Will, your current video "Quick Morning Rant: Chinese VS American Solar Products"

[alfaeric]

The problem is far larger than what you imply....

Enderes tools.... Used to be my "go to" tool company. I'd even been by their plant in Minnesota (worked as a iron worker there for a year). But then they moved most of that to...you guessed it...China... I stopped buying cause their tools went "soft"....

The problem/solution has ALWAYS been at the consumers/purchasers feet. Always.

I really know to avoid conversations like this though.... Will hit it on the head, you just can't beat lazy when its subsidized by the Government.

Dude, China is a Communist country. The ultimate of subsidized.

It's pretty amusing to me for large companies to complain about technology requirements for China, when they were willing to give it to them just to get the cheap labor in the 90s and early 00's. If we want to blame anyone, blame the greedy corporations who could not see the obvious problems in the long term of moving to China for cheap labor- 1) giving them technology (as required) was a loosing proposition and 2) the combination of wage growth and shipping costs is going to negate that cost advantage pretty quickly (which it has). Now we are in a position that it's going to cost money starting a factory here for many reasons.... This was going to happen, and was obvious from the start.

Still, my core point- who is planning on a local startup for solar or batteries, or are you relying on someone else to do it?

 

[NwCali]

If that's what you really think, it's just throwing more blame around. I've been an engineer for almost 30 years, and see plenty of lazy incompetent fit people as hard working skilled overweight people. Throwing labels around like that isn't really helping at all.

We want to fix engineering in the US, right? Tell me how complaining about overweight people fixes that.

Did I ever say a lazy person could not be skinny?

I said you won't find hard working competent fat people. You can call it a label... some of us call it reality.

I don't "want" to fix any of it... When you've social engineered it to this depth the only fix is unstoppable but damn if it won't have its own price. Sad part the deeper we went, the more they believed they could social engineer the fix.

 

[Wibla]

I said you won't find hard working competent fat people. You can call it a label... some of us call it reality.

I feel sorry for you if this is your honest perception of reality.

 

[alfaeric]

Did I ever say a lazy person could not be skinny?

I said you won't find hard working competent fat people. You can call it a label... some of us call it reality.

I don't "want" to fix any of it... When you've social engineered it to this depth the only fix is unstoppable but damn if it won't have its own price. Sad part the deeper we went, the more they believed they could social engineer the fix.

I have. Plenty of them. It's not a factor.

And it's funny that you don't "want" to fix any of it- what do you want to do, then? Just complain? And blame everyone else? Isn't that what was ranted about in the first place?

 

[alfaeric]

with enough intelligence and experience you realize that no one person can "fix" this.

Sad thing is I know better than to get into discussions like this.... I know the fix is slowly coming at us, and no social engineer can stop it.

What do I want? To get my solar up and running, to grow as much of my own food as I can, to teach my kids how to do all of this, and to let the rest of the world do what its going to do cause their isn't a darn thing I can do to stop it.

That was the best part of Biden being elected. He's anti "green". Anti minority. Pro War. And was voted in by the part who claimed to be against all those things to push out a person who in actual policy was better on some of those things that Biden would/could ever be.

Meh, I'd like to thank the forums on helping me put together a solar system. Its what I came here for. Only a fool thinks the rest is fixable.

Will nicked it on the head though...a glancing blow

One person may not be able to "fix" it, but they can do *something* other than complain about it.

All this thread is doing is hoping that someone else can fix a concern people have. Nothing else. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but expecting someone else to do *something* is a recipe for nothing happening. Your personal solution is very personal, which is fine, but isn't going to contribute what so ever to the greater issue.

The fact that social issues are being constantly brought up is just a distraction to blame.

Curious what is stopping people from starting a small business in the solar industry- it's not as if there's not a good demand for products right now....

 

[noenegdod]

One person may not be able to "fix" it, but they can do *something* other than complain about it.

All this thread is doing is hoping that someone else can fix a concern people have. Nothing else. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but expecting someone else to do *something* is a recipe for nothing happening. Your personal solution is very personal, which is fine, but isn't going to contribute what so ever to the greater issue.

The fact that social issues are being constantly brought up is just a distraction to blame.

Curious what is stopping people from starting a small business in the solar industry- it's not as if there's not a good demand for products right now....

One person on their own can not fix the crap storm north america has made for itself, period. That is like one person trying to fight the tide. Its a waste of effort. To actually do something takes organization and collective action. One person could start the movement, that is reasonable and practical but starting a small business isnt going to do anything in terms of actually making a "difference".

Social issues are not the cause of the rapidly declining american position on the global stage, they are just another symptom of the pathetic mind set and greedy business practices that the american people have allowed their politicians to establish as the norm. North american society at large is to blame because we elect politicians and then turn our back for 4 years while they do what they want while we get back to eating mcdonalds and sticking our noses to the grindstone or wake and bake and sit on the couch playing video games.

North american culture is pathetic. Change the culture and there is a chance things may turn around in our lifetimes if not we are headed for hard times:

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”

G. Michael Hopf,

We are at the tail end of the good times if collectively we dont quit being so pathetic and toughen up.

 

[rhino]

I consider SpaceX to be a good example of American engineering and inventiveness. You also have to be a US citizen to work there.

 

[Steve_S]

I consider SpaceX to be a good example of American engineering and inventiveness. You also have to be a US citizen to work there.

And STILL the only Rocket Company that can land & reuse rockets... I still remember the folks at NASA , Boeing and ALL other rocket makers worldwide saying that it was Impossible... Even insisting it was impossible with many even betting against Space-X in the stock market... did they learn an expensive lesson or what....

 

[noenegdod]

I consider SpaceX to be a good example of American engineering and inventiveness. You also have to be a US citizen to work there.

Imaging what they could do in a climate that didnt cripple them.

 

[Will Prowse]

Lots of great points mentioned here, and I appreciate the input. I think the overall point that I really wanted to make is that people should not depend on others. Being able to self educate and work hard is ideal. I think self-reliance and a dose of skepticism can increase one's survival.

We can always debate what our societies problems are, and potential solutions, but if everyone focused on how they can make themselves better, stronger and more capable, we would all be better off. Mental and physical health is everything.

Imagine a world where people carry their own weight and push toward peak physical and mental health. That is the world I wish to live in.

As Gandi said, be the change you wish to see in the world. I think he has a point. Blaming china and getting mad at your neighbor does not solve problems. Working hard, working out and studying daily solves problems.

 

[G8trwood]

Stock profits for jobs has been a thing for a while. Union greed vs corporate greed, lol. Schools, media conditioning and “American exceptionalism “ that every parent and nut thinks they know more than folks who study fields for decades, and believe they have a right to their own way. Merging with blue collar jobs are bad, theatre degree good.

The whole we are a service economy….means you work for someone else (China).
If you don’t make crap you aren’t crap
Education, science, figure out how to make stuff that isn’t disposable and protect environment
Just an old man yelling at clouds here

 

[fat_old_sun]

Still, my core point- who is planning on a local startup for solar or batteries, or are you relying on someone else to do it?

I know of two small companies that tried to offer a few products in the is area and got out played by China. Both startups went to Kickstarter for initial funding, had good response in terms of funding. However, one or more china based companies beat them to the market- their marketing plans stolen. Both startups are trying again to bring new products, but now with private investors. There are several more instances of Kickstarter startups losing to China.

The US made a very bad strategic decision over 30 years ago - to move all manufacturing overseas, and, China benefitted.

 

[CaseyB]

I hear that “social science” factory down the street is hiring.

Excellent video Will.

 

[Steve_S]

The Single BIGGEST Reason for R&D, Manufacturing going OFF SHORE IS "Equity Investment Firms" They buy up companies & brands, amalgamate them and then the Bean Counters try to squeeze every fraction of a cent out of the companies & "consumers" with the Market Bears Pricing, which dictates that the price is set to the maximum amount the consumer will pay, regardless of cost or value. If a market does not bear that pricing, it is then lowered AND it is relative to the market. We can buy the exact same product, brand label, in different regions / countries for different prices because that is what "their market" will bear.

There are a LOT of Brands out there that USED TO BE independent individual companies but have all been bought up and managed by Large Equity Firms now. They only care about ONE Thing is Maximizing profit.

 

[noenegdod]

Imagine a world where people carry their own weight and push toward peak physical and mental health. That is the world I wish to live in.

It is sad that that is so difficult to imagine at this point. The victim olympics/intersectionality has made being weak and pathetic the "highest good". If you have a disability, you dont have to do anything, at all. "Dont worry, society will take care of you". If it doesnt do it just right we will rush to your aid and shame everyone in sight.

Im in Calgary AB. We built a new library here. It is beautiful. After it was done there was 1 (one) disabled person that was angry because it was not easy enough for her to get in. She could still get in, it just wasnt easy enough. It cost the tax payers over $100,000 to make the building more easily accessible for this one person. https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/much-her...nts-calgarians-with-mobility-issues-1.4177993

Does she have a disability, sure. Should society help her out? I guess so. Should her life be easy? Hell no. She can struggle like the rest of us.

 

[HRTKD]

I consult at a university. I touch many areas within it, so I see a lot of what's going on.
1. If you can't afford a college degree, you're not trying hard enough or you're trying to go to the wrong school. Financial aid is readily available. However, do you really want to be saddled with a huge amount of student debt? It depends on if the degree will help you get a job to pay it off.
2. Counterpoint to the above: Not everyone needs a degree.
3. Universities are horribly inefficient. The amount of non-classroom expense is huge! Universities seem to be trying to one up each other on how woke they are. Being woke, in my opinion, does not turn out a more qualified candidate for a career.

If I were to go back to school (very unlikely) I would look for a private, not a public, university.

I try to avoid buying Made in China when I can. But it's hard.

 

[TJ King]

We can always debate what our societies problems are, and potential solutions, but if everyone focused on how they can make themselves better, stronger and more capable, we would all be better off. Mental and physical health is everything.

Imagine a world where people carry their own weight and push toward peak physical and mental health. That is the world I wish to live in.

As Gandi said, be the change you wish to see in the world. I think he has a point. Blaming china and getting mad at your neighbor does not solve problems. Working hard, working out and studying daily solves problems.

Great points. Great video. We all make cost benefit analysis when we make economic decisions. This includes thinking through how our consumer choices benefit the ultimate manufacturer and or country. If we believe there is a benefit to our best interest, even if that means for our interest in our local or national community, that is a consideration that we factor in, but that is our own choice. When someone says categorically "I never buy Chinese, nor 'should' you",... first that is a lie. No American can fully avoid buying Chinese. Second the inclusion of the word "should" is a "Normative Economic" statement that includes moral values.

What I'm getting from Will's remarks is if your "Should" statement is intended to shame others into aligning with your moral worldview, and if the intended outcome is to NOT aid in strengthening a hegemonistic brutal regime overseas and in turn strengthen our nation, our communities and our system, there are other smarter ways to do it, than tossing out erroneous moral virtue signaling,.... and in a discussion group about engineering systems that are swimming in Chinese products that our nation is failing to compete in for all the reasons Will listed. Will talks about Action, not virtue signaling.

What we see on the nightly news is like watching our people bicker and fight over the Feng Shui of how the chairs on the Titanic are lined up. This is the point of worthless social issue related college degrees that wont mean crap when the Chinese roll over us as we bicker. Yes, we are each "responsible" for our personal economic choices when buying electronics, and we should all make a well thought out cost benefit analysis when we buy things, but obsessing on an unrealistic mantra, but ignoring the many other areas that also relate to personal responsibility, in areas that would make our own lives better and our nation and way of life better,... I think the answer is obvious. Great video.

 

[HighTechLab]

Who is going to start the small business that has the potential to grow into a big one?

I am!!! I am 22 and have no college degree, but I've learned SO MUCH from research on google, practical experience with the 4 jobs I've had, and so much more. When I was an employee making minimum wage, I put forth the effort as if I was making more than the highest paid guy in the shop. I was the shining star, moved up quickly, learned from the company owners, and now I'm putting all of this to practical use.

Everywhere I go I do everything I can to excel and learn something new...So 5 years out of high school I'm a business owner on track for a 7 figure year... In June, we did more work than we did in our entire first year. And it's not just about the money - along the way, we teach so many people what we've learned. When it comes to solar and batteries, the foundation of our business, I've learned a lot of this stuff the hard way. That's OK, it's great to learn from your mistakes!

And I too agree with Will...So much that I'm also literally doing what he says to do in the video. It's treating me well.

 

[fat_old_sun]

I am!!! I am 22 and have no college degree, but I've learned SO MUCH from research on google, practical experience with the 4 jobs I've had, and so much more. When I was an employee making minimum wage, I put forth the effort as if I was making more than the highest paid guy in the shop. I was the shining star, moved up quickly, learned from the company owners, and now I'm putting all of this to practical use.

Everywhere I go I do everything I can to excel and learn something new...So 5 years out of high school I'm a business owner on track for a 7 figure year... In June, we did more work than we did in our entire first year. And it's not just about the money - along the way, we teach so many people what we've learned. When it comes to solar and batteries, the foundation of our business, I've learned a lot of this stuff the hard way. That's OK, it's great to learn from your mistakes!

And I too agree with Will...So much that I'm also literally doing what he says to do in the video. It's treating me well.

Not really dismissing your accomplishments, but you're mostly reselling China sourced items. Of the batteries, cells, etc you sell, what fraction are US sourced? I made the 'mistake' of contacting a while back some suppliers in China on the 'Made in China' website. I still get 30-40 emails a day from so many chinese suppliers wanting me to carry their products. The point I'm making is that, reselling China sourced items in US/EU is not very difficult.

 

[Electric Night]

BTW: One thing Will is obviously NOT AWARE OF... Late 2000's early 2010's, Many US Companies sold their patents and such to Chinese Firms for Solar Panels and even Battery Tech. Some even moved from US to China. While many accused them of "Stealing" the tech, they have no clue that Chinese companies bought the base patents and then moved beyond them in a few short years.

They did because the Chineese government said either they share it for free to get access to China or they could sell the Patent and at least get some money for it. Since patents have a limited number of years selling them for something is better than giving them away for nothing, and the prospective companies retained a license to use as part of the agreements usually.