crap in this thread that finding the information I need is very frustrating.

I've been posting about my discharge test of the XUBA cells I bought. If you don't want to know scroll right on by, or put me on ignore.

 

[Delta-V]

Update! Relay attempt and another capacity test.

Relay
I made an attempt to use an Opto 22 Sold State Relay (SSR) with a cheap 15A BMS (8s 24V). Apparently, I didn't hook it up right. I was trying to figure out how to get it to shut off my new Samlex 4000W low-frequency inverter. The Opto 22 started smoking bad, then a loud pop with a piece of plastic flying off of it. There's a $22 lesson learned, ha ha.

As an alternative, I have a 40A 24V electro-magnetic automotive relay. But, I still had trouble trying to connect it to the inverter. The inverter has so many features and configurations, it's not clear how to set it up.

Later, I was reading the inverter manual and discovered the inverter has it's own low-voltage alarm & shutdown (cut off) feature. So, I don't need a relay. RTFM, ha ha.

Capacity Test
I ran another capacity test (2nd test with 1st half of cells (8 of 16 cells - two 24V packs)). I kept the small 15A BMS connected to the battery, but did not have the inverter connected to it (Inverter connected directly to battery). I ended up disconnecting the automotive relay as it was just getting hot and seemingly wasting power. I didn't have the relay switch wires go to anything. It looks like the BMS does not balance when nothing is connected to the P- wire.

Anyway, after getting past the relay issue, my next goal was to figure out how to use the middle 80% capacity of the battery. For this test, I charged the battery to 28V absorb charge, set the low-voltage alarm to 25V, and low-voltage cut-off (shutdown) to 24V.

8 cells @ 280Ah x 25.6V = 7,168Wh (24V nominal)

My thinking was to see about getting 80% of 7,168Wh = 5,734Wh
or
80% of 280Ah = 224Ah

Wanted to get a better feel for ideal upper & lower voltage settings.

1st Pic - The voltage started quickly dropping once I turned the inverter on
2nd Pic - Met the 80% Wh (5,758Wh @ 221Ah @ 25.51V), cells staying somewhat balanced
3rd Pic - 24.2V inverter low-voltage alarm beeps on & off, cells less balanced
4th Pic - Inverter shut itself off at 24V, continuous beep for 30 seconds (I set it to 30 sec) then it shut off, a quick drop from 24.2V in 4 minutes
5th Pic - I let the battery set a couple hours, shows cell recover voltage, still a little out of balance

What's interesting is the 3 meters all show slightly different voltages amongst each other.

Final Result
Beginning to end capacity usage: 28V (3.5V cell) to 24V (3V cell)
272Ah = 97% of 280Ah
7,041Wh = 98% of 7,168Wh

I ended up changing the low-voltage alarm from 25V to 24.2V as it kept beeping as it teetered between 24.9V to 25.1V since I wasn't discharging much, less than 700W at any given time (Refrigerator and home office stuff). It took like another hour or so to get to the 24.2V warning.

I'll do a similar test with my 2nd half of 8 cells. Probably go with 27V to 25V just to see how it compares.

I'm also curious to do a test to see where the quick voltage drop-offs are and set the upper & lower voltage limits to the edges of these drop-offs to see how it compares.